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Old 05-29-2013, 02:01 PM   #781
Beater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Me too. Airhead parts keep going up, while early oilhead parts are being sold by the pound. The more oilhead parts I use, the longer I can keep my newer airhead on the road.
Good point. Stock up!
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:24 AM   #782
Clay Spinner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
As I recall from reading that stuff a long time ago, the oilhead final drive failures were due to the final drives coming from the factory shimmed with too much preload on the bearing. It wasn't a problem inherent to the design. Couple that with the fact that the bike is heavier and more powerful and it further increases the risk of failure.
That was my issue with my 1150GSA... I changed the bearing and shims and it felt much better... in that I was able to 'back peddle' and actually move the bike!
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:28 AM   #783
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Well you know what route I took, and it's been educational. I'm lacing the milled, four lug hub, to an 18" Akront rim as we speak. Then we'll be riding the beast for the summer. PS - Only going for 6mm of offset because with the 2.6 inch wide Akront 18" rim, I can only get away with a 130 rear wheel.

I understand the want to keep the 'parts' that go on the bike stock ... but are you concerned about anything else? Having an oilhead rear end would be 'blingy', but for 'bullet-proofness' ... I was under the impression that the mono was the way to go.

Are you mating the r100gs hubb to a st or g/s rim? If so I was of the idea that this wouldn't work due to spoke angle/number due to the tubless deisgn of the r100gs rear. If it would work it would be great as I have spares of both in the garage!
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:38 AM   #784
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Originally Posted by Clay Spinner View Post
Are you mating the r100gs hubb to a st or g/s rim? If so I was of the idea that this wouldn't work due to spoke angle/number due to the tubless deisgn of the r100gs rear. If it would work it would be great as I have spares of both in the garage!
GS (Paralever) hub to a monolever final drive.

http://www.stephenbottcher.net/BMW/paraconv.htm
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:56 AM   #785
Clay Spinner
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Originally Posted by Beater View Post
GS (Paralever) hub to a monolever final drive.

http://www.stephenbottcher.net/BMW/paraconv.htm
Got that... but I thought paralever rims were 17inch not 18? I'm going to need to google this... My assumption being that you milled the paralever hubb and fit the rim from a g/s or st (i.e. akront 18inch rim).

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Old 05-30-2013, 09:10 AM   #786
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Alright. Wiring question for the wiring people. In motorcycle applications when sizing wires do you go by the "chassis wiring" rating which is significantly higher than the "power transmission" rating? The answer seems obvious "it's a vehicle, use the chassis rating", but the chassis wiring rating assumes open single wire, not wrapped up in wiring harness with many other wires. I wish Robert was around to field this one. For example, motogadget calls out a minimum wire size of 15ga for a 10A circuit. 15ga wire has a chassis rating of 28A and a power transmission rating of 4.7A. If I were to go by the chassis rating I could use 20ga for a 10A circuit. Are they just going with the chassis rating plus a hefty safety factor? Somebody clear this business up for me.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:15 AM   #787
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Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Alright. Wiring question for the wiring people. In motorcycle applications when sizing wires do you go by the "chassis wiring" rating which is significantly higher than the "power transmission" rating? The answer seems obvious, but the chassis wiring rating assumes open single wire, not wrapped up in wiring harness with many other wires. I wish Robert was around to field this one.
Oh, I found it., THe difference is CHASSIS values are assumes for those wrapped up in a harness, while PT values are for a wire in open air. " For power transmission, voltage drop across long wires is the issue, not overheating, since the wire is not confined and the heat would not build up. For chassis bundle applications, the wire is short enough that voltage drop is not an issue, but overheating would be caused by heat build up. It so happens that the requirements for voltage drop require less current than the requirements for overheating for a given diameter. In addition, the chassis level wiring is often fused at less than the current rating anyway, so the maximum current rating given is not used."

