ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > Southeast, The Lair of the Dragon - The Blue Ridge and Smoky Mountains
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-22-2013, 09:01 AM   #24511
ddlewis
squirrel
 
ddlewis's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: South/central Va
Oddometer: 1,514
faceplant epilogue

Gravel riding is not my strong suit but I WAS feeling pretty good about Saturdays riding where we as a group kept a semi-sporty pace most of the time. I was up on the pegs and breaking the rear loose for a little back wheel steering. Running hard into corners, loose and confident, having fun with no oh-sh!tz. Started thinking that after all these years looks like I'm finally getting comfortable on gravel. ha.

Sunday after coffee we loaded up at L.F. headed out at a leisurely pace. Less than a mile out of the campground I high-side onto my head.

Thought hard about it on the way home. Honestly - no idea what I was doing or thinking leading up to it. There was an easy left bend in the road. Rear slid out to the right, leaned left with foot out to stabilize and then wheel caught. There was a short flight with hard landing on my face and shoulder. I can only imagine that I got on the rear brake to cause it, no other explanation fits. dumbass.

One more reminder that a slower pace while not fully engaged is WAY more dangerous than riding hard with your head in the game.

(even though bike slammed hard only found a gouge on handguard plastic and little on headlight cowl. Better than me.. Right shoulder bruised up, stiff and swollen.. The real pain is where I have apparently separated some ribs from their normally associated meat. )
ddlewis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 09:07 AM   #24512
Boon Booni
Red Clay Halo
 
Boon Booni's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Oddometer: 13,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddlewis View Post
Gravel riding is not my strong suit but I WAS feeling pretty good about Saturdays riding where we as a group kept a semi-sporty pace most of the time. I was up on the pegs and breaking the rear loose for a little back wheel steering. Running hard into corners, loose and confident, having fun with no oh-sh!tz. Started thinking that after all these years looks like I'm finally getting comfortable on gravel. ha.

Sunday after coffee we loaded up at L.F. headed out at a leisurely pace. Less than a mile out of the campground I high-side onto my head.

Thought hard about it on the way home. Honestly - no idea what I was doing or thinking leading up to it. There was an easy left bend in the road. Rear slid out to the right, leaned left with foot out to stabilize and then wheel caught. There was a short flight with hard landing on my face and shoulder. I can only imagine that I got on the rear brake to cause it, no other explanation fits. dumbass.

One more reminder that a slower pace while not fully engaged is WAY more dangerous than riding hard with your head in the game.

(even though bike slammed hard only found a gouge on handguard plastic and little on headlight cowl. Better than me.. Right shoulder bruised up, stiff and swollen.. The real pain is where I have apparently separated some ribs from their normally associated meat. )

Probably all that extra weight on the bike made the rear hook up faster than you had been used to when running light.

Heal up!
__________________
Where the fuck...
Where the fuck is the bike?
You gotta be shitting me.
Where the fuck is the road?

Boon Booni screwed with this post 07-22-2013 at 09:15 AM
Boon Booni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 09:13 AM   #24513
HBN
is car free
 
HBN's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 11,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSA_PILOT
Are you going to share insights, tools, and procedure?
http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...=234400&page=1
http://rvbprecision.com/motorcycles/...placement.html
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...ive%20R&R.html
__________________
Lost with Mike
Only those that go would know. - WayneJ
12' Ruckus, 01' R1150GS, 75' XL250
HBurgNinja - The Thread | HBN Boondocking the Nation | Beards to Canada
HBN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 09:28 AM   #24514
jgiacobbe
Skid plate tester
 
jgiacobbe's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Near Richmond VA
Oddometer: 2,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddlewis View Post
...

Sunday after coffee we loaded up at L.F. headed out at a leisurely pace. Less than a mile out of the campground I high-side onto my head.

.........
Dude... tell them not to spike your coffee next time. Heal up.
jgiacobbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 09:45 AM   #24515
HalfPlate
What? Where?
 
