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Old 06-24-2012, 02:08 PM   #6646
rivercreep
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Question for Brett.

Since you had your bike torn apart some time ago....
Right on the same side as the oil filter (on top and in line with it) there's what looks to be a small plug.

I'm wondering if you got a look at that area from the inside out and if that "plug" is screwed in but has no external head to unscrew it.

I'm thinking it might be a port for an oil cooler line that might be used on another model in another country.

Where I'm not experiencing any signs of overheating, I can't help but wonder if a cooler wouldn't hurt. (if it's practical and easy)

Just thought I'd pick your brain since I respect your opinions. (usually!)
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #6647
NJ-Brett
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What year cb360?
Old Japanese bikes can be hard to find parts for.
A lot of them also had points and mechanical advances, which can be a real pain in the butt.
Most old bikes also had very poor lighting and low electrical power.

Honda was very fond of running the cams directly on the head, no bearings, so you would need a new head when they wore out.
Most old bike guys buy a bunch of used bikes, spare engines, etc, as you cant just order new parts.
They also tend to not put a lot of miles on the bikes.
I put a lot of miles on my Daytona, but I could get almost any part new, even after 40+ years.
Only gas tanks and fenders were rare.

I think I would love a late model sl350, looks like fun, but the exhaust is very hard to find, they all rusted out.
Also, I am not sure an old cb350/360 is much faster then the TU is, mine topped out at 90 mph, my worked xl250 did 90, and a friends 305 dream did about 80.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:42 PM   #6648
NJ-Brett
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That plug does connect to filtered high pressure oil (17 psi I think it is).
The big chrome nut under the oil filter is pressurized oil before the filter.
The plug at top might be there to allow the drilling of the oil passages.

I would not bother with an oil cooler, the bike seems to run better hot.

The highest I ever measured the oil temp ( beating the crap out of the bike for hours on a 100F day) was 182F.
If you worry about it, just run synthetic oil.
Mounts can break, hoses can leak, unless you need one, I think its better to not have one.
I put a lockhart on my old 79 Bonneville, with a thermostat, which helped when the bike was new, after it broke in it did not get much use. Maybe it did crossing the Mojave, it was 126F in the shade....
That bike held 4 quarts in the frame, a great (and easy to change) setup.
Drain out the bottom, fill hole and dip stick under the seat.





Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
Since you had your bike torn apart some time ago....
Right on the same side as the oil filter (on top and in line with it) there's what looks to be a small plug.

I'm wondering if you got a look at that area from the inside out and if that "plug" is screwed in but has no external head to unscrew it.

I'm thinking it might be a port for an oil cooler line that might be used on another model in another country.

Where I'm not experiencing any signs of overheating, I can't help but wonder if a cooler wouldn't hurt. (if it's practical and easy)

Just thought I'd pick your brain since I respect your opinions. (usually!)
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:03 PM   #6649
BenDanger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
What year cb360?
Old Japanese bikes can be hard to find parts for.
A lot of them also had points and mechanical advances, which can be a real pain in the butt.
Most old bikes also had very poor lighting and low electrical power.

Honda was very fond of running the cams directly on the head, no bearings, so you would need a new head when they wore out.
Most old bike guys buy a bunch of used bikes, spare engines, etc, as you cant just order new parts.
They also tend to not put a lot of miles on the bikes.
I put a lot of miles on my Daytona, but I could get almost any part new, even after 40+ years.
Only gas tanks and fenders were rare.

I think I would love a late model sl350, looks like fun, but the exhaust is very hard to find, they all rusted out.
Also, I am not sure an old cb350/360 is much faster then the TU is, mine topped out at 90 mph, my worked xl250 did 90, and a friends 305 dream did about 80.
I've only talked with the guy once, but he mentioned that he had worked some clever charging solution into the bike. New points.

But from what Google images is showing me, it looks like the camshaft does roll right on the head. Seems unthinkable. Also turned up that the 360 had a cam chain tensioner recall due to seizure. Still need to find out if this bike got a new tensioner. Wikipedia says the model only ran 3 years. Not encouraging.

