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Old 01-20-2009, 09:39 PM   #136
bimmerx2
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Reality check...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3power
I understand where you are coming from. I believe, though, that the govt will keep mandating new laws if you allow them to get started. ie - first helmets mandatory, then full gear, then they decide bikes are too dangerous and they ban them altogether. Personal safety is not a government responsibility. Public safety is - but you can't argue that wearing a helmet is making the public safer, it just makes that one person safer.
...
So are you of the opinion that government hasn't been mandating laws in this country for the past, oh 230 something years? I think that horse left the barn a long long time ago.

Personally, I can see the attraction of not wearing any gear but splattering my brains on the sidewalk in a tip over is just not worth it to me. I've seen it happen to someone else at less than 10 MPH and it SUCKED! For others that want to have a choice, I'm starting not to care so much - as long as they never ever ask me to support what's left after the head knocker...

Plus, I look a lot better with the helmet on..
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:52 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerx2
So are you of the opinion that government hasn't been mandating laws in this country for the past, oh 230 something years? I think that horse left the barn a long long time ago.
If you didn't take the statement out of context, you would understand that my implication is that the govt ALWAYS creates excessive regulations when they get started on something. That's my point - let them mandate gear, then next thing you know motorcycles will be considered too dangerous to "allow".
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:01 PM   #138
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Say what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3power
If you didn't take the statement out of context, you would understand that my implication is that the govt ALWAYS creates excessive regulations when they get started on something. That's my point - let them mandate gear, then next thing you know motorcycles will be considered too dangerous to "allow".
Out of context...

Don't flatter yourself dude it's not that complex of an opinion.

MY point is that 'government' has been mandating rules since some caveman and his buddies figured out how to impose thier will on the rest of the tribe. I'm not saying I like it but unless you're advocating full blown anarchy I don't see that coming to an end anytime soon.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:27 AM   #139
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Problem with helmet / seat belt laws

As I see it (and I don't claim to be omniscient), one big problem with helmet / seat belt / safety equipment laws is that many advocates of said laws seem to believe that these laws are the major part of the solution to the problem of rider and driver safety, and that it essentially ends there.

What is really needed is more and better rider (and driver!) training/education. Rider training needs to be more readily available, and there needs to be more/better driver training that teaches not only operation of a car and rules of the road, but also awareness of and the active scanning for motorcyclists, bicyclists and pedestrians. You don't see what you're not looking for, and driver training (where it still exists) is sorely lacking in this regard. (Reducing the total number of crashes (cycle or automobile) would by default reduce the number of injuries/fatalities, which is the stated goal of the aforementioned "safety" laws. But equipment laws are cheaper/easier to put in place than effective rider/driver training.)

Anecdotally, my relatives started "seeing" a lot more motorcyclists once I started riding. Now that I think about it, I did too. Probably because I/they started double checking for them more actively once I/they were aware of the need. I suspect there are a significant number of riders out there that have had a similar experience.

All of that said, there have been many times I did not ride because of the time required for gear / warming bike, etc. - but almost invariably, it was a time/effort trade off related to a very short commute in which ATGATT and warming the bike would triple the time involved, or I was running late. If I'm in a hurry or my mind is elsewhere, I'll take the cage...
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:07 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetiger7654
I love to ride my bike many for many reasons. But sometimes it seems like ATGATT takes the fun and desire out of it. I may be thinking great weather today, but when I think about getting all geared up I'm just like forget it. It's more like work. Do you guys ever get like this?
I got that a lot when I only lived 9 miles form work. It took almost as long to gear up and warm up the bike as it did to get to work. Missed out on a lot of nice days that way.

I live farther away now, and on a VERY fun road. Now from April/May to November my truck uses a tank of gas every 4-6 weeks instead of every 4-6 DAYS.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:15 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wandererrob
I got that a lot when I only lived 9 miles form work.
After a few people saying that here, I think that's my problem. I live 3 miles from work, so it does take as long to get there as to gear up.
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:16 PM   #142
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Usually wear it all the time, but for running around town.... sometimes not. On the highway it's atgatt. Definitely a roll of the dice!
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:46 PM   #143
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does wearing a condom take the fun out of sex? maybe some, but getting a nasty case of herpes or the clap sucks - and sometimes it's fatal as in AIDS.
So, ATTATT!
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:45 AM   #144
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Nope, no ATGATT

The only thing I never ride with is my helmet.
I go without jacket, riding pants, boots.
I wear short pants, t-shirts and hiking boots. Sometimes on longer runs I wear jeans and gloves.
But I'm looking into an airflow jacket in the near future.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:21 AM   #145
markk53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetiger7654
After a few people saying that here, I think that's my problem. I live 3 miles from work, so it does take as long to get there as to gear up.
I personally am very concious of the fact that if I am riding close to home and that is where I can get lax. So on the bike, without jacket etc, I am very attentive to what is going on. It is just that simple, familiarity can breed lack of attention. So I try to keep that in mind. Putting on the helmet and gloves (yeah, gloves - the grips make my hands "dirty".J) makes me think and be concious of this possibility. That is why I used to put on and fasten my helmet when I'd take my bike a half block to work when I needed to use it for errands through the day.