Stolen from the internet
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:34 AM   #788
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Originally Posted by Stagehand View Post
I certainly dont have Robert's expertise, but i would essentially run a wire size commensurate with anticipated load, obviously. Maybe by going by NEC standards I'm singing in the wrong key, though
Yeah, but then I'd have to use HUGE wires. The m-unit box has it's own breakers in it which allow you to get rid of all your fuses. Most of the load circuits have a 10A trip, but in order to safely run up to 10A per NEC I'd need to wire the whole damn bike in 12ga, which is obviously WAY overkill. Motogadget calls out 15ga minimum for their 10A circuits. I'm assuming they're running off the chassis wiring rating with a safety factor of about 2.8. They also call out 7ga wire for the main positive supply which has a 60A breaker. 7ga wire has a chassis rating of 89A and a power transmission rating of 30A. WTF.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:37 AM   #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Alright. Wiring question for the wiring people. In motorcycle applications when sizing wires do you go by the "chassis wiring" rating which is significantly higher than the "power transmission" rating? The answer seems obvious, but the chassis wiring rating assumes open single wire, not wrapped up in wiring harness with many other wires. I wish Robert was around to field this one. For example, motogadget calls out a minimum wire size of 15ga for a 10A circuit. 15ga wire has a chassis rating of 28A and a power transmission rating of 4.7A. If I were to go by the chassis rating I could use 20ga for a 10A circuit. Somebody clear this business up for me.
I'm not a wiring person per se, but I do work in electronics and am somewhat familiar with the engineering of these sorts of things. That said, I'd go with the higher rating. If you need 30A to pass through a wire, don't get wire that specifies 30A because the spec on the wire is not nominal, it is max. At 30A, the wire may survive the 1000 hours of testing they put it through, but it will get hot and deteriorate faster over time. The bigger the wire, the less resistance to current, thus the less it heats up, and the longer it lasts. Go with the same size as the original harness had unless you plan to add more to that line.

Edit: You guys got ahead of me while I was writing and I must have been confused by the original question. I think what Jason said is on the right track. Transmission is for lines over a length, the longer the wire, the more resistance, thus lower transmission specs. Chassis wiring is short, go with that, use the old wiring as a guide.

Out of curiosity, since I'll be redoing my entire harness one of these days as well, what size ARE most of the common wires in the harness? I haven't checked yet. Also, where are you getting wire from, and are you going with the stock colors? Are you changing connectors as well? I was going to go with this company for the wire, but most places require a minimum order of 100ft for $35, which at about 20 different colors, comes to $700. So I was going to wait until I had the money for it then build harnesses and sell them. I was also considering changing all the connectors to Delphi sealed metri-pack with gold plated connectors. This style are pretty common at many places, but notice the pita clips that always break? The Delphi ones have much better clip systems. Although that plan was only for the ones I'd make to sell. For myself, I plan on deleting every connector I possibly can in the harness, even soldering the wires directly to all the connections except lights then sealing them with gluey heat shrink and then silicon around that too, leaving extra wire coiled for future replacement. If something fails in the field, I can always carry extra spade clips, and I'll just cut and resolder otherwise. This is because, having worked in electronics, the most common cause of failure is corrosion on low voltage connections from the use of tin plating, and I wanted to bulletproof my wiring. Don't even get me started on my views on tin solder and European regulations.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:43 AM   #790
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Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Yeah, but then I'd have to use HUGE wires. The m-unit box has it's own breakers in it which allow you to get rid of all your fuses. Most of the load circuits have a 10A trip, but in order to safely run up to 10A per NEC I'd need to wire the whole damn bike in 12ga, which is obviously WAY overkill. Motogadget calls out 15ga minimum for their 10A circuits. I'm assuming they're running off the chassis wiring rating with a safety factor of about 2.8. They also call out 7ga wire for the main positive supply which has a 60A breaker. 7ga wire has a chassis rating of 89A and a power transmission rating of 30A. WTF.

