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Old 12-03-2012, 07:39 AM   #9061
zamboni9
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Headed to Carmel Ridge rd to check it out today. Thanks for the tip woodsrat. Keep the road tips coming!
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:43 AM   #9062
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Originally Posted by nickgindy View Post
I'm glad I haven't encountered this yet. I'm the kind of person that will test the guy. In the state of Indiana you can NOT protect property only life.

And anyone that mentions guns kill people I am coming to take your spoons away. Spoons cause obesity.
I think you are wrong on that; Indiana passed a law a couple/3 years ago stating we can protect our property, but I dont know if this covers other humans. Maybe the folks are tired of people casing out their places. I had to put a chain across my driveway due to people pulling up into my driveway at night and just sitting there, checking things out until I turned on my lights, then they would take off like a bat out of hades; or maybe they are tired of the damage off road bikes are doing to their property by careless/unthinking riders-the home owners cant tell the difference between courteous and dickhead riders.

Davidc83 screwed with this post 12-03-2012 at 10:51 AM
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:42 PM   #9063
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Originally Posted by Woodsrat View Post
...and I'm sucking dust cleaning out the barn. What's wrong with this picture???

Hope somebody's out riding.
Well, I was yesterday. Almost as nice as today. Now I'm at work, goofing off on-line.






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Old 12-03-2012, 02:56 PM   #9064
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I was out riding today! Started in martinsville, took mahallasville rd to Carmel ridge rd. Great road, woodsrat! Looped to Lick Creek Rd and back down Carmel Ridge a second time. Cruised down south shore of Lake Lemon the over to Old 37 back to martinsville then home to Indy.

No deer sightings either.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:56 PM   #9065
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:19 PM   #9066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidc83 View Post
I think you are wrong on that; Indiana passed a law a couple/3 years ago stating we can protect our property, but I dont know if this covers other humans. Maybe the folks are tired of people casing out their places. I had to put a chain across my driveway due to people pulling up into my driveway at night and just sitting there, checking things out until I turned on my lights, then they would take off like a bat out of hades; or maybe they are tired of the damage off road bikes are doing to their property by careless/unthinking riders-the home owners cant tell the difference between courteous and dickhead riders.
I partially agree with that. Yes, Indiana did pass that law, but you better make for damn sure that the person(s) are actually committing a felony against you (and no, "possible" trespassing does not qualify as a felony act) If such was the case and someone were driving up the highway and they thought someone else driving alongside of them was getting too many inches too close to their vehicle (which is also their property), then it should be perfectly fine for them to protect their "property" and drop something along the lines of a Tec9 out the window and start spraying, right? Nope, I don't believe so... On the other hand if someone is holding a gun with the muzzle aimed either at the ground or the sky and wants to give me a legitimate ass chewing, then so be it...BUT the instant the muzzle gets raised and pointed directly at another human being ALL the rules change and it's now assault with intent to kill.

The road we were on is even listed on the latest published version of the State of Indiana Hoosier Forest map as a "Road not maintained for passenger cars"...Hence the reason we wandered down that road. It has a starting point, an actual road name & an ending point that connects to another road....with NO Dead End sign on the end that we came in on. We had no clue what we were going to run into or we wouldn't have gone that way. Heck, we were just out trying to enjoy the day doing some exploring of beautiful southern Indiana back roads, not out creating hatred & discontent. We weren't tearing anything up and when I said we were moving at a snail's pace, I wasn't far off. We were rolling on the actual gravel road & idling along in 2nd or 3rd gear...@ maybe 20MPH. Nobody was spinning a wheel and nobody got off into anyone's lawn or anything like that. In your case a chain across your driveway is a good idea. I don't see a thing wrong with that other than it's a pain to have to deal with every time you wanna travel in/out of your own driveway. (been there, lived that) I certainly hope that it stopped the possible would be thieves from whatever stupid acts they were planning on doing. In this particular case, some sorta sign up stating that states "County road ends HERE" and a chain up would have been nice but there was no such thing as that there.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:50 PM   #9067
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great day for december

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Old 12-03-2012, 04:28 PM   #9068
nickgindy
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Originally Posted by TooSlow4U View Post
I partially agree with that. Yes, Indiana did pass that law, but you better make for damn sure that the person(s) are actually committing a felony against you (and no, "possible" trespassing does not qualify as a felony act) If such was the case and someone were driving up the highway and they thought someone else driving alongside of them was getting too many inches too close to their vehicle (which is also their property), then it should be perfectly fine for them to protect their "property" and drop something along the lines of a Tec9 out the window and start spraying, right? Nope, I don't believe so... On the other hand if someone is holding a gun with the muzzle aimed either at the ground or the sky and wants to give me a legitimate ass chewing, then so be it...BUT the instant the muzzle gets raised and pointed directly at another human being ALL the rules change and it's now assault with intent to kill.