Besides, when it comes to ATGATT, if it was good enough for Rollie Free - it's good enough for me!
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:34 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudBugger
The only thing I never ride with is my helmet.
I go without jacket, riding pants, boots.
I wear short pants, t-shirts and hiking boots. Sometimes on longer runs I wear jeans and gloves.
But I'm looking into an airflow jacket in the near future.
I am a lot like you. I will tell you the best jacket I got for hot weather is an old First Gear Timbuktu (not the later longer HG version coat). This was pre-mesh, but even after seeing my friends using the mesh jackets I'll stick with this one. It works great, I don't seem to get any hotter and sweaty than they do. Most of the mesh jackets are black too.

The thing that really sold me on it was the LONG sleeve zipper vents, the zip/snap front, velcro adjust cuffs, and the full width double pull zipper back cape vent. It also has a 3/4 sleeve Thinsulate liner, which I actually leave in most of the time regardless of temp, plus hard cup shoulder and dense foam elbow/forearm pads which I seldom actually use, but more often now.

The other thing is that it has almost no dark (black) color panels on it. the sleeves and lower portion are red, the shoulder/cape area is white (wish it was red, gets really dirty), and a few very small black highlights. This makes a BIG difference in the sun. Any coat I get for warm weather use will NEVER be black and if possible, never have black on it. The black just sucks up the heat. My HG Boost cold weather coat has proven that when I've had it on and the weather turns even slightly warm and sunny.

I find the FG jacket to be even cooler to wear than going without a coat when it is hot and sunny. When it is hot I will snap the front, keep the cuffs slightly loose, open the sleeves usually about 1/3-1/2 way, and zip the back pulls to the center. Like I said, I seldom take out the liner, even though there is a pocket on the back where it can be stuffed. The jacket works great as long as you're moving, no coat works good when you're stopped. The flow is excellent. With the vents zipped up and cuffs closed, the coat is reasonably warm when the temps drop a bit. The thing is it is a short waist (Eisenhower, for you old guys out there) jacket and the 3/4 sleeves aren't as good as full sleeves.

In other words, look for light color and good vent flow paths through sleeves, chest, and back. Avoid black or dark colors for sure. If you go mesh, still keep the idea of a ligher color in mind. Also that you may need the added overcoat or liner that they use to block the wind when the temps drop.
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:00 AM   #147
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My idea of minimum gear has changed over time. Full gear is great in theory, but in hot weather I moderate it and wear a open face helmet (Arai SZ), Olympia Patton jacket, gloves, kevlar jeans, and hiking boots. Knowing I don't have hip or knee pads concerns me but I have to concede something to comfort. If you are too uncomfortable there is just no point in riding.

Forty years ago it was helmet, gloves, jeans, and light-weight boots on hot days and I added a leather jacket when it was cooler. In those days we had the excuse that good gear was hard to find, and the best was none too great.

I can't imagine leaving my driveway without a helmet. In addition to saving your head you need some sort of eye protection. A faceshield is the most convenient way I know to get it.

I won't even ride a bicycle without helmet and gloves. A helmet has saved my life at least once (4 inch gash in the front of a Bell Biker).

If someone wants to ride in Speedos and shower shoes, good luck. You'll need it. I support the right of every citizen to make his own bad choices.

We could start another thread about the relative danger of riding bicycles and motorcycles. I've had more and worse injuries on bicycles, largely because of the minimal gear.
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:55 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slow
I've had more and worse injuries on bicycles, largely because of the minimal gear.
So the lack of gear caused the accident? Or were you perhaps riding outside of your abilities?
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:16 PM   #149
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A few people saying reach for the cage keys if you don't want to take the time to put on gear. Thats not an option. All I have is my bike, and all my my wife has is her bike. The bus goes to her work, so on the rainy days she has the option of buying a bus pass. Just throwing this out there: If it was not an option, and you HAD to get on your motorcycle every day (not that I am complaining ), hot, cold, wet, wind, fog, whatever, would you get tired of strapping on the gear a few times a day? I know I do, but I put most of it on every day anyway. I won't leave the house without the major lifesaver (Fullface helmet) but sometimes in the summer the jacket and boots stay in the apartment.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:03 PM   #150
Allgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudBugger
The only thing I never ride with is my helmet.
I go without jacket, riding pants, boots.
I wear short pants, t-shirts and hiking boots. Sometimes on longer runs I wear jeans and gloves.
But I'm looking into an airflow jacket in the near future.

Calling Charles D. to the white courtesy phone.........
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