I was off by a full song. I'd go with the chassis rating, for sure.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:48 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by Stagehand View Post
I was off by a full song. I'd go with the chassis rating, for sure.
You were mostly right. Bundling isn't an issue, and good auto wire is designed to handle external heat. Heat really isn't the issue at hand, it's the current that causes heat. Like you said, transmission lines are long and high resistance thus lower specs. Chassis lines are short with low resistance, thus much bigger tolerance.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:17 AM   #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Spinner View Post
Are you mating the r100gs hubb to a st or g/s rim? If so I was of the idea that this wouldn't work due to spoke angle/number due to the tubless deisgn of the r100gs rear. If it would work it would be great as I have spares of both in the garage!

No big deal lacing a GS hub to a tube rim..at least on the front, shouldn't be that big of a deal on the back either. Woodies Wheel works did this for me. Triiple cross spoke lace double butted spokes


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Old 05-30-2013, 10:26 AM   #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naginalf View Post
Out of curiosity, since I'll be redoing my entire harness one of these days as well, what size ARE most of the common wires in the harness? I haven't checked yet. Also, where are you getting wire from, and are you going with the stock colors? Are you changing connectors as well? I was going to go with this company for the wire, but most places require a minimum order of 100ft for $35, which at about 20 different colors, comes to $700. So I was going to wait until I had the money for it then build harnesses and sell them. I was also considering changing all the connectors to Delphi sealed metri-pack with gold plated connectors. This style are pretty common at many places, but notice the pita clips that always break?.

I ran into the same problem and I found an ebay seller that sells 5ft lengths of automotive primary wire in any of 50+ different color/stripe combinations for $2.50 a piece. Not cheap on a $/ft basis, but for small quantities of so many colors it works out a lot better than buying spools.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GXL-automoti...item3cbcd62503

I also planned on using the metripack-style connectors. I've never had problems with the clips on them breaking, but there are a 1001 different knock-offs of the same connectors out there and I'm sure some are better than others. I was going to use these because of the 4, 5, and 6 position blocks they make.

http://www.sptpanel.com/Seal-All_Connectors.htm
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:34 AM   #794
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HPN style para conversion

can you set up a frame to work for both a monolever and a HPN style paralever setup?

Obvious first point is that the upper lateral subframe mounting points may get in the way of the monolever's shock mounting point and/or shock movement. If this is the case the frame cannot be set-up to be modular for the HPN route.

TAG's route should allow for no frame work as it uses the 100GS frame shock mounting point.

How much is the HPN subframe structure? Do they keep these things in stock or are there crazy lead times? Who else makes this?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Haven't totally made up my mind yet.

The three shock mounting options I'm considering are:

1: Bolt on shock subframe ala HPN, Crazy Ivan, that other Israeli guy, among others




2: Welded-on shock mount like SWT




3: Modify the swingarm to use the R100GS shock mount, (maybe same shock too??) like TAG does

Pros: shock stays out to the side, so no need to relocate battery, can chop off stock shock mount on the swingarm which would allow 18" wheel
Cons: the shock is much more exposed to debris and probably wouldn't last as long, modifying the swingarm needs to be very carefully considered.




The other consideration is which final drive to use: Oilhead (3.20:1 or 3.00:1) or airhead (3.09:1)

Gearing ratio aside, the other issue is that of brakes and driveshafts. Either way I'll need an oilhead driveshaft. If I opt to use the airhead final drive (which I already have) I'll need to fit the spline bell from the R100 shaft to the end of the oilhead shaft to mate up with the splines on the final drive. I'd also need to make a longer rear brake cable. If go for an oilhead final drive it would allow me to use the oilhead driveshaft unmodified, give me a disk brake, but it'd result on a deeper dish on the rear wheel and I'd need to weld mounts onto the main frame for a rear master cylinder as well as modify my brake pedal to push it. There you go, Fred. Those are my thoughts on the matter. ...or I could just go the smarter route and fit a lengthened monolever.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:03 AM   #795
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Hey Ras, as the basic one is NLA i am going to get a few made up in early august if you are interested. They will be designed to fit around richie's mods/shock and with mounting points for a rack for soft bags when touring. I shall be using 3mm instead of the 2mm as standard on oem g/s and st subframes. Give me a shout if you are interested and i will try to get a few more made.
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