The road we were on is even listed on the latest published version of the State of Indiana Hoosier Forest map as a "Road not maintained for passenger cars"...Hence the reason we wandered down that road. It has a starting point, an actual road name & an ending point that connects to another road....with NO Dead End sign on the end that we came in on. We had no clue what we were going to run into or we wouldn't have gone that way. Heck, we were just out trying to eunjoy the day doing some exploring of beautiful southern Indiana back roads, not out creating hatred & discontent. We weren't tearing anything up and when I said we were moving at a snail's pace, I wasn't far off. We were rolling on the actual gravel road & idling along in 2nd or 3rd gear...@ maybe 20MPH. Nobody was spinning a wheel and nobody got off into anyone's lawn or anything like that. In your case a chain across your driveway is a good idea. I don't see a thing wrong with that other than it's a pain to have to deal with every time you wanna travel in/out of your own driveway. (been there, lived that) I certainly hope that it stopped the possible would be thieves from whatever stupid acts they were planning on doing. In this particular case, some sorta sign up stating that states "County road ends HERE" and a chain up would have been nice but there was no such thing as that there.
Tpar and i have been voxing about what happened. im going to write some good information stuff when i get off work. Itll be good for those who decide to chandgun legally and those who are not handgun owners.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:35 PM   #9069
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Is it going to involve you saying you know Bob Costas and he should just get rid of his guns anyway because they are evil

Also have refer to video material like Deliverance

Oh yeah handgun vs. rifle not a good option either........maybe I need to switch to my underfolder in my backpack.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #9070
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Originally Posted by johnson357 View Post
Is it going to involve you saying you know Bob Costas and he should just get rid of his guns anyway because they are evil

Also have refer to video material like Deliverance

Oh yeah handgun vs. rifle not a good option either........maybe I need to switch to my underfolder in my backpack.
And if you do shoot just say "I dont pike to make money. I just love to sell guns."
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:53 PM   #9071
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Covered Bridge Country

70 degrees in Dec., how can I possibly be expected to handle work on a day like today... so I didn't. Went riding in Parke County today exploring back roads and looking for covered bridges. Came across 9 different ones... a few had places where you could ford the stream/river or just generally get down into the river bed... pretty cool. There are some really good dirt roads with lots of elevation changes and twisties out there. Some of the dirt roads even get a little sandy/soft, very fun.







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Old 12-03-2012, 07:13 PM   #9072
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Mississippi trip prep

I'm just about to finish the assembly of the route strips from Sam, did not guess it would take this long.

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/...203_195648.jpg

The plan is to leave at 6am , trailer my KLR to Sardis to start the Mississippi Hill Country Trail http://www.transamtrail.com/ on Wed morning. I've loaded the maps to GPS, created the roll charts, prep'd the bike and trailer. I've got another hour's packing gear yet, but the night's young.

I'll post photo updates to facebook along the way, send a friend request if you want to see progress. pm me if you can't fiind me on fb. I can post some updates to this thread from my phone, but pictures after the ride.

Sam planned this route as a one day down and one day back and says "plan 10 daylight hours". Oops, in December there are barely 10 hours of daylight, I do not want to ride hard, so I'm breaking up the ride into 3 sections, still have a 10 hour day on Wed. Camping at Holmes County State Park Wed and Thur.

Well that's the plan anyway, we'll see what the adventure brings.