HalfPlate's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Eastern VA
Oddometer: 1,043
Glad to hear everyone made it through that storm safe and sound, if not a little wet. Thanks for making it a great weekend guys and gals. Hopefully we can put something like this together in the fall.

LF Wilderness (dual sport heaven)


F800's chased me all weekend long, just nipping at my rear tire all the time


Alpine meadows beside the Sinks


Dirty GS
__________________
-07 R1200GS
-07 Ruckus
5th BMW GS Trophy Challenge Qualifier 2013
3rd BMW GS Trophy Challenge Qualifier 2012
IBA# 34681 (SS1000)
"luck played a fundamental role" Carlo Boffi
HalfPlate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 11:07 AM   #24516
jgiacobbe
Skid plate tester
 
jgiacobbe's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Near Richmond VA
Oddometer: 2,073
What was the combo of K60/mefo tires people were running on the GS and DL650s? Was it K60 rear with Mefo Explorer or Super Explorer fronts? I cannot remember what people were using for fronts.
jgiacobbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 11:22 AM   #24517
burtonrider3889
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond, VA
Oddometer: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddlewis View Post
Gravel riding is not my strong suit but I WAS feeling pretty good about Saturdays riding where we as a group kept a semi-sporty pace most of the time. I was up on the pegs and breaking the rear loose for a little back wheel steering. Running hard into corners, loose and confident, having fun with no oh-sh!tz. Started thinking that after all these years looks like I'm finally getting comfortable on gravel. ha.

Sunday after coffee we loaded up at L.F. headed out at a leisurely pace. Less than a mile out of the campground I high-side onto my head.

Thought hard about it on the way home. Honestly - no idea what I was doing or thinking leading up to it. There was an easy left bend in the road. Rear slid out to the right, leaned left with foot out to stabilize and then wheel caught. There was a short flight with hard landing on my face and shoulder. I can only imagine that I got on the rear brake to cause it, no other explanation fits. dumbass.

One more reminder that a slower pace while not fully engaged is WAY more dangerous than riding hard with your head in the game.

(even though bike slammed hard only found a gouge on handguard plastic and little on headlight cowl. Better than me.. Right shoulder bruised up, stiff and swollen.. The real pain is where I have apparently separated some ribs from their normally associated meat. )
Could also be tires maybe? I've found since buying the WR that I have a very hard time sliding the rear out without it wanting to over rotate and put me in trouble. I feel like I just don't have enough traction. I will be getting some D606's or something meatier when these tires are up to test my theory, as I never had that issue on fully off road tires.
__________________
2012 WR250R
2007 SV650 (SOLD)
1984 XL350R (SOLD)
2002 CR80R (SOLD)
burtonrider3889 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 11:24 AM   #24518
Dirtmonkey8
VA is for Riders
 
Dirtmonkey8's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Oddometer: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddlewis View Post
Honestly - no idea what I was doing or thinking leading up to it. There was an easy left bend in the road. Rear slid out to the right, leaned left with foot out to stabilize and then wheel caught. There was a short flight with hard landing on my face and shoulder. I can only imagine that I got on the rear brake to cause it, no other explanation fits. dumbass.
You may have just let off the gas too soon. I am surprised you didn't learn from my Dolly Sods mistake/mishap. Best not to "try something" within the first few minutes on the bike. Better to get the head in the game and get reacquainted first. I think it is also a lot more predictable with a really knobby tire. You should try getting a feel for it on my 350 on some of the wide and very loose gravel roads out near my folks place ON A STRAIGHT STRETCH OF ROAD. Add turns later. A small bike helps build the confidence to go at it. You can't half-arse it. Once you have the confidence on a small bike it is a real blast on the 650. Well, with big knobbies anyway. Even locking the rear during braking helps with the feel. It is a good skill to have, a lot of fun and I don't blame you for going for it. That road surface was pretty inconsistent though. An embedded rock can send you up the bank or out into the tree tops. Heal up so we can do some rear steering practice.
__________________
A little dirt don't hurt.

