ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > Central – From Da Nort Woods to the Plane States
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-25-2012, 06:26 PM   #8941
header
Chris
 
header's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Salt Lake City
Oddometer: 1,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfye55 View Post
I rode from Columbus to Moto Supreme today. Got in over my head,[/IMG]

Rode home exploring several dead end roads. Great day, can't wait to go again.
I waved to you early in the day. I was standing next to the trailer with three other guys. I figured you and the other bike were from here. That sucks you had a rough day, don't feel too bad though. Moto is about as rough and hard as it gets.

If you guys want to do that riding clinic I bet I could really offer some help. For instance here is what I played on today at moto:

__________________


KTM 530exc
525exc refresh
header is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:42 PM   #8942
BK
Electron herder
 
BK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Oddometer: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleThreat719 View Post
Depending on how much money you want to spend, you could go with a Garmin 60 CSx or now it's the 62 CSx, or you could opt for something along the lines of the Zumo 660, which is now the 665.

Ditto the 660 love, I got one this fall and I love it. It is a little pricey though.
__________________
"Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a God, and the only living things that behave like they haven't got one." - The Rum Diary
BK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:43 PM   #8943
header
Chris
 
header's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Salt Lake City
Oddometer: 1,740
I can help with bike setup and suspension too. My goal of making the A class (not close yet) has taught me a lot about having EVERYTHING perfect, including bike setup, proper technique, forcing myself to ride on all different types of terrain, learning how the bike works, how suspension works, everything.

I am also just finishing a degree in Exercise Science so if you have questions about health and physical fitness I can answer most of that stuff too.

Here is an excerpt from a thread I started on KTMtalk.com discussing proper form in all kinds of situations. This took me a long time to understand well enough to explain it. Having to learn every last thing on my own (and slowly) has forced me to know why you have to do something different (for instance when to sit forward on the seat and when to sit back).

Quote:
Originally Posted by header
I wrote this up a while ago but refrained from posting it until I was sure I was communicating the correct descriptions. I also got a chance to ride some really high speed tracks that gave me a chance to feel out each turn much longer than normal.

I also got to chase a buddy on a grass track consisting of just below first to the top of first gear turns. He normally is faster than me but I was able to chase him down and see how much slower and harder his brake sliding technique was. While he had to slide in, stop, and accelerate out I kept pushing through the turn trying to just maintain enough speed to keep traction then slowly open the throttle at exit. It was the first time i've been able to "see" how much slower brake sliding is. We all know its faster that way but this was the first time everything had come together for more than two turns.

Here is my logic behind handling a bike:

Turning
When I ask a more advanced rider advice on turning it seems I always get one of two responses; those being to slide through the turn or to roll the turn. To help explain this I find it easiest to grasp when both styles are taken to the extreme.
On one end you have a sliding turn where you power slide the bike through a turn flat track style. To do this you’re on the gas hard spinning the rear and the bike is pitched to the outside of the turn. The other end of the spectrum where you roll through a turn is probably best described when you go through a rutted corner. The back of the bike is in the same line as the front and isn’t spinning; instead you’re simply rolling through the turn with the most amount of speed possible and the least amount of tire spin.

While I understood this it still didn’t help me turn any better and didn’t explain why my buddies who slide the rear end a lot were always faster than me. My style is to roll the turns in order to maintain traction and not lose any drive through spinning tires.

The only difference between the two is how much drive the rider wastes by sliding the rear out under too much acceleration. Now if you want the tire to spin you lean way forward right? This lessens the amount of traction at the rear wheel until the force of acceleration is great enough to overcome friction which then allows the tire to track away from center towards the outside of the turn. But what if you didn’t lean forward? What if you leaned forward until traction breaks then slowly moved your way back and towards the outside of the bike say right over the seam in the seat? You would have a rear tire that is at maximum traction based off of where the rider has placed his weight over the bike allowing more of that weight to effectively increase the traction at the wheel which can then be fed more acceleration until it’s just barely spinning.

Everyone has experienced this before whether they realize it or not, think about a hillclimb. Once you’ve lost your speed and you have to start accelerating the bike wants to break traction until you lean back a bit. This allows more of your weight, as a rider, to increase traction. The same thing is happening through a turn, its just really hard to get the body balanced where you are far enough on the inside of the bike that your weight keeps the bike leaned over and still have a component of your weight to increase the traction on the wheels by staying directly above the wheels.

