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Old 01-13-2009, 03:51 PM   #121
GP640
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I just hope that this knucklhead's last words are "WEEEEEEEEEE"
not "I hope I don't hit my head and mess my hair"
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:22 PM   #122
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Don't live in the US, so is it compulsory to wear a helmet and other protective gear when driving a convertable in the US?
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:46 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningBare
Don't live in the US, so is it compulsory to wear a helmet and other protective gear when driving a convertable in the US?
Nope, but it is compulsory to wear a seatbelt to keep you inside. That is comparing apples and oranges, though - because if you manage to flip a convertible over (which is possible, but pretty tough to do, in general) you'll end up with somewhere around 3000 pounds sitting on your head - helmet or no, you wouldn't be in good shape.

As for the OP - I get what you're saying - when I first started riding, there were a few times when I opted to take the car because I didn't feel like lacing up the boots and pulling on a hot 2nd layer of pants.

But...choice of gear made ALL the difference. My motoport suit goes on in a minute or two - it is mesh, so it still feels good in 90+ heat, and my alpinestars boots not only don't require lacing, they are downright comfy on the bike - sure, it was a bit pricey - but totally worth it, because I am protected, and gearing up takes no time at all.
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:48 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by 3power
Laws requiring helmets do, indeed, limit your freedom as an American. I think it should be someone's choice to wear or not wear one. I think it is certainly the correct choice to wear one, and I won't ride without mine, but that's my opinion.

As far as bicycle helmets - I feel the same way. All my life I've ridden bicycles without a helmet and won't ever wear one.
I think there is a real grey area here in that those new riders and riders under adult age are another story. I see people riding with their 2-3 year olds in child seats on bikes without a helmet on them - strapped into a seat, guaranteed to smack the ground hard even in a simple tip over. There's child endangerment that screams for a helmet law, not even a slight infringement on freedom. Same is true for any kid on a motorcycle up to adulthood. Then there is the case that most new riders have no clue the dangers. Give them a year with a helmet then they make a decision.

Another thought would be to do the helmet laws like the seatbelt laws in Ohio. You aren't picked up for not wearing the belt, you have to be pulled over with reasonable cause for the belt citation to be issued. In other words if you drive totally legal, you'd never be caught and fined. Maybe do it that way. If you are a short time rider who's supposed to be wearing a helmet you aren't caught until pulled over for some other reasonable cause - like speeding - reward the safe rider.

By the way, you can ride on your property mostly naked if you want. The highways belong to the gov't so it isn't a given right to ride as you want on their turf, even though you are a part of the "ownership". So the helmet law on public ground isn't an infringement on any actual rights. Now if they do it on private grounds, like I think California might be trying, that's another story.

I rode bicycles for years, until I did some open country riding in some hilly curvy roads. The first coal truck that blew by me (about 1 foot of median outside the white stripe) convinced me I needed both a rear view mirror and a helmet. I also know that it isn't the forward speed that is usually the issue in both bike and motorcycle crashes, its how far DOWN you fall... a bicycle puts you about 1-2 feet higher, increasing the speed as you fall courtesy of gravity. In testing a direct fall down from a standard motorcycle will result in a concussion, from a bicycle it will border on brain damage with the difference being how high your head is falling from. I will always wear a bicycle helmet when on the road. Just makes sense, going down a hill at 45 is the same on either two wheeler.

Of course, do what you like. I have no problem with what you do much less have control over it, only what I do. I just think people should be knowledgable of their risks too. If you are, fine. Maybe others aren't.
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markk53 screwed with this post 01-14-2009 at 07:56 AM
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:50 AM   #125
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because if you manage to flip a convertible over (which is possible, but pretty tough to do, in general) you'll end up with somewhere around 3000 pounds sitting on your head - helmet or no, you wouldn't be in good shape.


Not true for many newer conv. cars BMW VW and others all have an active roll bar. If the car goes over ??? deg. roll a plate or bar it deployed and you you get to roll on it instead of your skull. A little off topic, but until they are deployed they are hidden.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:16 AM   #126
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I don't really mind the gear. Granted, its hot at times, and its a bit annoying for short trips, but I don't really have a problem. When in the store or other errands, I just wear full gear, except for the helmet. People think i'm a firefighter, but that's not a problem. On off days, when I ride the bike, I'll leave the overpants and often the boots on until I'm going to bed, so after the first ride of the day, I only have to throw on a helmet, jacket, and gloves.


The only realy annoying thing is when I realize my key is in my pocket and I've put my gloves on it. Kawasaki had a great idea when the brought their pass key system or whatever its called to their new Concourse 14s. Sadly, I don't own one of them.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:41 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53
I think there is a real grey area here in that those new riders and riders under adult age are another story. I see people riding with their 2-3 year olds in child seats on bikes without a helmet on them - strapped into a seat, guaranteed to smack the ground hard even in a simple tip over. There's child endangerment that screams for a helmet law, not even a slight infringement on freedom. Same is true for any kid on a motorcycle up to adulthood. Then there is the case that most new riders have no clue the dangers. Give them a year with a helmet then they make a decision.

Another thought would be to do the helmet laws like the seatbelt laws in Ohio. You aren't picked up for not wearing the belt, you have to be pulled over with reasonable cause for the belt citation to be issued. In other words if you drive totally legal, you'd never be caught and fined. Maybe do it that way. If you are a short time rider who's supposed to be wearing a helmet you aren't caught until pulled over for some other reasonable cause - like speeding - reward the safe rider.

By the way, you can ride on your property mostly naked if you want. The highways belong to the gov't so it isn't a given right to ride as you want on their turf, even though you are a part of the "ownership". So the helmet law on public ground isn't an infringement on any actual rights. Now if they do it on private grounds, like I think California might be trying, that's another story.