My rationalization is that I could probably make a few bucks by selling it here in Chicago (the seller is outside Milwaukee), but I don't know if it's worth the headache.

Edit: But I did take it for a quick spin down the road. Wow. I dunno where it tops off, but it sure gets there a hell of a lot faster than the Suzuki.

BenDanger screwed with this post 06-24-2012 at 03:48 PM
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:01 PM   #6650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDanger View Post
I've only talked with the guy once, but he mentioned that he had worked some clever charging solution into the bike. New points.

But from what Google images is showing me, it looks like the camshaft does roll right on the head. Seems unthinkable. Also turned up that the 360 had a cam chain tensioner recall due to seizure. Still need to find out if this bike got a new tensioner. Wikipedia says the model only ran 3 years. Not encouraging.

My rationalization is that I could probably make a few bucks by selling it here in Chicago (the seller is outside Milwaukee), but I don't know if it's worth the headache.

Edit: But I did take it for a quick spin down the road. Wow. I dunno where it tops off, but it sure gets there a hell of a lot faster than the Suzuki.
I dunno about the 360, but 350's have modern points options, and aftermarket$$$ exhaust options available. Other than treating the tank for rust and synching the carbs my two friends love their bikes.

And the 100 extra cc does make a difference.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:58 PM   #6651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDanger View Post
I've only talked with the guy once, but he mentioned that he had worked some clever charging solution into the bike. New points.

But from what Google images is showing me, it looks like the camshaft does roll right on the head. Seems unthinkable. Also turned up that the 360 had a cam chain tensioner recall due to seizure. Still need to find out if this bike got a new tensioner. Wikipedia says the model only ran 3 years. Not encouraging.

My rationalization is that I could probably make a few bucks by selling it here in Chicago (the seller is outside Milwaukee), but I don't know if it's worth the headache.

Edit: But I did take it for a quick spin down the road. Wow. I dunno where it tops off, but it sure gets there a hell of a lot faster than the Suzuki.
I had a bike shop (Suzuki dealer, but worked on anything) back in the 70s. The CB 360 was as bad as the CB350s were good. You are correct that the cam runs right in the head, but so do most other Japanese OHC and DOHC engines, including the TU and every other Suzuki motorcycle engine I ever saw.

I don't recall what all the issues were with the CB360, but I do recall cam bearing failures. The 350s had a separate cam box with removable bearings. I can recall replacing some of those. I suspect that the primitive centrifugal filter and a lack of maintenance may have been partly to blame.

If you do wind up with a CB360 make sure you change the oil frequently. It is not only the extra 100 CCs, but also the CB Hondas were a higher revving engine and probably made at least 1.5 times the power that the TU does, and unless the one you are looking at is a G model, it also has a 6-speed trans.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:20 PM   #6652
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That is wrong, the TU has bearings on the cam, it does NOT run right on the head.
Big ball bearings that are pressure fed with oil.
The TU has bearings on everything.
The only thing that does not have a bearing is the piston wrist pin.
They only use bearings there on 2 stokes that I know of.
Even the fixed gears in the transmission have needle bearings.
I think the dr650 and dr350 also use bearings on the cam.

I fit a Boyer electronic ignition on my old Triumph, worked great, trouble free, makes the bike very easy to time.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo View Post
I had a bike shop (Suzuki dealer, but worked on anything) back in the 70s. The CB 360 was as bad as the CB350s were good. You are correct that the cam runs right in the head, but so do most other Japanese OHC and DOHC engines, including the TU and every other Suzuki motorcycle engine I ever saw.

I don't recall what all the issues were with the CB360, but I do recall cam bearing failures. The 350s had a separate cam box with removable bearings. I can recall replacing some of those. I suspect that the primitive centrifugal filter and a lack of maintenance may have been partly to blame.

