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Old 03-10-2010, 06:14 PM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datchew
AW. How's the points dilmena progressing?
See airhead points timing mystery. In short, nothing to report.
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:14 PM   #377
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I've entered week number 2 of waiting for a new rear shock after fedex royally f###ed things up. I have nothing but time so here we go. Photo update:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=530663&page=6
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R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:08 PM   #378
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Cylinder base leak

A while back when changing oil I spilled a bit on the top of the left cylinder just next to the filler hole. I didn't bother cleaning it up really so a nice oily dust film was created. After a few weeks I noticed it hadn't really gone away, despite plenty of rainy riding. Hmmm. Had it actually gotten bigger? I wiped away the oil and dust and got it nice and shiney clean. I rode for a few days and sure enough a new coating of dust indicated a slight weep at the top rear of the cylinder base. What would cause this out of the blue? Undertorqued top rear stud? I don't have access to a torque wrench currently, so I can't check it, but I can get my hands on one in Baltimore.
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R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:57 PM   #379
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Or in a worse case scenario...you have a pulled stud.

Be careful when you get the torque wrench.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:11 AM   #380
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Another reason I never felt the need to torque the studs at valve inspections / adjustments like many folks. I rode my 96 oilhead GS for > 100K miles and never touched the studs after the 600 mile initial check. Of course I never had the top end off.

Tom
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:18 AM   #381
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Hopefully the nut just came loose. Open the canoworms valve cover and just looksee?
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:53 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infracaninophile
Another reason I never felt the need to torque the studs at valve inspections / adjustments like many folks. I rode my 96 oilhead GS for > 100K miles and never touched the studs after the 600 mile initial check. Of course I never had the top end off.

Tom
We're talking different designs and metallurgy here. There were a few years where the airhead engine case metal was a little on the soft side and if you torqued the heads to the then spec of 28lbs..you ran a pretty good risk of pulling a stud over time.

So the memo came out from on high that the MAX torque for the final setting was 25 lbs.

The Oilhead doesn't have the same heat, design, or metallurgy problems..so a pulled stud is WAY less common than on airheads. Only if King Kong gets in there without a torque wrench do you have a problem.

For airheads, torque at build, retorque after a few heat/cold engine cycles and then at 5K miles....after that, it's just checking the valve clearances for deltas over time.

But one sign of a pulled stud -or a loose nut on the valve train,,,is an oil mist from one side of a cylinder where the cylinder is slightly rocking.

Hope it's just the nut
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:32 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemerguru
We're talking different designs and metallurgy here. There were a few years where the airhead engine case metal was a little on the soft side and if you torqued the heads to the then spec of 28lbs..you ran a pretty good risk of pulling a stud over time.

So the memo came out from on high that the MAX torque for the final setting was 25 lbs.

The Oilhead doesn't have the same heat, design, or metallurgy problems..so a pulled stud is WAY less common than on airheads. Only if King Kong gets in there without a torque wrench do you have a problem.

For airheads, torque at build, retorque after a few heat/cold engine cycles and then at 5K miles....after that, it's just checking the valve clearances for deltas over time.

But one sign of a pulled stud -or a loose nut on the valve train,,,is an oil mist from one side of a cylinder where the cylinder is slightly rocking.

Hope it's just the nut
Well said.
After going through this, my $0.02 is to torque at these mile intervals:
5, 500, 5000, and then every 10k if you really want, otherwise, not at all until valves start to change/close or you have headwork done.

Here's the indicators of a pulled stud. Notice the small gap between the nut and the rocker housing.

Hope you don't have to go through this.






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Old 03-31-2010, 05:38 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datchew
Well said.
After going through this, my $0.02 is to torque at these mile intervals:
5, 500, 5000, and then every 10k if you really want, otherwise, not at all until valves start to change/close or you have headwork done.

Here's the indicators of a pulled stud. Notice the small gap between the nut and the rocker housing.

Hope you don't have to go through this.
I'm wondering if maybe mine didn't pull completely, but maybe just pulled the threads out a little bit without completely stripping. My bike's in a crate now and about to be loaded on a boat, so I won't be able to check any of this for another 3 weeks, but we'll revisit it then. It's going to baltimore and one of the guys I'm travelling with used to be a wrench at Bob's so we should be able to handle it on the other end... whatever the problem may be. Anyway, exploring other ideas, is there any way you can leak out of the cylinder base with all studs torqued correctly? Is it possible for them to spontaneously start leaking for no apparent reason? Any other reason besides a pulled or undertorqued stud?
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R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
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Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:18 PM   #385
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blown head gasket. Usually shows up higher on the cylinder, though, not the base.

Its possible for the steel stud to pull the aluminum threads loose from their moorings, without appearing loose to the touch. Just yanks them out a bit. It will just keep spinning, though, when you try to take up on it. I know you know this but the torque wrench in this case is not to make sure its snug enough, but to keep one from over torqueing it.

Otherwise it can happen if you've accidentally mushed one of those small orings that live in the upper stud recesses. But that will occur just after you install it. Not a long time after.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:52 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Stagehand
Otherwise it can happen if you've accidentally mushed one of those small orings that live in the upper stud recesses. But that will occur just after you install it. Not a long time after.
Yeah, in my case, I've never even had the heads or cylinders off. I've backed the torque off the studs and retorqued them (can't remember which cylinder it was) when I had to take up some rocker end play about 20,000 miles ago, but other than that it's the factory build.
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R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:20 PM   #387
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did you smack that side hard in a crash?
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:43 PM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoodsoil
did you smack that side hard in a crash?
Yes. All three of my crashes have been on the left side, but the leak showed up well after any of the crashes. Also it's the top rear stud on the left side. I would think that if a crash loosens anything up it would be one or both of the front studs provided you go down with forward motion and not somehow in reverse. Hmmm, got me thinking though.
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R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:34 AM   #389
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So when does the boat arrive...you've got everyone waiting to see who wins the pool
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:29 PM   #390
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So when does the boat arrive...you've got everyone waiting to see who wins the pool
3-4 weeks. That's assuming it leaves soon though. It hasn't yet.
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R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
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