indiana ride thread

[oPAULo]

Originally Posted by dfye55

I have an Android phone, with the free google maps app loaded because it allows me to download free maps and use the phone as a gps without using any cell phone data minutes. However, I have not found a way to load routes/tracks/waypoints.

Anyone using an Android gps app that is good for data in/out? I'd be glad to pay for an app that had good map data on the phone, and that allowed routes/tracks/waypoints download/upload. Even if you are not sure about the data capabilities, I'd be interested in what map app you use on your Android phone.

Don

I've been using dualsportmaps app for a while now. Guy that made it is a member here. There's a thread in vendors with a bunch of videos. Works perfectly for me.

[dfye55]

That would be fantastic, you might help me and others avoid injury. I called Abate to get in an off road class that was mentioned in their web page, but they gave me the impression it was for kids, but took my number telling me someone would call. Never got the call. I'd not looked for any other training.

It's easy to sign up for a dual-sport ride expecting gravel roads and find their definiation of dual sport route is really tight woods with challenging technical sections accessable only by legal roads. Examples: Bufalloe 500 and Muddobbers dual sport. I enjoyed those rides, but am just lucky I was not hurt.

What can I do to help with the planning and execution of a clinic at LCRP?

Don

[johnson357]

Originally Posted by dfye55

That would be fantastic, you might help me and others avoid injury. I called Abate to get in an off road class that was mentioned in their web page, but they gave me the impression it was for kids, but took my number telling me someone would call. Never got the call. I'd not looked for any other training.

It's easy to sign up for a dual-sport ride expecting gravel roads and find their definiation of dual sport route is really tight woods with challenging technical sections accessable only by legal roads. Examples: Bufalloe 500 and Muddobbers dual sport. I enjoyed those rides, but am just lucky I was not hurt.

What can I do to help with the planning and execution of a clinic at LCRP?

Don

We'll see what interest there is or if I'm going down to ride I'll just post it here and go that route ......I'm not off every weekend.

[TripleThreat719]

Depending on how much money you want to spend, you could go with a Garmin 60 CSx or now it's the 62 CSx, or you could opt for something along the lines of the Zumo 660, which is now the 665.

I have both the 60CSx and the Zumo 660. The Zumo is by far the more versatile. It gives spoken directions and actually speaks the street names. You can get an automotive and motorcycle mount for them. It's easy to swap back and forth from vehicle to vehicle and it automatically changes between automotive mode and motorcycle mode when you swap it between the different mounts. This is a great feature because you can set up preferences in each mode and it remembers the settings based on the mount it is in. I have a couple of different helmet communications systems and having spoken directions is really helpful when riding. It has an MP3 player built in, so I can listen to music while riding too. It also has bluetooth capability so you can pair it with your cell phone and make and receive phone calls if you choose. It will also handle tracks as well as routes. In addition, you can turn off recalculation, which is critical if you plan to build a route on the computer, upload it to the GPS and follow it as you intended when you built it. If the GPS does not allow you to turn off recalculation, when you import it from the computer, the GPS will often recalculate the route based on the GPS preferences for getting to the destination rather than keeping the route that you built. That is a gigantic pain in the ass...

The 60 CSx, however, does a good job of handling tracks and routes, but it only beeps (and not very loudly) when you approach a turn. The screen is pretty small and can be difficult to read in certain lighting conditions. It is lightweight and will run on two AA batteries for a long time. I use it on my Husky TE310 for dual sport rides and mount it on my KTM as an additional unit when on adventure touring rides. It is very handy to pull off the bike and take with you if you park and hike so you don't get lost.

Having both, I am glad I can pick and choose, but if I were to only buy one GPS unit, I would pick the Zumo for it's versatility. Being able to use it in the car and on the bike made the decision to spend more money much more palatable.

[header]

Originally Posted by dfye55

I rode from Columbus to Moto Supreme today. Got in over my head,[/IMG]

Rode home exploring several dead end roads. Great day, can't wait to go again.

I waved to you early in the day. I was standing next to the trailer with three other guys. I figured you and the other bike were from here. That sucks you had a rough day, don't feel too bad though. Moto is about as rough and hard as it gets.