The execution of the turn is the part I messed up. I kept thinking if I wanted to “roll” a turn I needed to avoid flat-tracking through the turn. The only way I knew to do this was to avoid counter-steering. This doesn’t work though because in order to roll a turn you’re still counter-steering. When you counter-steer a bike it will lie down in the turn and eventually slide out as frictional forces give way to excessive velocity. If you don’t counter-steer and instead try to turn the bars in the direction you want to go the bike wants to stand back up. This can be felt actually when the bike wants to stand up and you don’t let it the front will start to “push” through the turn.

All this means you don’t turn by weighting the outside peg or handlebar, (this is a pet peve of mine). You instead weight the inside control to turn the bike, or more intuitively lay the bike down, through a turn. The outside control comes into play when the slide starts and you wreck because all your weight was over the inside control and the bike slid out and you fell down. Instead you need a balance (there it is again) of weight on the inside control to effectively control the bike but enough weight on the outside control to allow you to stay on the bike when it starts to slide.

To come full circle (ha!) on all this theory I put it to the test and going through turns I started pushing the inside bar forward flat tracker style and could instantly feel the bike want to drop into the turn instead of lift out of it. This threw my balance off because I wasn’t “on top” of the bike, instead I was inside it so when the bike slid I couldn’t stand over the slide and instead fell onto the ground. If your weight is balanced over the bike you won’t fall when traction is overcome because you can’t fall down, if you’re outside the bike and it slides you fall down and the bike keeps going.

I strongly suggest to anyone who wants to learn more about this to learn (or refresh) basic physics and geometry. I’ve found that’s all this is once you break it down.

Summary-
• Push the bike with your inside handlebar and peg to turn
• Maintain a balance that allows the tire to spin but not too much that you’re wasting valuable drive force
• Stay on top of the bike so you don’t wreck when the bike starts to slide
• Stay forward
• People don’t really realize what their brain is doing for them and have an even harder time communicating said action
If you have access to KTMtalk.com let me know, there is a lot more stuff in my thread.

Also check out the link in my signautre "525exc refresh". You can learn about the front suspension there and the pictures are cool too
__________________


KTM 530exc
525exc refresh
header is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:43 PM   #8944
KneeKicker
Beastly Adventurer
 
KneeKicker's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Oddometer: 2,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson357 View Post
I was thinking why don't we do a little clinic to help out some of the newer to off road guys on here.
Sounds good,I really need help on my backflips.
__________________
everything looks cool on motorcycle

"I got so drunk last night I woke this morning and someone had shit my pants" Ron White
KneeKicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:51 PM   #8945
nickgindy
Doing it Wrong
 
nickgindy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Oddometer: 2,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneeKicker View Post
Sounds good,I really need help on my backflips.
All sounded to do is drink a monster energy drink for that. It also doubles as making you a cage fighter if you wear a tap out shirt, drink a monster, and wear a monster hat.
__________________

In memory of IMPD Officer Perry Renn. E.O.W July 5, 2014. "I will always get out of my car."
2003 Sv650s; 2012 BMW F650GS; 1999 Suzuki Dr 350se
http://www.youtube.com/fetuss10
nickgindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:54 PM   #8946
KneeKicker
Beastly Adventurer
 
KneeKicker's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Oddometer: 2,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickgindy View Post
All sounded to do is drink a monster energy drink for that. It also doubles as making you a cage fighter if you wear a tap out shirt, drink a monster, and wear a monster hat.
It has to have a flat bill right?

I have a tapout sticker on my car so I am already a cage fighter.
__________________
everything looks cool on motorcycle

"I got so drunk last night I woke this morning and someone had shit my pants" Ron White
KneeKicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:55 PM   #8947
BMWLOU
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Louisville, KY
Oddometer: 30
Another first timer at Moto Supreme

I was anxious to get my new DR650 out and as soon as I saw the temp rise above 40 I suited up and headed out. I have seen the posts about MotoSupeme so I thought that would make a good destination.

I headed down 446 to TowerRidge Road and took gravel to Kurtz. There were 6 or 7 bikes parked outside Cafe 58 and went inside and found Rick Dorffmeier, famous Tucker Rocky rep, and some of his friends who had ridden down from Indy. The were two Honda 700X's, a Transalp. a Triumph 800, BMW 650 and a VStrom. They had just ordered food and I wanted to ride rather than eat so I got directions to MotoSupreme and headed back out.

By the look of the place it is been there much longer than I would have imagined as the trails are pretty worn. All of the trails were ATV wide and I think those things really accelerate trail wear. In any case I went down in the valley to see whether I would want to bring my dirt bike over and I quickly determined that my DR was not the mount to see it all. I think I could enjoy the place on my KTM but today was just for casual exploration. I went to the top of a few big hills, though not the big, big verticals. I thought some of the hills at the Crwfordsville GNCC were pretty vertical but they don't hold a candle to these. I looked to see if one of the young and dumbs were going to put on a hill climbing exhibition but I didn't see any daredevils today.

