New 4.5 Liter Diesel Trucks

[MeterPig]

The diesel vs. gas debate rages on.

I owned a 6.2L diesel. The worst part was educating the masses that it was not a converted gas engine. That was the worst. People running around..."oh, your motor is going to blow". The when I told them that the motor was developed Detroit (as in big rigs), their head exploded. I really got into the whole 6.2/6.5L scene. I ended up selling the burb not because the motor had issues, but because the body around it did. Windows breaking, leaks, tranny blew (previous owner abuse) etc. In the end, I realized that all the work on the truck would be done by me and me alone. Even the dealerships were like deer in the headlights when explaining an issue.

America just isn't a light duty diesel country for a multitude of reason just like we are not a motorcycle country.

Personally, I really like the new Dodge 3500's. Not because it is practical, but because they are cool. Instead I drive the next coolest rig, my 4runner which will get me in and out of trouble far better.

[Just_Sean]

Run the numbers through a calculator like this: http://www.mpgomatic.com/mileage_calculator.html
Diesel fuel is cheaper than gasoline in Europe, therefore a diesel that gets better mileage makes sense.

Here in the US, where they tax truckers by taxing the fuel, making diesel $1 - $1.50 a gallon more, it doesn't make financial sense.

I ran the numbers for the new Jetta wagon, gas v diesel. For the $4000+ higher price on the diesel, it would take approx 27 years to make up the price difference in fuel costs alone.

THAT is the main reason the US doesn't do many diesels.

Tax the commercial trucks by some other means, and bring the price of the fuel back on par with gas, and it will make financial sense.

[koncha]

Originally Posted by Just_Sean

Run the numbers through a calculator like this: http://www.mpgomatic.com/mileage_calculator.html
Diesel fuel is cheaper than gasoline in Europe, therefore a diesel that gets better mileage makes sense.

Here in the US, where they tax truckers by taxing the fuel, making diesel $1 - $1.50 a gallon more, it doesn't make financial sense.

I ran the numbers for the new Jetta wagon, gas v diesel. For the $4000+ higher price on the diesel, it would take approx 27 years to make up the price difference in fuel costs alone.

THAT is the main reason the US doesn't do many diesels.

Tax the commercial trucks by some other means, and bring the price of the fuel back on par with gas, and it will make financial sense.

How does the payoff change when the TDI goes against a new Fusion hybrid with 41 city 37 highway?

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Just_Sean

I ran the numbers for the new Jetta wagon, gas v diesel. For the $4000+ higher price on the diesel, it would take approx 27 years to make up the price difference in fuel costs alone.

THAT is the main reason the US doesn't do many diesels.

Have you driven a 2009 Jetta? Talk to your friends at Dirito in Walnut Creek, they would be glad to let you take an extended test drive - see what it can do. Maybe,, you'll be impressed.

Tax the commercial trucks by some other means, and bring the price of the fuel back on par with gas, and it will make financial sense.

I agree we should tax the trucks by some other means, but this (smarter fuel taxes and incentives for fuel-efficient vehicles) is a tough one to get right.

[Just_Sean]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Have you driven a 2009 Jetta? Talk to your friends at Dirito in Walnut Creek, they would be glad to let you take an extended test drive - see what it can do. Maybe,, you'll be impressed.

I agree we should tax the trucks by some other means, but this (smarter fuel taxes and incentives for fuel-efficient vehicles) is a tough one to get right.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want one - I'm saying that the people who go out and buy one for better fuel economy are just fooling themselves with the fuel cost differential.

Like the people who traded in their 1 or 2 year old civic for a hybrid that got 10mpg more, but cost them thousands up front. When gas is $4+ a gallon, the cost is recouped rather quickly. Not so much at $1.75 a gallon.

So long as diesel is taxed heavily, rather than somewhat subsidized as in some European countries, I don't see the diesels being sold on a large scale, which would reduce the cost difference.

If I could buy the little Lancia here that I rented in Italy at a decent price, I would. Small car, seats 5 (4 adults comfortably), easy to par in tiny places, 1.3 l CDI that got ~60mpg cruising the Autostrada at 140kph sounds good to me

[Just_Sean]

Originally Posted by koncha

How does the payoff change when the TDI goes against a new Fusion hybrid with 41 city 37 highway?

If you split 50/50 hwy/city

15,000 miles per year

Fusion w/ gas at $1.75 avg mpg 39 = 0.045 a mile or $675 annual fuel cost

Jetta TDI wagon w/ diesel at $2.99 avg mpg 36 (30c/41h) = 0.083 mile or $1245 annual fuel cost

If the price of the fuels were on par, the difference would only be $60 a year in the hybrid's favor.

[UnderNewOwnership]

Originally Posted by Just_Sean

Diesel fuel is cheaper than gasoline in Europe, therefore a diesel that gets better mileage makes sense.

I really wish people stopped using that tired line. It hasn't been true for a long while now. Around here (after doing the required conversions) a (US) gallon of the cheapest diesel is 55 to 60 cents more expensive than a gallon of the cheapest petrol. Even at its lowest price point, the cheapest diesel was 40+ cents more per gallon than its benzin equivalent.

[Ghostrider304]

As long as diesel sells for more money than gas in this country we will not see the share of diesel vehicles here. Over seas diesels sell for less than gas and so it makes sense that everyone drives a diesel powered car. People here are the same was with gas back to under a $1.50 and diesel still over $2 in most places it is not hard to see that a gas powered car is gonna get alot more attention than some dieselpowered.

Just my $.02.

Will-

[tslewisz]

Originally Posted by tslewisz

Well, I think that's BS. The heavy duty (Dodge 2/3500, GM 2/3500, Ford F2/350) diesel pickups would be more of a worry and they're still making those.

Originally Posted by gator_motorrad

the one ton duallys, i understand. but how would it not hurt sales of the 3/4 ton?

We have a terminology problem. My perspective is that all pickups are "light duty trucks". Semi tractor-trailers and the like are "heavy duty trucks". Medium duty trucks fall between, like Ford F550's, etc.

[allan16]

We'll see these here before a diesel 1/2 ton PU from any the Detroit genius pool.

[jdiaz]

Originally Posted by Just_Sean

Jetta TDI wagon w/ diesel at $2.99 avg mpg 36 (30c/41h) = 0.083 mile or $1245 annual fuel cost

I was at the VW dealer getting an oil change today, and they had 4-5 Jetta TDI sedans and wagons in stock. Dunno what happened to their "25 person waiting list," but it seems these cars are quite plentiful now.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by jdiaz

I was at the VW dealer getting an oil change today, and they had 4-5 Jetta TDI sedans and wagons in stock. Dunno what happened to their "25 person waiting list," but it seems these cars are quite plentiful now.

"4-5 cars on the floor" is another way of saying "please, make me an offer, I need to get these out of inventory." Sounds like good news for anyone shopping for a new clean and fast diesel.

[FXRocket]

Originally Posted by allan16

We'll see these here before a diesel 1/2 ton PU from any the Detroit genius pool.

True, if Dodge keeps it together they will have a better truck with an awesome motor for about the same money. being first to market may help the import, but it will not compare to a new 1/2 ton Dodge.

[100mpg]

Originally Posted by allan16

We'll see these here before a diesel 1/2 ton PU from any the Detroit genius pool.

You are not kidding, next year! and the diesel hybrid in 2010!

Next year, diesel hybrid version by 2010

[GSbiker]

Maybe they will bring this over too.