Suzuki DR800 fuel injection project - Page 3

LukasM · 02-20-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambraa

Hi mousitsas,
I will use the recommended values from the megamanual. Somwhere between 12.5 and 13 for high load and 15.5-16 for cruising. I'm hoping that the vacuum signal would be ok for a alpha-n/MAP blend. I believe that would be easier and quicker to tune with the butt-dyno

You really need to get yourself an Air/fuel meter. When I researched them 2 years ago the Innovate LM1 with the RPM option was by far the best value. If you want I'll buy it from you afterward, wanted to get one for tuning the carb on my Cobra anyway.

ambraa · 02-25-2009, 07:20 AM

I allready got the LC-1 with a gauge to have some control of the AFR while riding. I'm planning to log the data from the microsquirt with a laptop and use the logviewer software to get a base setting.

ambraa · 03-15-2009, 01:48 PM

It's alive

Got the bike idling yesterday. The fuel-calculators I have used said the R6 injectors could be too small, so I was a bit worried, but it turned out to be the oposite. I had to adjust the req_fuel very low and use alternating squirts to get it started. I don't think this is good, because the valves have separate ports and then one valve won't get any fuel, just air each cycle. But the idle is ok, so I might be wrong. I didn't get much time to play around with the values so there might as well be some settings that are off.

Usually I like the winter and the snow, but now I'm really looking forward to some dry roads so I can start testing

cRAsH · 03-23-2009, 10:38 AM

RaY YreKa · 03-23-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambraa

It's alive

Got the bike idling yesterday. The fuel-calculators I have used said the R6 injectors could be too small, so I was a bit worried, but it turned out to be the oposite. I had to adjust the req_fuel very low and use alternating squirts to get it started. I don't think this is good, because the valves have separate ports and then one valve won't get any fuel, just air each cycle. But the idle is ok, so I might be wrong. I didn't get much time to play around with the values so there might as well be some settings that are off.

Usually I like the winter and the snow, but now I'm really looking forward to some dry roads so I can start testing

bluesman · 03-23-2009, 01:15 PM

this is extremely interesting project, I am really anxiously waiting for news.
I think DR will be hell of a bike with well setup FI - may be not tha much more power, but much "quiker" reaction and soooo easy to tune
It's utterly brilliant work.

fritzcoinc · 03-23-2009, 01:42 PM

Got update?
Worthless without pics.

Megamoto · 03-23-2009, 01:52 PM

Stick with it kiddo. We'll all buy the kit.

RaY YreKa · 03-23-2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megamoto

Stick with it kiddo. We'll all buy the kit.

Too right

ambraa · 03-30-2009, 03:03 PM

Got most of the cables routed and sorted out the settings for a good idle this weekend. There is a lot of values that effect each other in startup/idle (cranking pulse, after start enrichment, warmup enrichment, VE table, req_fuel) so it took some time to get it right. Now the idle is smooth and stable and the bike fires right away, even in -8C

.

I have to touch up the welds on the oiltemp adapter (leaks) and connect an extra hose to the fuelpump reservoir to get rid of the air inside it. Some times the fuel will not enter the reservoir so I'm hoping that a breather hose to the top of the gas tank will solve it.

The rest of the system seems to be working fine....only thing is that the throttlebodies might not work as good as I hoped. The throttle response from idle is really crisp compared to stock but on bigger throttle movement the vacuum slides seem to be moving too slowly. I hope this will be different when driving (load) or else I think the feel will be much like the old carbs (NOT good)....time will tell I guess. Found out the GSXR600 01-03 has a 36mm TB which without the second set of butterflies might be a good plan B later.

Added some PICTURES too this time.

Cool to see that so many still are interested in this project

I'm sorry to disappoint those hoping for a bolt on kit. My bike is quite heavily modified so most of the stuff I've made for it will not fit on a standard DR. But if someone want's to try I'll be happy to help and to share drawings, tuning files, etc.

LukasM · 05-02-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambraa

My bike is quite heavily modified so most of the stuff I've made for it will not fit on a standard DR.

Just had a look through your site again. That baby sure don't look like a standard DR Big any more!

Do you happen to have a Yamaha R6 front end on there?

Looking forward to hearing more on your progress.

Lukas

ambraa · 05-03-2009, 02:15 AM

Hi Lukas
Yes, you're right, that's the front end and wheels from a 2004 R6.
(If you want to know more about the bike I posted some info in the DR owners tread...ca page 20 I think)
How are your Cobra doing? Are you building from scratch or using a donor car?

I've put my FI project on hold for a couple of weeks now as I had to sort out the last few issues with the DMW....all the mods have been approved and I will have my licence plate on wednesday! Have been working on it for about one and a half years, so it's a good feeling

I've tried some new parts since last update on the FI. The GSXR TB's fits quite good. They are not bolt on, but the good thing is that they will fit inside the original rubber intakes. The outer diameter is about 1mm larger than the DR carbs so a bit of extra force is needed. So far the intakes holds up fine with no signs of cracks from the extra "stretching". The spacing is about 2mm wider than the carbs and is easily fixed with a file. The hard part was the fuelrail as it's made of aluminum. The old fuel residues inside it developed gases when heated, so welding it without leaks was a bit tricky. What's not so good is that the inner diameter turned out to be 38mm, not 36 as the local sales rep told me. The moral is, always use at least two sources for information...a quick google search would have told me they were 38mm....