If you do wind up with a CB360 make sure you change the oil frequently. It is not only the extra 100 CCs, but also the CB Hondas were a higher revving engine and probably made at least 1.5 times the power that the TU does, and unless the one you are looking at is a G model, it also has a 6-speed trans.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:59 PM   #6653
Andyinhilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
That is wrong, the TU has bearings on the cam, it does NOT run right on the head.
Big ball bearings that are pressure fed with oil.
The TU has bearings on everything.
The only thing that does not have a bearing is the piston wrist pin.
They only use bearings there on 2 stokes that I know of.
Even the fixed gears in the transmission have needle bearings.
I think the dr650 and dr350 also use bearings on the cam.

I fit a Boyer electronic ignition on my old Triumph, worked great, trouble free, makes the bike very easy to time.
OOPS! My mistake on the TU cam bearings. I did not look at the drawings close enough, as there are no separate bearings listed, but they do show up on the crappy parts drawing. The DR650, and the DR200, and all of the other Suzukis, Kawasakis, many Yamahas and most of the post 1974 Hondas I ever worked on had cams running right in the head.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:24 PM   #6654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisin'Carolina View Post
I dunno about the 360, but 350's have modern points options, and aftermarket$$$ exhaust options available. Other than treating the tank for rust and synching the carbs my two friends love their bikes.

And the 100 extra cc does make a difference.
Extra 100 cc's, and the fact that they're twins, and rev higher. Both the 350 and 360 make approx twice the HP as the TU250.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:27 PM   #6655
NJ-Brett
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Well, I just got back from a nice after dinner ride.
The wife and I went out for a nice 60 mile ride earlier but that was not enough for me.
In the morning, I had switched to the stock tire size and the smaller (41 tooth) rear sprocket since I rode all day yesterday with the big back tire/stock rear sprocket setup.
I wanted to compare them back to back on a longer ride and 2 up.
I am sticking with the stock tire size 41 tooth rear sprocket.
I think the bike is more fun and much smoother at the lower revs it runs at that way.
More fun?
Yes, because I find it fun to use the strong mid range power more then screaming the motor all the time.
My wife likes it better as well as she gets a lot less vibration in her feet with the 41 tooth rear sprocket at normal speeds (50 to 60 mph).

The stock rear sprocket and larger rear tire (and 16 tooth front sprocket) is more of a race bike kind of feel.
Its quick and spunky, but just not as nice at speed.
And my bike still seems to be getting better, today I was running into a stiff headwind at 75 mph in 5th gear.


I have been enjoying my after dinner rides. After over a year of ownership I still can not get enough TU time and try and fit even a short one in whenever I can.
My wife thinks I have a girlfriend.

For some reason, I seem to really connect with the TU. Its mostly the gearing changes that make it so enjoyable I suppose, I do not think I would spend as much time on it otherwise as traffic moves quite fast on most roads around here.

I have been thinking about what other bikes I might like better, and the list is very short.
The Moto Guzzi V7 classic maybe, never rode one, or some old Triumph, a 69 or 79 Bonneville, but old bikes have their own issues.
40 years of riding motorcycles of all kinds and my favorite is an under powered beginner bike TU250?
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:38 AM   #6656
rivercreep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
40 years of riding motorcycles of all kinds and my favorite is an under powered beginner bike TU250?
I hear what you're saying!
...and it's amazing how well sorted she is for such an inexpensive bike.
Guys that think you "NEED" a bigger bike to have fun, must be missing something.
If I lived in a very mountain filled location....then I might need at least a 350.


Ps. Thanks for the advice in regards to oil cooling. (I'll probably buy one of those oil-temp gages on ebay for my own piece of mind)
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:13 AM   #6657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
...and it's amazing how well sorted she is for such an inexpensive bike.
Guys that think you "NEED" a bigger bike to have fun, must be missing something.
If I lived in a very mountain filled location....then I might need at least a 350.
Agree with the bigger bike comment.
I spend the summer in the mountains of Western North Carolina and find that a 250 has plenty of power at least below 4000 feet elevation. In SW Florida where I winter I feel that a 250 is marginal on power.
BTW A TU250 is going to find a spot in my garage eventually and I have enjoyed being a lurker on this thread.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:43 AM   #6658
NJ-Brett
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As far as oil/temps go, I was riding my old Daytona for years, including running in the sand 2 up on 100F days, and had a hard time getting the oil past 180F in the oil tank.
The TU with its plated bore and loads of fins (it really has a LOT of fins) should be much better then an iron jug Triumph.
After a long hard ride on the TU I used a non contect thermometer (IR) at the oil level inspection window and got 182F as the highest reading.

