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Old 01-25-2009, 03:07 PM   #151
old wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slow
My idea of minimum gear has changed over time. Full gear is great in theory, but in hot weather I moderate it and wear a open face helmet (Arai SZ), Olympia Patton jacket, gloves, kevlar jeans, and hiking boots. Knowing I don't have hip or knee pads concerns me but I have to concede something to comfort. If you are too uncomfortable there is just no point in riding.

Forty years ago it was helmet, gloves, jeans, and light-weight boots on hot days and I added a leather jacket when it was cooler. In those days we had the excuse that good gear was hard to find, and the best was none too great.

I can't imagine leaving my driveway without a helmet. In addition to saving your head you need some sort of eye protection. A faceshield is the most convenient way I know to get it.

I won't even ride a bicycle without helmet and gloves. A helmet has saved my life at least once (4 inch gash in the front of a Bell Biker).

If someone wants to ride in Speedos and shower shoes, good luck. You'll need it. I support the right of every citizen to make his own bad choices.

We could start another thread about the relative danger of riding bicycles and motorcycles. I've had more and worse injuries on bicycles, largely because of the minimal gear.
Yep got to agree....when I got my 1st bike in 1957, the only required gear was a pair of sun glasses....but i was young and indestructable...

Now I use it all....except when I am in Thailand, and I am back to only a helmet and gloves.....
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:04 PM   #152
markk53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allgo
Calling Charles D. to the white courtesy phone.........
Y'know it all too frequently has more to do with HOW you ride than what you wear.

At least that's been my crash free (on the street) experience over the past few decades. It is much better to be observant enough to see what is possibly going on around you than to dress up with all the gear you can buy. Not having the crash seems to work a lot better than hitting that vehicle that failed to stop or yield right of way.

Same is true of practicing hard braking and quick turns. Better to have the actions occur virtually out of instinct for avoidance than have all the gear and crash or run off the road.

This is not to say wearing any safety equipment is not good, it is purely in reaction to your page. If you really believe it, according to nonriders you shouldn't be on a bike for the same reason...
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:46 PM   #153
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I will never trust my vigilance or my riding skills to protect me. The owl in my chest literally out of the blue followed by finding myself on the asphalt at highway speed cured me of that kind of thinking forever.

I was just plain lucky to be wearing a snowmobile suit when that happened. And finding myself almost whole after that crash was when the proverbial light went on. I started buying protective gear after that freak crash.
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:27 AM   #154
markk53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog
I will never trust my vigilance or my riding skills to protect me. The owl in my chest literally out of the blue followed by finding myself on the asphalt at highway speed cured me of that kind of thinking forever.

I was just plain lucky to be wearing a snowmobile suit when that happened. And finding myself almost whole after that crash was when the proverbial light went on. I started buying protective gear after that freak crash.
Yes, nor can you trust your gear to stop an accident. They happen more often than Owls.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

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Old 01-26-2009, 12:02 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53
..... They happen more often than Owls.
One would certainly hope that are a very limited number of Kamikaze owls out there. I will probably get done in by a deer because I am looking up.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:22 PM   #156
StephenB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikonoklass
As long as my intent is to "go for a ride," it doesn't bother me, but it's probably the reason I don't commute to work by motorcycle. The time it takes to get dressed and undressed is almost as long as the commute.
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:50 AM   #157
markk53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog
One would certainly hope that are a very limited number of Kamikaze owls out there. I will probably get done in by a deer because I am looking up.
I have known of two people, one actual relative, who "caught" deer in their laps... not good!

The damn things leap and bound out on the road. The one guy had it take the windshield off his 83 Wing Interstate, land in his lap, and take both he and his girlfriend off the bike along with the back box. Maybe looking up isn't all bad when it comes to mentally impaired (all of them) "bambis". Hell, they run into stopped vehicles.
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Old 01-27-2009, 05:28 AM   #158
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Deer are a constant hazard and the reason I will not ride country roads at night. So far I've never hit one on a bike but two deer simultaneously ran into the side of my moving car last month. Both driver's side doors had to be re-skinned and my year old car repainted. A major nuisance in a car, possibly fatal accident on a bike.