Also looked at a fuel pump from a KTM 690. It's really small with a separate fuel regulator. Both the pump and the regulator is fitted from the outside of the fueltank. A friend of mine is using these on the Brudeli Leanster and I think the mounting brackets he's using can be welded to my gastank and the stock DR tank. The bad thing is that KTM parts are expensive ($380 total in the US, probably more in Europe).

Here is the parts fiche from KTM and some pictures of the GSXR TB's.

ambraa · 06-14-2009, 02:36 PM

Well, then the DR BIG is up and running. Have been some frustration since last update, but things seem to be working ok now. The final setup is this:

Microsquirt FI
GSXR600 2003 TB's and injectors
GM IAT and CLT sensors
Twin Air foam air filters
Honda TRX680 fuel pump

Thers is still some problems to adress as this system dosen't seem to deliver enough fuel. The VE table values for 75-100% TPS in high RPM maxes out (255). I've got relatively small dutycycle on the injectors, so I suspect it's the pump that's too small. But when riding without wide open throttle things are working very good, smooth and with crisp throttle response.
The next step will be to fit an in-tank pump from a CBR954 into the TRX680 reservoir....just have to wait for it to arrive from the states. Ebay makes things a lot easier

lateapex31 · 06-18-2009, 03:16 PM

What do you have for a fuel pressure regulator? Best bet to check pump delivery is to rig up a temporary fuel pressure gauge. Even better is to fit a pressure sensor and log it in Megatune.

ambraa · 06-18-2009, 10:18 PM

Thank you for the tip lateapex31!

I did some more testing yesterday and the max dutycycle value is 71%. This comes as big spike in the graph, so that might just be me beeing a bit too brutal with the throttle. I also noticed that the map signal is constant at 15...I'm using alpha-n, so I don't know how much effect the map value has on fuel, but there is clearly something wrong there.

I've also been wondering if there is just some setting(s) that I got wrong, as the max pulsewidth is 4.1ms (exept for a spike of 15) and dutycycle in the same spot is 36%. But in that point in the VE table I'm already maxed out at 255. I think both the pw and dc could be a lot more, meaning that it potentially could deliver a lot more fuel, or am I doing the math/thinking wrong here?

The pressure regulator is built in to the pump unit (Honda TRX680). A friend of mine has a tester so I will try that first.

Ambraa

03-23-2009, 01:42 PM	#37
fritzcoinc Enjoying my last V8 Joined: Apr 2008 Location: Cypress, Tx Oddometer: 5,306	Got update? Worthless without pics. __________________ Regards Fritzcoinc 96 XR650L, 96 Guzzi Sport, 07 BMW K1200GT, 86 Husky 400 XCE, 03 Harley Road King Police, 00 Husky Te 610 e, 1999 Husky TC610 SM,

03-23-2009, 01:52 PM	#38
Megamoto Yes, I do look like this. Joined: Dec 2005 Location: You know...I think I've been here before. Oddometer: 1,735	Stick with it kiddo. We'll all buy the kit. __________________ Guerrilla Moto diplomacy. Higher level simians as ambassadors of vroom to skewer ignorance and amalgamate ideas globally. I'm so happy I could whistle through my willie. (Dan Walsh) Per Ardua ad Astra

03-30-2009, 03:03 PM	#40
ambraa ^OP Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Oslo, Norway Oddometer: 70	Got most of the cables routed and sorted out the settings for a good idle this weekend. There is a lot of values that effect each other in startup/idle (cranking pulse, after start enrichment, warmup enrichment, VE table, req_fuel) so it took some time to get it right. Now the idle is smooth and stable and the bike fires right away, even in -8C. I have to touch up the welds on the oiltemp adapter (leaks) and connect an extra hose to the fuelpump reservoir to get rid of the air inside it. Some times the fuel will not enter the reservoir so I'm hoping that a breather hose to the top of the gas tank will solve it. The rest of the system seems to be working fine....only thing is that the throttlebodies might not work as good as I hoped. The throttle response from idle is really crisp compared to stock but on bigger throttle movement the vacuum slides seem to be moving too slowly. I hope this will be different when driving (load) or else I think the feel will be much like the old carbs (NOT good)....time will tell I guess. Found out the GSXR600 01-03 has a 36mm TB which without the second set of butterflies might be a good plan B later. Added some PICTURES too this time. Cool to see that so many still are interested in this project I'm sorry to disappoint those hoping for a bolt on kit. My bike is quite heavily modified so most of the stuff I've made for it will not fit on a standard DR. But if someone want's to try I'll be happy to help and to share drawings, tuning files, etc. ambraa screwed with this post 03-30-2009 at 09:03 PM