If you guys want to do that riding clinic I bet I could really offer some help. For instance here is what I played on today at moto:

[ChevalDeFer]

Originally Posted by TripleThreat719

Depending on how much money you want to spend, you could go with a Garmin 60 CSx or now it's the 62 CSx, or you could opt for something along the lines of the Zumo 660, which is now the 665.

Ditto the 660 love, I got one this fall and I love it. It is a little pricey though.

[header]

I can help with bike setup and suspension too. My goal of making the A class (not close yet) has taught me a lot about having EVERYTHING perfect, including bike setup, proper technique, forcing myself to ride on all different types of terrain, learning how the bike works, how suspension works, everything.

I am also just finishing a degree in Exercise Science so if you have questions about health and physical fitness I can answer most of that stuff too.

Here is an excerpt from a thread I started on KTMtalk.com discussing proper form in all kinds of situations. This took me a long time to understand well enough to explain it. Having to learn every last thing on my own (and slowly) has forced me to know why you have to do something different (for instance when to sit forward on the seat and when to sit back).

Originally Posted by header

I wrote this up a while ago but refrained from posting it until I was sure I was communicating the correct descriptions. I also got a chance to ride some really high speed tracks that gave me a chance to feel out each turn much longer than normal.

I also got to chase a buddy on a grass track consisting of just below first to the top of first gear turns. He normally is faster than me but I was able to chase him down and see how much slower and harder his brake sliding technique was. While he had to slide in, stop, and accelerate out I kept pushing through the turn trying to just maintain enough speed to keep traction then slowly open the throttle at exit. It was the first time i've been able to "see" how much slower brake sliding is. We all know its faster that way but this was the first time everything had come together for more than two turns.

Here is my logic behind handling a bike:

Turning
When I ask a more advanced rider advice on turning it seems I always get one of two responses; those being to slide through the turn or to roll the turn. To help explain this I find it easiest to grasp when both styles are taken to the extreme.
On one end you have a sliding turn where you power slide the bike through a turn flat track style. To do this you’re on the gas hard spinning the rear and the bike is pitched to the outside of the turn. The other end of the spectrum where you roll through a turn is probably best described when you go through a rutted corner. The back of the bike is in the same line as the front and isn’t spinning; instead you’re simply rolling through the turn with the most amount of speed possible and the least amount of tire spin.

While I understood this it still didn’t help me turn any better and didn’t explain why my buddies who slide the rear end a lot were always faster than me. My style is to roll the turns in order to maintain traction and not lose any drive through spinning tires.

The only difference between the two is how much drive the rider wastes by sliding the rear out under too much acceleration. Now if you want the tire to spin you lean way forward right? This lessens the amount of traction at the rear wheel until the force of acceleration is great enough to overcome friction which then allows the tire to track away from center towards the outside of the turn. But what if you didn’t lean forward? What if you leaned forward until traction breaks then slowly moved your way back and towards the outside of the bike say right over the seam in the seat? You would have a rear tire that is at maximum traction based off of where the rider has placed his weight over the bike allowing more of that weight to effectively increase the traction at the wheel which can then be fed more acceleration until it’s just barely spinning.

Everyone has experienced this before whether they realize it or not, think about a hillclimb. Once you’ve lost your speed and you have to start accelerating the bike wants to break traction until you lean back a bit. This allows more of your weight, as a rider, to increase traction. The same thing is happening through a turn, its just really hard to get the body balanced where you are far enough on the inside of the bike that your weight keeps the bike leaned over and still have a component of your weight to increase the traction on the wheels by staying directly above the wheels.

The execution of the turn is the part I messed up. I kept thinking if I wanted to “roll” a turn I needed to avoid flat-tracking through the turn. The only way I knew to do this was to avoid counter-steering. This doesn’t work though because in order to roll a turn you’re still counter-steering. When you counter-steer a bike it will lie down in the turn and eventually slide out as frictional forces give way to excessive velocity. If you don’t counter-steer and instead try to turn the bars in the direction you want to go the bike wants to stand back up. This can be felt actually when the bike wants to stand up and you don’t let it the front will start to “push” through the turn.