That hole at the top of the case might be for drilling the oil passage, or it might have been for an oil pressure switch, or oil feed to the top end of the gz250 or some other model offered in other markets.
All bikes used to have a low oil pressure warning light, I wonder why they dropped that on almost every new bike.
Nothing I know of has one, and there are some Honda singles that could really use one, as they run hot and use oil, the klr 650 uses oil as well...
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:30 AM   #6659
NJ-Brett
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Over the years, I have had a number of bikes I really liked, some that were ok, and some that I did not like at all.
Some bikes like the 69 Daytona were great, but had serious flaws. Others were fun to ride for a month after which they got booring, some were really uncomfortable for longer rides.
For street bikes, over the years I would have to say my favorite up till the TU was my 79 Bonneville special.
No mechanicaal or electrical issues, it ran well, handled well, stopped well, got good mpg, and looked good.
It was also easy to work on and inexpensive to own.
You could ride it for 12 hours and not be in pain, more you can not ask of any bike in the comfort department.
The older Harleys were fun and trouble free, the new ones are not fun because they are made for dwarfs.

The TU is easy, everything is easy, easy to move around, easy to ride, with the FI, push the button and go.
But the big thing that turns me on about the TU is that its just fast enough to do what I need it to do, so I can race around ALL the time. It FEELS fast at lower speeds which is great.
Other bikes, like that old Bonneville special felt so SLOW at 70 mph, you just wanted to do 100+ mph all the time, same with any newer big bike, 70 mph is booring from a thrill standpoint, so you get a fist full of tickets weekly, and traffic is always pissing you off for being in the way.
Not so with the TU. Traffic is FUN.
I think I have the most fun on the TU in traffic at 60 mph and up.
Darting from lane to lane, full throttle, getting through little gaps, speed shifting, braking hard for the red lights, what a hoot!
So what is booring dull traffic on a big bike, is the most fun you can have with your clothes on with the TU.
And in over a year, I have not gotten one single ticket, never got pulled over, never even got a look from the police.

Even with the somewhat slow Daytona, I got 8 tickets in 5 years and got away from the police a few times as well, the speed past a cop, then make a bunch of turns fast till they have no idea where you went kind of get away...

The fact I can sit the bike for 8 hours or more without a lot of pain, and that the thing needs nothing but oil changes to run and shift great is just another plus.
I beat on and abuse the bike as much as anyone could, and it needs nothing.
I am coming up on 11,000 miles of nothing but joy rides (no commute) and I think the bike is still getting better.
Maybe its my changes, but I do not lack for power or speed in any situation except for big long hills.

After a little over an year of ownership, I love the little TU more then any other bike I ever had, and want to ride it ALL the time.
I sold my TW200 because as much fun as it was dirt riding that thing, it just cut into my TU time.

Maybe like people, you sometimes find your perfect match of a bike.





Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
I hear what you're saying!
...and it's amazing how well sorted she is for such an inexpensive bike.
Guys that think you "NEED" a bigger bike to have fun, must be missing something.
If I lived in a very mountain filled location....then I might need at least a 350.


Ps. Thanks for the advice in regards to oil cooling. (I'll probably buy one of those oil-temp gages on ebay for my own piece of mind)
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:15 PM   #6660
linuxid10t
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Got to the beach. Unfortunately, I could not take much of the parkway, but I did do the entirety of Skyline Drive. Skyline Drive was much better taken care of than the Parkway (and more pretty.) Anyway, while I'm still at the beach, I am getting new tires put on. I ordered some Bridgestone BT-45 Sport Touring tires. I am also at over 11,200 miles. I started at less than 10000 :) Anyway, my speedometer needle has started wobbling a bit. I vaguely remember someone having problems with this. If you guys remember, help a brother out ;)
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