Dirtmonkey8 screwed with this post 07-22-2013 at 12:04 PM
Dirtmonkey8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #24519
Dirtmonkey8
VA is for Riders
 
Dirtmonkey8's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Oddometer: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by burtonrider3889 View Post
Could also be tires maybe? I've found since buying the WR that I have a very hard time sliding the rear out without it wanting to over rotate and put me in trouble. I feel like I just don't have enough traction. I will be getting some D606's or something meatier when these tires are up to test my theory, as I never had that issue on fully off road tires.
You are correct. Without big knobs it just keeps on sliding and is not predictable enough. I low sided my Tiger in a parking area up on Dolly Sods. Dang street tires.
__________________
A little dirt don't hurt.
Dirtmonkey8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 12:05 PM   #24520
HalfPlate
What? Where?
 
HalfPlate's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Eastern VA
Oddometer: 1,043
Sliding your rear tire on gravel forest roads is tricky no matter the situation. Most of those roads have a base that is so solidly pack they might as well be paved, and we all know how slick a gravel patch is on a paved road. The I handle those turns like is:
1. Stand up with your shoulders inline with your bars (don't try the foot out thing, this isn't motocross and your not going to flat track a loaded dual sport, dr650 or GS. None of us have that skill level. YET Edit: Splitlanes rides like this and it is simply amazing to watch so this isn't always correct)
2. Enter the turn at an angle that gives you the most visibility
3. Pick a safe speed according to what you see from #2
4. Begin the turn by keeping your speed and throttle super smooth = jerky equals fall
5. Over exaggerate the lean angle as you enter and counter lean = you stand vertical while the bike leans, apply as much weight as you can on your outside peg
6. Now that your in the turn its a balancing act between power, lean angle, body position front to back, and pressure on the outside peg
6A. More power = more speed and less traction More lean angle = sharper turn but less traction Body position front to back = lean back to add traction to rear tire, forward for front tire traction Pressure on outside peg = the more you push the tire will bite but it also tries to push out as well ====it a balancing act====
7. once you pass the apex its fun time!!! The scary part is over roll on some power (smooth baby smooth) and start to reduce the pressure to your outside peg while also leaning forward a touch. This will cause the rear tire to spin and slide out a little (be ready for it and don't chop the throttle, if you want to stop the slide just lean back and add weight to the outside peg) now just adjust the throttle to control how far the rear slides.
8. Now that your through power on and set up for the next one

Its a dance with your metal beauty, one that I enjoy working on for sure. You have to get the feel for what the bike does when you poke it with a stick. If your ready for it you can dodge the bite and really ride, if it freaks you out you will fall (trust me I have done it plenty of times).

Also remember that this cannot be read and just done, you cannot do this by mechanics. Its all about the feel and the sensations, you need to understand what happens when x is applied but you don't have time to remember that when actually doing it. Like I told my wife while teaching her "ok babe know that you know how to ride, its time to lean how to ride....".

BTW this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it, remember that.

Final word, be safe guys we all have loved ones that want us to come home. Start slow and controlled and build from there. It takes time to become confidant on gravel but its worth it. If anyone ever wants to go out and play with gravel turns I am always up for a ride.
__________________
-07 R1200GS
-07 Ruckus
5th BMW GS Trophy Challenge Qualifier 2013
3rd BMW GS Trophy Challenge Qualifier 2012
IBA# 34681 (SS1000)
"luck played a fundamental role" Carlo Boffi

HalfPlate screwed with this post 07-22-2013 at 12:30 PM
HalfPlate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 12:19 PM   #24521
REAPER_ONE
YOU'RE DONE
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Oddometer: 3,050
thanks buddy... I need to do this for Chasey.
REAPER_ONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 12:36 PM   #24522
Whitfield
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Whitfield's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Southern Chesterfield Co
Oddometer: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfPlate View Post
Its a dance with your metal beauty, one that I enjoy working on for sure. You have to get the feel for what the bike does when you poke it with a stick. If your ready for it you can dodge the bite and really ride, if it freaks you out you will fall (trust me I have done it plenty of times).
Well said!