Deer flourish near housing development. They have easier forage in the cleared areas and hunting ceases. I would like to see year-around hunting for a few years to thin the population. Eat more venison!
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Old 01-31-2009, 04:42 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrejs2112
Road rash takes the fun out of riding.
Disagree.

Road rash takes the fun out of crashing.

Fixed it.

Riding is fun with or without gear. Crashing without gear, that's the real problem.
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Old 02-01-2009, 04:01 AM   #160
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When I got back into riding two summers ago I bought a cruiser and the lifestyle. No helmet, leather jacket, jeans and leather cruiser boots.

Hearing of local accidents and surfing around various forums including this one reading about all the accidents that happen every season. I started to make my way to the ATGATT camp.

Now my wife and I always wear helmets, riding jackets, gloves and boots. I wear a pair of riding pants when I am riding for the day but not when I am just heading to work.

It is not quite ATGATT but it is a long ways from the sunglasses and a smile I used to ride in
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Old 02-01-2009, 04:34 AM   #161
markk53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWRCRZR
When I got back into riding two summers ago I bought a cruiser and the lifestyle. No helmet, leather jacket, jeans and leather cruiser boots.

Hearing of local accidents and surfing around various forums including this one reading about all the accidents that happen every season. I started to make my way to the ATGATT camp.

Now my wife and I always wear helmets, riding jackets, gloves and boots. I wear a pair of riding pants when I am riding for the day but not when I am just heading to work.

It is not quite ATGATT but it is a long ways from the sunglasses and a smile I used to ride in
Wild part probably is that the ride to work could be the more hazzardous ride, depending on how much town riding is involved. I am not knocking you, I also don't wear any sort of MC pants and no jacket on warm days while doing errands and going to work. I am just pointing out the reality based on statistics - the old "within 25 miles of home" thing.

I started with off road riding a trials bike sans helmet, which was the style back in the 70s. When I went to flat track and later to harescrambles, I wore a full helmet with eye protection. Then when I started street riding, Ohio had a helmet law so a helmet was manditory. If ya had to wear one, you wore the coolest out there, the Bell Star full coverage. Get it in your favorite color - white or orange.

That Bell got me to the point where I do not feel comfortable riding road or fast off road without the full face helmet. No helmet feels like riding with a death wish... All I can think of is what that curb would do to my skull. So obviously the helmet is always there as is the shield or goggles.

I am guilty of not wearing leather or max gear otherwise. I know the risks and take them as I see fit.
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Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

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95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
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Old 02-01-2009, 04:59 AM   #162
ibafran
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I will go on record and say that I agree that ATGATT does take the fun out of riding.

For some of us, alright - maybe its only me, gear dulls the essential experience of riding much of the time. As each biker gains experience, that biker starts to define for him/herself what it means to be in motion in such a manner.

Before the flame posts start, I do not disagree with any previous post. I don't like road rash, concussions, or any mangling of my body or spirit. Each biker has to make their own decisions on how much risk they are going to manage. How many people have taken the BRC and gotten a bike&ATGATT and went to the street and decided that biking was not to their liking and forthwith quit? There is no stat that I can find for that. Some people see too much risk in biking to ever be comfortable, ATGATT or no. And the biking presents no rewards large enough for them to get past their risk perception.

Back to a few other related thoughts: Lets look at the history of trials riding. Back in the early days, no trials rider bothered with a helmet. Most serious trials errors resulted in a simple step off the bike with much laughter following. The obstacles were as tough as possible for the time. Nowdays, trials bikes and venues are so tough that riders are wearing helmets as sort of bump caps. Nobody questions the value of the gear. But nobody knows if these riders are gearing up for a ride across the field to retrieve their mail?

When I go to the track, I am forced to gear up or they won't let me ride. I can understand that. I also understand that I am experimenting with my limits and stand a good chance of falling. So I am happy to gear up. Nevertheless, there is a part of me that is annoyed at the gear. The rest of me overrules that little voice for that moment.

