F800GS Throttle Response at low speeds

RedHawk47 · 12-19-2008, 08:20 PM

I've only managed to get in one off-road ride, partly due to the weather and partly because I wanted to have my guards on (and they hadn't arrived).
I had a bit of difficulty; riding at walking speed I'd hit a bump, or decide that I wanted to go faster, and suddenly the bike would take off like a rocket. So I would back off on the throttle and I would be tossed over the handlebars (figuratively). I have plenty of off-road miles on my KLR and never had this problem; granted that the F800 has 3X the power. But I didn't have the problem on my 950 Adv either.

Jan 2009 issue on Motorcycle Consumer News has a review of the F800GS. They made this comment:
"Our only issue with the motor is the abruptness of the power with small movements of the throttle, which is particularly noticeable in slow off-road going. ..."

Possible solutions?
MCN suggested the possibility of using a different throttle spool or twist grip, such as a F650GS throttle spool.
Reading about this issue in Gspot I found several suggestions:
1. Adjust the slack out of the throttle cables - but don't get them too tight or the throttle mapper can't get to zero.
2. Turn on the ignition. After the lights have quit blinking run the throttle slowly to full on, then off, three times. Then start the engine. A friend recommended this procedure but said that you should disconnect and reconnect the battery first.

Has anyone tried any of these? Do you have other suggestions?
I haven't been able to try them because of work schedule, cold weather and an un-heated garage (actually it's a drafty barn).
Thanks

NoFace · 12-20-2008, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawk47

I've only managed to get in one off-road ride, partly due to the weather and partly because I wanted to have my guards on (and they hadn't arrived).
I had a bit of difficulty; riding at walking speed I'd hit a bump, or decide that I wanted to go faster, and suddenly the bike would take off like a rocket. So I would back off on the throttle and I would be tossed over the handlebars (figuratively). I have plenty of off-road miles on my KLR and never had this problem; granted that the F800 has 3X the power. But I didn't have the problem on my 950 Adv either.

I have the same experience on my new one. Not comfortable standing at low speed. Had no problems on R12 GS. I cant test your solution as my bike already back at dealer for repairs (some idiot tried to steal it). Awaiting other answers with interest

JRWooden · 12-20-2008, 06:24 AM

boy I'd like to hear what (if anything) rolling the throttle on/off 3X does for the bike / reprogramming the computer / whatever ...

How many miles do you have on your bike?

I had same "overly sensitive" throttle issue when new, but it gradually disappeared over the first 1000miles or so...

Jim

WoodWorks · 12-20-2008, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRWooden

I had same "overly sensitive" throttle issue when new, but it gradually disappeared over the first 1000miles or so...

I wonder if it disappeared because of something mechanical, or because you got used to, and adjusted for, the throttle's sensitivity.

With all the snow and ice on the road, it's going to be late spring before I get any more off-pavement riding around here. But I suspect that my throttle will somehow have become more tractable by the summer.

Sort of like how much smarter my parents got the older I got.

David

tmex · 12-20-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodWorks

I wonder if it disappeared because of something mechanical, or because you got used to, and adjusted for, the throttle's sensitivity.

With all the snow and ice on the road, it's going to be late spring before I get any more off-pavement riding around here. But I suspect that my throttle will somehow have become more tractable by the summer.

Sort of like how much smarter my parents got the older I got.

David

That's the answer. Fortunately for me I live in Cali, and have lots of off road miles on my F8. You adapt to the abrupt throttle response fairly quickly. A few hundred off road miles, and it becomes a non-issue.

MookieBlaylock · 12-20-2008, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawk47

I have plenty of off-road miles on my KLR and never had this problem; granted that the F800 has 3X the power. But I didn't have the problem on my 950 Adv either.

welcome to the world of fuel injection. Maybe a g2 throttle cam would fit, it softens low end throttle movement

dholaday · 12-20-2008, 08:05 AM

This was discussed a bit in the "complaints" thread. One suggestion was to unwind the spring one turn. Check that thread for more info.

Trout · 12-20-2008, 08:53 AM

VW drive by wire throttle is like this - takes a little time to adapt to your driving style. Is the EFI on BMW bikes really this advanced? Wow. Glad to hear it isn't part of the low engine speed emissions routine like it was on my ZX10 which took a PCIII, ignition module, TRE and a new map to get smooth.

JRWooden · 12-20-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodWorks

I wonder if it disappeared because of something mechanical, or because you got used to, and adjusted for, the throttle's sensitivity.