All this means you don’t turn by weighting the outside peg or handlebar, (this is a pet peve of mine). You instead weight the inside control to turn the bike, or more intuitively lay the bike down, through a turn. The outside control comes into play when the slide starts and you wreck because all your weight was over the inside control and the bike slid out and you fell down. Instead you need a balance (there it is again) of weight on the inside control to effectively control the bike but enough weight on the outside control to allow you to stay on the bike when it starts to slide.

To come full circle (ha!) on all this theory I put it to the test and going through turns I started pushing the inside bar forward flat tracker style and could instantly feel the bike want to drop into the turn instead of lift out of it. This threw my balance off because I wasn’t “on top” of the bike, instead I was inside it so when the bike slid I couldn’t stand over the slide and instead fell onto the ground. If your weight is balanced over the bike you won’t fall when traction is overcome because you can’t fall down, if you’re outside the bike and it slides you fall down and the bike keeps going.

I strongly suggest to anyone who wants to learn more about this to learn (or refresh) basic physics and geometry. I’ve found that’s all this is once you break it down.

Summary-
• Push the bike with your inside handlebar and peg to turn
• Maintain a balance that allows the tire to spin but not too much that you’re wasting valuable drive force
• Stay on top of the bike so you don’t wreck when the bike starts to slide
• Stay forward
• People don’t really realize what their brain is doing for them and have an even harder time communicating said action

If you have access to KTMtalk.com let me know, there is a lot more stuff in my thread.

Also check out the link in my signautre "525exc refresh". You can learn about the front suspension there and the pictures are cool too

[KneeKicker]

Originally Posted by johnson357

I was thinking why don't we do a little clinic to help out some of the newer to off road guys on here.

Sounds good,I really need help on my backflips.

[nickgindy]

Originally Posted by KneeKicker

Sounds good,I really need help on my backflips.

All sounded to do is drink a monster energy drink for that. It also doubles as making you a cage fighter if you wear a tap out shirt, drink a monster, and wear a monster hat.

[KneeKicker]

Originally Posted by nickgindy

All sounded to do is drink a monster energy drink for that. It also doubles as making you a cage fighter if you wear a tap out shirt, drink a monster, and wear a monster hat.

It has to have a flat bill right?

I have a tapout sticker on my car so I am already a cage fighter.

[BMWLOU]

I was anxious to get my new DR650 out and as soon as I saw the temp rise above 40 I suited up and headed out. I have seen the posts about MotoSupeme so I thought that would make a good destination.

I headed down 446 to TowerRidge Road and took gravel to Kurtz. There were 6 or 7 bikes parked outside Cafe 58 and went inside and found Rick Dorffmeier, famous Tucker Rocky rep, and some of his friends who had ridden down from Indy. The were two Honda 700X's, a Transalp. a Triumph 800, BMW 650 and a VStrom. They had just ordered food and I wanted to ride rather than eat so I got directions to MotoSupreme and headed back out.

By the look of the place it is been there much longer than I would have imagined as the trails are pretty worn. All of the trails were ATV wide and I think those things really accelerate trail wear. In any case I went down in the valley to see whether I would want to bring my dirt bike over and I quickly determined that my DR was not the mount to see it all. I think I could enjoy the place on my KTM but today was just for casual exploration. I went to the top of a few big hills, though not the big, big verticals. I thought some of the hills at the Crwfordsville GNCC were pretty vertical but they don't hold a candle to these. I looked to see if one of the young and dumbs were going to put on a hill climbing exhibition but I didn't see any daredevils today.

I wandered for a while and spent most of the time hoping I wouldn't encounter someone coming the other way. I may have missed the signs but I think large directional arrows would be a good idea on most of the trails.

I must have seen dfye55 there. I saw a dual sport going up a road behind me and pulled over to see if it was someone I knew. It was a Kaw 250 so it must have been him.

I must say that there.was one particularly dangerous spot on the MX track. Someone rolling the jumps would find himself in a creek, if not a creek bank, if he was rolling one particular jump toward the rear. A warning sign would seem a good idea

After my visit I headed back through Kurtz and Maumee back to my home near Belmont. I have to say I am enjoying my DR. The power is nice and linear and dxoesn't vibrate much for a big single. The seat, though a Corbin, doesn't,t cut it. Since I don't have a stock seat pan I may have to make a call to Sargent seats.