I wandered for a while and spent most of the time hoping I wouldn't encounter someone coming the other way. I may have missed the signs but I think large directional arrows would be a good idea on most of the trails.

I must have seen dfye55 there. I saw a dual sport going up a road behind me and pulled over to see if it was someone I knew. It was a Kaw 250 so it must have been him.

I must say that there.was one particularly dangerous spot on the MX track. Someone rolling the jumps would find himself in a creek, if not a creek bank, if he was rolling one particular jump toward the rear. A warning sign would seem a good idea

After my visit I headed back through Kurtz and Maumee back to my home near Belmont. I have to say I am enjoying my DR. The power is nice and linear and dxoesn't vibrate much for a big single. The seat, though a Corbin, doesn't,t cut it. Since I don't have a stock seat pan I may have to make a call to Sargent seats.

I hope December will offer some nice 40 degree days as I still haven't memorized all of those roads in and around the Deam Wilderness and need to do some more exploring there. Hope I can hook up with some Indiana folks along the way.
T
BMWLOU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 06:59 PM   #8948
nickgindy
Doing it Wrong
 
nickgindy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Oddometer: 2,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneeKicker View Post
It has to have a flat bill right?

I have a tapout sticker on my car so I am already a cage fighter.
Your already set then. Just go try the back flip.
__________________

In memory of IMPD Officer Perry Renn. E.O.W July 5, 2014. "I will always get out of my car."
2003 Sv650s; 2012 BMW F650GS; 1999 Suzuki Dr 350se
http://www.youtube.com/fetuss10
nickgindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:05 PM   #8949
header
Chris
 
header's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Salt Lake City
Oddometer: 1,740
I think you were the other dualsport rider I saw BMWLou

There are a few blindspots on the motocross track, more blindspots in the woods where you come around a corner and need to be on the throttle. It just takes time, and some caution, to learn it all.
__________________


KTM 530exc
525exc refresh
header is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:07 PM   #8950
dfye55
Gnarly Adventurer
 
dfye55's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: south central Indiana
Oddometer: 254
yep, it was me

Sorry I did not stop, thought I knew you, but too excited and short on warm hours to stop and chat! Likewise I rode around the bikes at 58 Cafe, but did not stop.

Ditto on that dangerous creek jump! I rolled up slow 'cause I could not see and because I had encountered some hill suprises, what a suprise to see there was nothing but a, ?what 10ft?, cliff over the creek. Just part of the exciting fun for me. Glad I was not experiencing a place like that when I was 20something, my 50something wisdom helped... at least that spot.

See pm for contact details, I'm in Columbus and will ride with you when I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWLOU View Post
I was anxious to get my new DR650 out and as soon as I saw the temp rise above 40 I suited up and headed out. I have seen the posts about MotoSupeme so I thought that would make a good destination.

I headed down 446 to TowerRidge Road and took gravel to Kurtz. There were 6 or 7 bikes parked outside Cafe 58 and went inside and found Rick Dorffmeier, famous Tucker Rocky rep, and some of his friends who had ridden down from Indy. The were two Honda 700X's, a Transalp. a Triumph 800, BMW 650 and a VStrom. They had just ordered food and I wanted to ride rather than eat so I got directions to MotoSupreme and headed back out.

By the look of the place it is been there much longer than I would have imagined as the trails are pretty worn. All of the trails were ATV wide and I think those things really accelerate trail wear. In any case I went down in the valley to see whether I would want to bring my dirt bike over and I quickly determined that my DR was not the mount to see it all. I think I could enjoy the place on my KTM but today was just for casual exploration. I went to the top of a few big hills, though not the big, big verticals. I thought some of the hills at the Crwfordsville GNCC were pretty vertical but they don't hold a candle to these. I looked to see if one of the young and dumbs were going to put on a hill climbing exhibition but I didn't see any daredevils today.

I wandered for a while and spent most of the time hoping I wouldn't encounter someone coming the other way. I may have missed the signs but I think large directional arrows would be a good idea on most of the trails.

I must have seen dfye55 there. I saw a dual sport going up a road behind me and pulled over to see if it was someone I knew. It was a Kaw 250 so it must have been him.

I must say that there.was one particularly dangerous spot on the MX track. Someone rolling the jumps would find himself in a creek, if not a creek bank, if he was rolling one particular jump toward the rear. A warning sign would seem a good idea

After my visit I headed back through Kurtz and Maumee back to my home near Belmont. I have to say I am enjoying my DR. The power is nice and linear and dxoesn't vibrate much for a big single. The seat, though a Corbin, doesn't,t cut it. Since I don't have a stock seat pan I may have to make a call to Sargent seats.