I reside in a state with zero helmet laws. I was one of many who did what it took to fight a mandatory helmet law for three years to get it repealed. I was and am one of theose riders who really wants to ride sans helmet. Not very many bikers will avow that position because it is indefensible from the onslaught of the ATGATT crowd.

Some old racer remarked that if you want a fast bike "take your windshield off."

I concur and add, if you think that you really know how to ride and are calm and cool in the very worst of it while managing risk with your skill and training, take off all your gear but your boots and eye protection and go for a ride, temperature permiting in all the venues where you normally ride.

Some of us, again maybe its just me, enjoy rain and cold and heat and dust and bugs and mud and lots of other stuff. Right in the face. Its essential to the experience of being a body in motion along with lean angles. (Edit: Peter Egan hints at this when he notes that he suffers from "Open Cockpit Syndrome.")

While I would never voice anything against ATGATT, part of me can't help but pity all the bikers who have never taken off their gear and, hopefully, enjoyed a ride.

I still wish for those good old days when I felt comfortable in no more than jeans and a sweatshirt while riding everywhere I cared to go. But the fear mongers have left their mark. And I cannot summon my spirit of old to stand against them. I probably did it to myself in a moment of weakness.
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:12 AM   #163
d'Artagnan1
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Hi Ibafran,

I'm a ATGATTer from near St. Lou who does a fair bit of riding in IL. And while I would personally ugre you, as a fellow rider, to continue giving some deep thought to how important your looks and noodle are to you, I STRONGLY support your right as an adult human to make that call.

I vehemently oppose all forms of Nanny government in this or any other nation.

And if that belief costs me a few dollars more ins-wise...so be it! If my/your/our Freedom as individuals is worth my very life (and I truly believe it is) it is beyond question worth any extra few dollars spent on insurance or anything else.

Best,
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:22 PM   #164
ibafran
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More of it:

When I remarked, "...take off all your gear...". I really meant 'naked'.

One of the many pleasures of biking is the wide variety of experience. Street riders, commuters, track riders of all kinds, dirt riders of all kinds sometimes have a very narrow window of experience per rider.

Occasionally, a biker may see a video clip of a rider wearing only boots, gloves, and a helmet. Great fun and way past most bikers' idea of a good time.

Try it on some lonely road sometime. Try it with the SO riding pillion. Try it riding pillion yourself. Try it on the night of a brilliant full moon without turning on the headlight.

Long before 'On Any Sunday' came out, I was a biker seeking a wide range of experiance. Malcom just cemented the idea of a rider participating as widely as possible. I wonder if Malcom spends/spent much time on pavement? Valentino Rossi remarks in "Faster" that he doesn't ride on the street because it is "too dangerous". Sure, he is a great motorcycle racer in my book too. But he loses my affinity because he doesn't have a wide range of experiance. Grodsky is neither a great dirt rider nor a great pavement racer. But Larry lived in the same biking universe that I do. Nobody had more respect for him than I do. I hung on everything that he ever wrote because it pertained to a large portion of my experiance. I got to meet him only once, briefly. And I sent him one long email that got no response.

ATGATT is, at best, a statisical crapshoot. My gear has saved me plenty. And I have the scars to show when I wasn't wearing it along with the scars to show when I was. And I have plenty of scars to show when bikes were not part of the fun.

Asimov proposed his three laws of robotics. An idea that I twisted into my three laws for determining whether or not I am actually living my life at the moment. Asssooommming that my activity of the moment is actually worthwhile (a whole nother problem): 1) Is my attention fully engaged? 2) Am I having fun? 3) Is it dangerous?

Outside Reading: search Abraham Maslow, Peak Experiance
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:47 PM   #165
Thewrench
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Cool2

I'm down in florida where the only legal requirement is eye protection. We wear gear in the dirt but on the street if I felt I needed all that crap on every time to ride, I'd quit and get one of those cars with the top that goes down.
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