I hope December will offer some nice 40 degree days as I still haven't memorized all of those roads in and around the Deam Wilderness and need to do some more exploring there. Hope I can hook up with some Indiana folks along the way.
T

[nickgindy]

Originally Posted by KneeKicker

It has to have a flat bill right?

I have a tapout sticker on my car so I am already a cage fighter.

Your already set then. Just go try the back flip.

[header]

I think you were the other dualsport rider I saw BMWLou

There are a few blindspots on the motocross track, more blindspots in the woods where you come around a corner and need to be on the throttle. It just takes time, and some caution, to learn it all.

[dfye55]

Sorry I did not stop, thought I knew you, but too excited and short on warm hours to stop and chat! Likewise I rode around the bikes at 58 Cafe, but did not stop.

Ditto on that dangerous creek jump! I rolled up slow 'cause I could not see and because I had encountered some hill suprises, what a suprise to see there was nothing but a, ?what 10ft?, cliff over the creek. Just part of the exciting fun for me. Glad I was not experiencing a place like that when I was 20something, my 50something wisdom helped... at least that spot.

See pm for contact details, I'm in Columbus and will ride with you when I can.

Originally Posted by BMWLOU

I was anxious to get my new DR650 out and as soon as I saw the temp rise above 40 I suited up and headed out. I have seen the posts about MotoSupeme so I thought that would make a good destination.

I headed down 446 to TowerRidge Road and took gravel to Kurtz. There were 6 or 7 bikes parked outside Cafe 58 and went inside and found Rick Dorffmeier, famous Tucker Rocky rep, and some of his friends who had ridden down from Indy. The were two Honda 700X's, a Transalp. a Triumph 800, BMW 650 and a VStrom. They had just ordered food and I wanted to ride rather than eat so I got directions to MotoSupreme and headed back out.

By the look of the place it is been there much longer than I would have imagined as the trails are pretty worn. All of the trails were ATV wide and I think those things really accelerate trail wear. In any case I went down in the valley to see whether I would want to bring my dirt bike over and I quickly determined that my DR was not the mount to see it all. I think I could enjoy the place on my KTM but today was just for casual exploration. I went to the top of a few big hills, though not the big, big verticals. I thought some of the hills at the Crwfordsville GNCC were pretty vertical but they don't hold a candle to these. I looked to see if one of the young and dumbs were going to put on a hill climbing exhibition but I didn't see any daredevils today.

I wandered for a while and spent most of the time hoping I wouldn't encounter someone coming the other way. I may have missed the signs but I think large directional arrows would be a good idea on most of the trails.

I must have seen dfye55 there. I saw a dual sport going up a road behind me and pulled over to see if it was someone I knew. It was a Kaw 250 so it must have been him.

I must say that there.was one particularly dangerous spot on the MX track. Someone rolling the jumps would find himself in a creek, if not a creek bank, if he was rolling one particular jump toward the rear. A warning sign would seem a good idea

After my visit I headed back through Kurtz and Maumee back to my home near Belmont. I have to say I am enjoying my DR. The power is nice and linear and dxoesn't vibrate much for a big single. The seat, though a Corbin, doesn't,t cut it. Since I don't have a stock seat pan I may have to make a call to Sargent seats.

I hope December will offer some nice 40 degree days as I still haven't memorized all of those roads in and around the Deam Wilderness and need to do some more exploring there. Hope I can hook up with some Indiana folks along the way.
T

[dfye55]

I now have the dual sport maps app loaded on my Android phone. I was able to move today's planned route from Mapsource to the android phone without problem! Nice pretty marker for the Moto Supreme location. Should not be a problem to move the actual track from the days ride the same way.

Next ride, I'll use my phone instead of my GPS device and see how well it works. The tips on the web page seem pretty important to keep in mind, like battery life and turn by turn routing, and always carry a backup, either maps or a second gps device.

THANKS oPAULo!

Originally Posted by oPAULo

I've been using dualsportmaps app for a while now. Guy that made it is a member here. There's a thread in vendors with a bunch of videos. Works perfectly for me.