With all the snow and ice on the road, it's going to be late spring before I get any more off-pavement riding around here. But I suspect that my throttle will somehow have become more tractable by the summer.

Sort of like how much smarter my parents got the older I got.

David

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it was perhaps a little of all three...

* mechanical parts got broken in and smoother

* the engine control computer probably "learned" a bit and has made some offsets in the fuel map (I'm not SURE the BMW does this, but many other FI vehicles do so...)

* I sold my old carburetor-equipted bike and no longer have a baseline for comparison....

JIm

Ed@Ford · 12-20-2008, 05:23 PM

It's almost a sure thing that there is "learning" that is going on with the engine computer. There also is the high likelihood that disconnecting the battery will kill these learned things. Many engine management folks call this "keep-alive" memory. If it's like most cars, you canreally feel the difference.

Having ridden both the F650 and the F800, and the F650 is significantly "softer" than the 800 at small throttle openings. The other nice thing about the 650 is that peak torque is almost 1000rpm lower than the 800. I think the 650 is easier to ride.

mrleadfoot67 · 12-20-2008, 08:53 PM

The bike has a binary throttle and no flywheel. Trying to be smooth in first gear in anything technical doesn't work, unless you slip the clutch. Coming off of my airhead I had to adjust my riding style to use the clutch where previously I could idle down to 500 rpm and roll on the throttle, smoothly. I practice using two fingers on the clutch on the street so when I go off road my left hand doesn't get tired.

The good news is the gearing is lower than on a F650 twin. Those guys really have to slip the hell out of the clutch. And we don't have to take the whole damn bike apart to replace the clutch like a boxer twin.

Mark_S · 12-20-2008, 10:56 PM

you were spoilt with the KLR - it has a really nice low end throttle response - it makes a huge difference to rider fatigue in nasty off road stuff.

I previously had a yamaha XT660X fuel injected single - it was an absolute bitch at low speed - I had to slip the clutch just to smoothly go from off throttle to on throttle in 1st or 2nd. The lean mixtures these things run for emissions dont help much either.

you may get used to it - but you shouldnt have to.

FWIW - my WR450 has a snappy throttle - a rekluse clutch took all the snap out of it - also raising the gearing helps by softening the torque reaction.

Bucko · 12-22-2008, 07:50 AM

I'm not happy with the digital throttle response at the low end, but in my one dirt experience so far with this bike (really a two-day camping affair with rough dirt on the first day and smooth on the second), I found that there's plenty of torque to ride in second most of the time. In first, the clutch is your best friend. If a re-map that fixes this comes down the pipe, sign me up!

RedHawk47 · 12-22-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawk47

I have plenty of off-road miles on my KLR and never had this problem; granted that the F800 has 3X the power. But I didn't have the problem on my 950 Adv either.

Too cold to ride; haven't tried any fixes yet.
I have realized that both the KLR and the 950 are carburated, so a smoother throttle response would be expected.
I remembered reading that the new 990's (fuel injected) were having similar complains of sudden on response. Checking on Orange Crush I found that some 990 riders were changing to a G2 throttle tube and cam with good results. I also seem remember hearing that KTM changed the throttle cam after a year or so.

Has anyone found a good solution?

HighTechCoonass · 12-23-2008, 04:45 AM

I agree 100% with the throttle response at lower speeds..I even wrote about it here....and other riders say the same thing "the clutch is your friend". BS I would love to detune (or slower) response when off roading. Overall the bike is perfect...this change would on make it a little more sweeeeeeter.

12-19-2008, 08:20 PM	#1
RedHawk47 ^OP Adventurer Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Berthoud, CO Oddometer: 354	F800GS Throttle Response at low speeds I've only managed to get in one off-road ride, partly due to the weather and partly because I wanted to have my guards on (and they hadn't arrived). I had a bit of difficulty; riding at walking speed I'd hit a bump, or decide that I wanted to go faster, and suddenly the bike would take off like a rocket. So I would back off on the throttle and I would be tossed over the handlebars (figuratively). I have plenty of off-road miles on my KLR and never had this problem; granted that the F800 has 3X the power. But I didn't have the problem on my 950 Adv either. Jan 2009 issue on Motorcycle Consumer News has a review of the F800GS. They made this comment: "Our only issue with the motor is the abruptness of the power with small movements of the throttle, which is particularly noticeable in slow off-road going. ..." Possible solutions? MCN suggested the possibility of using a different throttle spool or twist grip, such as a F650GS throttle spool. Reading about this issue in Gspot I found several suggestions: 1. Adjust the slack out of the throttle cables - but don't get them too tight or the throttle mapper can't get to zero. 2. Turn on the ignition. After the lights have quit blinking run the throttle slowly to full on, then off, three times. Then start the engine. A friend recommended this procedure but said that you should disconnect and reconnect the battery first. Has anyone tried any of these? Do you have other suggestions? I haven't been able to try them because of work schedule, cold weather and an un-heated garage (actually it's a drafty barn). Thanks __________________ Dan It's never too late to have a happy childhood. -- Tom Robbins How I spent my summer vacation - Alaska 09 BMW F800GS 99 KLR 650 A13