I rode bicycles for years, until I did some open country riding in some hilly curvy roads. The first coal truck that blew by me (about 1 foot of median outside the white stripe) convinced me I needed both a rear view mirror and a helmet. I also know that it isn't the forward speed that is usually the issue in both bike and motorcycle crashes, its how far DOWN you fall... a bicycle puts you about 1-2 feet higher, increasing the speed as you fall courtesy of gravity. In testing a direct fall down from a standard motorcycle will result in a concussion, from a bicycle it will border on brain damage with the difference being how high your head is falling from. I will always wear a bicycle helmet when on the road. Just makes sense, going down a hill at 45 is the same on either two wheeler.

Of course, do what you like. I have no problem with what you do much less have control over it, only what I do. I just think people should be knowledgable of their risks too. If you are, fine. Maybe others aren't.
I understand where you are coming from. I believe, though, that the govt will keep mandating new laws if you allow them to get started. ie - first helmets mandatory, then full gear, then they decide bikes are too dangerous and they ban them altogether. Personal safety is not a government responsibility. Public safety is - but you can't argue that wearing a helmet is making the public safer, it just makes that one person safer.

In terms of bicycles, you've found that there are certain instances where a helmet makes sense, and that's great. But, when I'm riding a bike path with my son I don't think I should be required to wear one (and I don't!). And yes, I am speaking about adults when I make these statement - sorry for the confusion.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:04 AM   #128
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OK, let's look at some facts with respect to helmets an bicycles.

It takes a fall of 6 feet to fracture an adult human skull. That's 6 feet vertical, not factoring any horizontal velocity.

I have first hand experience. I went over the bars of my mtn bike at approximately 40 km/h. I broke a Bell V1 Pro helmet and walked away.
If I had not been wearing a helmet, I would not have survived.

Wear a lid.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:39 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Squared
because if you manage to flip a convertible over (which is possible, but pretty tough to do, in general) you'll end up with somewhere around 3000 pounds sitting on your head - helmet or no, you wouldn't be in good shape.
Sure, if you ignore the motor vehicle standards, which say the windscreen frame is supposed to hold the weight.

But that doesn't help your point, does it?
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:57 PM   #130
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I gotta say, requiring motorcycle helmets isn't about just the motorcycle rider's safety. When you go down and have a traumatic head injury, you've just involved local law enforcement, Emergency Medical Responders (Fire Dept, paramedics, EMT's, Ambulances), A trip (ambulance or air) to the ER, life support, rehab, etc, etc... Often times this comes at taxpayer expense as many people don't have insurance or adequate insurance. A few hundred dollar helmet can save society hundreds of thousands of dollars.

It seems people frequently get "rights" and privlidges mixed up. No where in the Contitution does it state anyone has the "right" to even own a motorcycle. As for our "freedom", living in any ordered society nessecitates the giving up of some personal "freedoms".

We all hate being told what to do or not to do. Thank God we get less of it here in the US than many other places in the world!
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:07 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by RobF650GSD
....... Thank God we get less of it here in the US than many other places in the world!
I do. Every day. We are blessed to be sure.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:47 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by knybanjo
This is now the background for my computer on my Accessories Counter. I don't believe I have ever seen a more purer expression of the Universal joy of Motorcycle(even w/o the motor part). I basically ATTGATT, but can't dog these fellas.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:12 PM   #133
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Good form wih brake covered - but I might be a little worried about having my loin cloth on the back wheel like that. That could get ugly.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:40 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedder
Sure, if you ignore the motor vehicle standards, which say the windscreen frame is supposed to hold the weight.

But that doesn't help your point, does it?
I rarely have a point, so it doesn't help or hurt

You're right - safety devices and roll bars will indeed save your hide, and if it is a really old convert that collapses, you may not fare well - but either way, that is why comparing 'verts and bikes is apples and oranges...
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:04 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3power
I understand where you are coming from. I believe, though, that the govt will keep mandating new laws if you allow them to get started. ie - first helmets mandatory, then full gear, then they decide bikes are too dangerous and they ban them altogether. Personal safety is not a government responsibility. Public safety is - but you can't argue that wearing a helmet is making the public safer, it just makes that one person safer.

In terms of bicycles, you've found that there are certain instances where a helmet makes sense, and that's great. But, when I'm riding a bike path with my son I don't think I should be required to wear one (and I don't!). And yes, I am speaking about adults when I make these statement - sorry for the confusion.

I can go with that... one problem we always saw was that what the child sees the child does... sometimes at the wrong time.

Having sold motorcycles and ATVs I always told people who came in with children that their child WILL follow the example given, regardless of what is taught. In other words, if they don't wear a helmet or some other safety item regardless of reason, the child will eventually follow suit regardless of what is taught to and forced on them.

We had a fatality in another county where a child went out on his ATV to look for his dog. Parents always made him wear a helmet, but he didn't bother - he was only going looking for the dog. He crashed into a large groundhog hole and killed b;y a head injury. From my years in the shop I saw if riders wore any gear, their kids usually did the same when they got older and rode. Same is true with those who may see someone as their mentor.

The kids just follow the adult lead. It's like smoking, if one of the parents do, it is highly likely the children will also. I told farmers to at least wear a half shell when riding the ATV for work or whatever. It sends the signal they want to their kids. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the kids.

Same is true with bicycles too. You may be totally safe on the path, but the kid will eventually do some downhill stuff if he's a bit adventurous. He'll follow your lead in head gear, regardless of what you say and make him do. That's just the way it is a majority of the time.
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