05-03-2009, 02:15 AM	#42
ambraa ^OP Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Oslo, Norway Oddometer: 70	Hi Lukas Yes, you're right, that's the front end and wheels from a 2004 R6. (If you want to know more about the bike I posted some info in the DR owners tread...ca page 20 I think) How are your Cobra doing? Are you building from scratch or using a donor car? I've put my FI project on hold for a couple of weeks now as I had to sort out the last few issues with the DMW....all the mods have been approved and I will have my licence plate on wednesday! Have been working on it for about one and a half years, so it's a good feeling I've tried some new parts since last update on the FI. The GSXR TB's fits quite good. They are not bolt on, but the good thing is that they will fit inside the original rubber intakes. The outer diameter is about 1mm larger than the DR carbs so a bit of extra force is needed. So far the intakes holds up fine with no signs of cracks from the extra "stretching". The spacing is about 2mm wider than the carbs and is easily fixed with a file. The hard part was the fuelrail as it's made of aluminum. The old fuel residues inside it developed gases when heated, so welding it without leaks was a bit tricky. What's not so good is that the inner diameter turned out to be 38mm, not 36 as the local sales rep told me. The moral is, always use at least two sources for information...a quick google search would have told me they were 38mm.... Also looked at a fuel pump from a KTM 690. It's really small with a separate fuel regulator. Both the pump and the regulator is fitted from the outside of the fueltank. A friend of mine is using these on the Brudeli Leanster and I think the mounting brackets he's using can be welded to my gastank and the stock DR tank. The bad thing is that KTM parts are expensive ($380 total in the US, probably more in Europe). Here is the parts fiche from KTM and some pictures of the GSXR TB's. ambraa screwed with this post 05-03-2009 at 03:03 AM

06-14-2009, 02:36 PM	#43
ambraa ^OP Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Oslo, Norway Oddometer: 70	Finally Running Well, then the DR BIG is up and running. Have been some frustration since last update, but things seem to be working ok now. The final setup is this: Microsquirt FI GSXR600 2003 TB's and injectors GM IAT and CLT sensors Twin Air foam air filters Honda TRX680 fuel pump Thers is still some problems to adress as this system dosen't seem to deliver enough fuel. The VE table values for 75-100% TPS in high RPM maxes out (255). I've got relatively small dutycycle on the injectors, so I suspect it's the pump that's too small. But when riding without wide open throttle things are working very good, smooth and with crisp throttle response. The next step will be to fit an in-tank pump from a CBR954 into the TRX680 reservoir....just have to wait for it to arrive from the states. Ebay makes things a lot easier ambraa screwed with this post 06-15-2009 at 12:39 AM

02-25-2009, 07:20 AM	#32
ambraa ^OP Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Oslo, Norway Oddometer: 70	I allready got the LC-1 with a gauge to have some control of the AFR while riding. I'm planning to log the data from the microsquirt with a laptop and use the logviewer software to get a base setting.

03-15-2009, 01:48 PM	#33
ambraa ^OP Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Oslo, Norway Oddometer: 70	It's alive Got the bike idling yesterday. The fuel-calculators I have used said the R6 injectors could be too small, so I was a bit worried, but it turned out to be the oposite. I had to adjust the req_fuel very low and use alternating squirts to get it started. I don't think this is good, because the valves have separate ports and then one valve won't get any fuel, just air each cycle. But the idle is ok, so I might be wrong. I didn't get much time to play around with the values so there might as well be some settings that are off. Usually I like the winter and the snow, but now I'm really looking forward to some dry roads so I can start testing

03-23-2009, 10:38 AM	#34
cRAsH Banned Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Nicetown, USA Oddometer: 19,324

03-23-2009, 01:15 PM	#36
bluesman Beastly Adventurer Joined: Feb 2007 Location: Hoegaarden, Belgium Oddometer: 2,993	this is extremely interesting project, I am really anxiously waiting for news. I think DR will be hell of a bike with well setup FI - may be not tha much more power, but much "quiker" reaction and soooo easy to tune It's utterly brilliant work.

06-18-2009, 03:16 PM	#44
lateapex31 Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2008 Location: Boston, MA Oddometer: 182	What do you have for a fuel pressure regulator? Best bet to check pump delivery is to rig up a temporary fuel pressure gauge. Even better is to fit a pressure sensor and log it in Megatune. __________________ I am the gun lobby.

06-18-2009, 10:18 PM	#45
ambraa ^OP Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Oslo, Norway Oddometer: 70	Thank you for the tip lateapex31! I did some more testing yesterday and the max dutycycle value is 71%. This comes as big spike in the graph, so that might just be me beeing a bit too brutal with the throttle. I also noticed that the map signal is constant at 15...I'm using alpha-n, so I don't know how much effect the map value has on fuel, but there is clearly something wrong there. I've also been wondering if there is just some setting(s) that I got wrong, as the max pulsewidth is 4.1ms (exept for a spike of 15) and dutycycle in the same spot is 36%. But in that point in the VE table I'm already maxed out at 255. I think both the pw and dc could be a lot more, meaning that it potentially could deliver a lot more fuel, or am I doing the math/thinking wrong here? The pressure regulator is built in to the pump unit (Honda TRX680). A friend of mine has a tester so I will try that first. Ambraa

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