Hanging the foot out and shifting your weight forward to get the weight up on the front wheel and off of the rear / pitching the rear out. Most don't see the foot out as weighting the front tire. Once you get your weight far enough forward (on a smaller play bike espicially) things get fun quick. Many Flat track guys start out on XR 100's and move up form there. I've been working on this with the Husky in the dirt for a few yrs. With the foot out and your weight forward riding the tank ~ the rear will usually track along side of you and you can adjust it with the throttle. That said, I'll leave this maneuver on a BIG Pig to the Pro's... Looks like everyone was loaded down with gear this weekend.

HAte Hate HATE that I missed out on the weekend skills builder course. Glad to hear that DDlewis is Ok! My Husky is geared for this type of ride not so sure my butt is. No troubles keeping up it's just a question on the distance and short fuel range.

Whitfield screwed with this post 07-22-2013 at 12:49 PM
Whitfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 12:47 PM   #24523
Eddy Alvarez
Addicited to ALL bikes!
 
Eddy Alvarez's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Chester,VA. Growing on me or getting used to it?
Oddometer: 2,159
Target fixation

Target fixation at it's finest. Big squeeze on the front brake, NO STEERING input despite time to swerve to either direction. Scary hard hit! He walked away with no injuries....only a massive lawsuit for smacking into the Camaro! Can you say "My back will hurt until your insurance company writes me a fat check!"

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/07/21/vo-newday-motorcycle-crash-on-tape.cnn
__________________
Me: BMW R1200GS KTM 525EXC. Gabriel: KTM 50. Elena: Honda CRF70. Lynn: Official Gatorade/snack girl!
Eddy Alvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 01:09 PM   #24524
HalfPlate
What? Where?
 
HalfPlate's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Eastern VA
Oddometer: 1,043
I find that the whole leg out thing is actually a more advanced way to de-weight the rear / weight the front and most adventure riders really need to focus on standing. In addition to the fact that with your leg out if the bike low sides or you catch a rock your going to break that leg. BTW the whole leg out thing is not to hold the bike up in a turn, it is used to weight the front tire when siting on the fuel tank isn't enough, plus it give you room to pitch the bike over and counter lean. The gain in control you get from standing is unbelievable once you get comfortable, but its like anything if you don't force yourself to do it you will never learn.

It would serve all riders well to learn about weighting and de-weighting different parts of the bike and the results of those actions. The term de-weight is used because you cannot actually lift a part of the bike while riding only remove weight from it.

Something else I just thought of as well, I ride like this when on lane and a half country roads / wet roads as well, that way when the slide comes your ready. I have two different riding modes: counter lean (dirt, gravel, intersections, lane and a half...) and lean with (dry pavement twisties, road track quality, etc...)
__________________
-07 R1200GS
-07 Ruckus
5th BMW GS Trophy Challenge Qualifier 2013
3rd BMW GS Trophy Challenge Qualifier 2012
IBA# 34681 (SS1000)
"luck played a fundamental role" Carlo Boffi

HalfPlate screwed with this post 07-22-2013 at 01:20 PM
HalfPlate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 01:13 PM   #24525
HalfPlate
What? Where?
 
HalfPlate's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Eastern VA
Oddometer: 1,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy Alvarez View Post
Target fixation at it's finest. Big squeeze on the front brake, NO STEERING input despite time to swerve to either direction. Scary hard hit! He walked away with no injuries....only a massive lawsuit for smacking into the Camaro! Can you say "My back will hurt until your insurance company writes me a fat check!"

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/07/21/vo-newday-motorcycle-crash-on-tape.cnn

If you stare at it long enough you will eventually hit it
__________________
-07 R1200GS
-07 Ruckus
5th BMW GS Trophy Challenge Qualifier 2013
3rd BMW GS Trophy Challenge Qualifier 2012
IBA# 34681 (SS1000)
"luck played a fundamental role" Carlo Boffi
HalfPlate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014