I hope December will offer some nice 40 degree days as I still haven't memorized all of those roads in and around the Deam Wilderness and need to do some more exploring there. Hope I can hook up with some Indiana folks along the way.
T
__________________
Don '05 KLR 250 & '04 DR 200
dfye55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:20 PM   #8951
dfye55
Gnarly Adventurer
 
dfye55's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: south central Indiana
Oddometer: 254
WOW this forum is great

I now have the dual sport maps app loaded on my Android phone. I was able to move today's planned route from Mapsource to the android phone without problem! Nice pretty marker for the Moto Supreme location. Should not be a problem to move the actual track from the days ride the same way.

Next ride, I'll use my phone instead of my GPS device and see how well it works. The tips on the web page seem pretty important to keep in mind, like battery life and turn by turn routing, and always carry a backup, either maps or a second gps device.

THANKS oPAULo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oPAULo View Post
I've been using dualsportmaps app for a while now. Guy that made it is a member here. There's a thread in vendors with a bunch of videos. Works perfectly for me.
__________________
Don '05 KLR 250 & '04 DR 200
dfye55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:38 PM   #8952
TripleThreat719
Track Addict ADV Wannabe
 
TripleThreat719's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Oddometer: 293
I had a buddy get hurt pretty badly on that creek jump a couple of years ago. His first time there and he rolled up on it and ended up in the creek with the bike on top of him. Spent several days in the hospital.

I've never been there, but have always been curious what it is like. Is there a fee to ride there? Can anyone post directions on how to get there? I might try to take the Husky down there if we get another warm weekend...

Had hoped to get out and ride today with some friends, but I was busy helping my daughter with a science assignment at the North Fork Waterfowl Resting Area for a large portion of the mid-day and then had to finish up a paper that is due for my own classes tomorrow...
__________________
On the road less traveled....
.... You always meet more interesting people!
______________________________________
Coming Soon... 2004 BMW R 1150 RT; Gone Soon... 2009 Husqvarna TE 310; Gone, but fondly remembered... 2003 KTM 640 Adventure
TripleThreat719 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 07:56 PM   #8953
header
Chris
 
header's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Salt Lake City
Oddometer: 1,740
PM me anytime you want to go out there. I can show you around the whole place.

There is no fee, no sign in or anything. Its private property and none of us have permission to be there. Thats how he gets around everything.

The owner doesn't want to make money off the place, he rarely even says he is the owner unless someone asks directly. Very modest and very nice.

Just don't bug him about working on a trail or the track. He is busy and enjoys riding more than most people so when he gets a chance to ride he doesn't want to work on trails. Thats for this time of year, besides we all enjoy the hard stuff
__________________


KTM 530exc
525exc refresh
header is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 08:29 PM   #8954
godwinmt
They call me Crash
 
godwinmt's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Seymour, IN
Oddometer: 593
The clinic sounds like a great idea! I really appreciated Chris showing me around earlier in the year, and especially w with this group there's a ton of knowledge floating around that all of us nooblets can take advantage of. Moto should be a lot more enjoyable on the littler bike... The dr got heavy after lifting it up for the fifth time

-M
godwinmt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:16 PM   #8955
KneeKicker
Beastly Adventurer
 
KneeKicker's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Oddometer: 2,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsrat View Post
If you want to be a better off-road rider buy a secondhand trials bike and either learn to ride it well or get into competition with it.

If you want to see just how bad a rider is put him on a trials bike and see how he does. What you'll find is that most riders with no trials experience use momentum and bravado to cover rough terrain and not throttle control and balance. A lot of people can ride a motorcycle fast--but slow the pace to a walk and see how they do. For a lot of guys it's a real eye opener. Everything you learn riding trials will make you a better off-road rider.

Two of the best off-road riders in the world, Taddy Blazusiak and David Knight, both started out as trials riders.

Trials riding is also relatively cheap (getting beyond the initial purchase of the bike) and easy on the equipment. Engines last almost forever and even as soft as the radial trials tires are they last a long time, too.

All of this applies to the "adventure riders" as well, maybe more so. The ability to control a 500 lb. bike at low speed using balance, throttle and clutch control might make the difference between motoring through a particularly nasty section or straining your back picking the beast up when you biff.

Balance,throttle control,clutch control?

I usually point it where I want to go and hold it wide open
__________________
everything looks cool on motorcycle

"I got so drunk last night I woke this morning and someone had shit my pants" Ron White
KneeKicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014