12-20-2008, 08:53 PM	#11
mrleadfoot67 Adventurer Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Southern California Oddometer: 31	Use the Clutch The bike has a binary throttle and no flywheel. Trying to be smooth in first gear in anything technical doesn't work, unless you slip the clutch. Coming off of my airhead I had to adjust my riding style to use the clutch where previously I could idle down to 500 rpm and roll on the throttle, smoothly. I practice using two fingers on the clutch on the street so when I go off road my left hand doesn't get tired. The good news is the gearing is lower than on a F650 twin. Those guys really have to slip the hell out of the clutch. And we don't have to take the whole damn bike apart to replace the clutch like a boxer twin.

12-20-2008, 10:56 PM	#12
Mark_S Fair Weather Faggot Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Kapiti NZ Oddometer: 1,283	you were spoilt with the KLR - it has a really nice low end throttle response - it makes a huge difference to rider fatigue in nasty off road stuff. I previously had a yamaha XT660X fuel injected single - it was an absolute bitch at low speed - I had to slip the clutch just to smoothly go from off throttle to on throttle in 1st or 2nd. The lean mixtures these things run for emissions dont help much either. you may get used to it - but you shouldnt have to. FWIW - my WR450 has a snappy throttle - a rekluse clutch took all the snap out of it - also raising the gearing helps by softening the torque reaction. __________________ These are the best days

12-23-2008, 04:45 AM	#15
HighTechCoonass Living the Dream.... Joined: Jan 2005 Location: land of the swamps!, Cajun Country LA Oddometer: 2,104	I agree!!! I agree 100% with the throttle response at lower speeds..I even wrote about it here....and other riders say the same thing "the clutch is your friend". BS I would love to detune (or slower) response when off roading. Overall the bike is perfect...this change would on make it a little more sweeeeeeter. __________________ The F800gs Snatchy Throttle Fix Boost your Beamer...BMW efi GS Power Controller - l Now the Juice NEW!TheJUICE

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12-20-2008, 06:24 AM	#3
JRWooden Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2008 Location: The great state of confusion Oddometer: 3,434	boy I'd like to hear what (if anything) rolling the throttle on/off 3X does for the bike / reprogramming the computer / whatever ... How many miles do you have on your bike? I had same "overly sensitive" throttle issue when new, but it gradually disappeared over the first 1000miles or so... Jim

12-20-2008, 08:05 AM	#7
dholaday Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2008 Location: White Salmon, WA Oddometer: 217	This was discussed a bit in the "complaints" thread. One suggestion was to unwind the spring one turn. Check that thread for more info.

12-20-2008, 08:53 AM	#8
Trout Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2008 Location: SoCal (91356) Oddometer: 341	VW drive by wire throttle is like this - takes a little time to adapt to your driving style. Is the EFI on BMW bikes really this advanced? Wow. Glad to hear it isn't part of the low engine speed emissions routine like it was on my ZX10 which took a PCIII, ignition module, TRE and a new map to get smooth.

12-20-2008, 05:23 PM	#10
Ed@Ford Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2004 Location: Dearborn MI Oddometer: 1,050	It's almost a sure thing that there is "learning" that is going on with the engine computer. There also is the high likelihood that disconnecting the battery will kill these learned things. Many engine management folks call this "keep-alive" memory. If it's like most cars, you canreally feel the difference. Having ridden both the F650 and the F800, and the F650 is significantly "softer" than the 800 at small throttle openings. The other nice thing about the 650 is that peak torque is almost 1000rpm lower than the 800. I think the 650 is easier to ride.

12-22-2008, 07:50 AM	#13
Bucko In a parallel world Joined: Mar 2004 Location: South Coast, CA Oddometer: 800	I'm not happy with the digital throttle response at the low end, but in my one dirt experience so far with this bike (really a two-day camping affair with rough dirt on the first day and smooth on the second), I found that there's plenty of torque to ride in second most of the time. In first, the clutch is your best friend. If a re-map that fixes this comes down the pipe, sign me up!