Don
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:13 PM   #9073
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Originally Posted by johnson357 View Post
Oh yeah handgun vs. rifle not a good option either........maybe I need to switch to my underfolder in my backpack.
I have been carrying my SBR Noveske in a pack for a while now. I like that I am ready with something a bit more battle ready than the 9mm.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:21 PM   #9074
nickgindy
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Originally Posted by Kevinj110 View Post
I have been carrying my SBR Noveske in a pack for a while now. I like that I am ready with something a bit more battle ready than the 9mm.
Were going to have to start carrying aks then lol.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:23 PM   #9075
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The Defense Post

Disclaimer:
I am not a lawyer and I am not representing myself as a police officer but as someone giving guidance towards a subject that is racking some people's brains lately. This is not a pro gun or anti gun discussion. Anything I mention is stuff to just take in on your on and not necessarily what you should do or not do. tooslow4u and a few others encountered a a very scary and unpredictable situation a few days ago involving someone with a rifle. Although it looks like our inmates were in the right and on a public road the encounter of the individual is a tense situation. "well here comes some guy with a high powered rifle, stands in his front yard and proceeds to raise up and draw a friggin' bead on my back as I rode past. Then, when I'm already idled past, he is still raised up and draws a bead on one of the guys behind me" ~tooslow4u
Lets define deadly force and show its use according to Indiana Code.

Deadly force -
force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. In most jurisdictions, the use of deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed.

Forcible Felony - means a felony that involves the use or
threat of force against a human being, or in which there is imminent
danger of bodily injury to a human being.
*Let it be noted other states include burglary in the forcible felony definition but Indiana does not!*

IC (Indiana Code) 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) In enacting this section, the general assembly finds and declares that it is the policy of this state to recognize the unique character of a citizen's home and to ensure that a citizen feels secure in his or her own home against unlawful intrusion by another individual or a public servant. By reaffirming the long standing right of a citizen to protect his or her home against unlawful intrusion, however, the general assembly does not intend to diminish in any way the other robust self defense rights that citizens of this state have always enjoyed. Accordingly, the general assembly also finds and declares that it is the policy of this state that people have a right to defend themselves and third parties from physical harm and crime. The purpose of this section is to provide the citizens of this state with a lawful means of carrying out this policy.
(b) As used in this section, "public servant" means a person described in IC 35-41-1-17, IC 35-31.5-2-129, or IC 35-31.5-2-185.
(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(d) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(e) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (c).
(f) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person and does not have a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or stop the other person from hijacking, attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight. For purposes of this subsection, an aircraft is considered to be in flight while the aircraft is:
(1) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the doors of the aircraft are closed for takeoff; and
(B) until the aircraft takes off;
(2) in the airspace above Indiana; or
(3) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the aircraft lands; and
(B) before the doors of the aircraft are opened after landing.
(g) Notwithstanding subsections (c) through (e), a person is not justified in using force if:
(1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime;
(2) the person provokes unlawful action by another person with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action.
(h) Notwithstanding subsection (f), a person is not justified in using force if the person:
(1) is committing, or is escaping after the commission of, a crime;
(2) provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) continues to combat another person after the other person withdraws from the encounter and communicates the other person's intent to stop hijacking, attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight.
(i) A person is justified in using reasonable force against a public servant if the person reasonably believes the force is necessary to:
(1) protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force;
(2) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle; or
(3) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful trespass
on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect.
(j) Notwithstanding subsection (i), a person is not justified in using force against a public servant if:
(1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime;
(2) the person provokes action by the public servant with intent to cause bodily injury to the public servant;
(3) the person has entered into combat with the public servant or is the initial aggressor, unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the public servant the intent to do so and the public servant nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action; or
(4) the person reasonably believes the public servant is:
(A) acting lawfully; or
(B) engaged in the lawful execution of the public servant's official duties.
(k) A person is not justified in using deadly force against a public servant whom the person knows or reasonably should know is a public servant unless:
(1) the person reasonably believes that the public servant is:
(A) acting unlawfully;
(B) not engaged in the execution of the public servant's official duties; and
(2) the force is reasonably necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.8; Acts 1979, P.L.297, SEC.1; P.L.59-2002, SEC.1; P.L.189-2006, SEC.1; P.L.161-2012, SEC.1.

As you may have picked up from skimming all of the above the rifleman had no grounds what so ever of pointing his fire arm at any of our inmates. Our inmates did have a right to defend themselves if needed be at that point though. (This is not a Monday quarter back session so do not take it this way to everyone that was there.) I'm just using my experience from my years of active duty military with combat experience, my 2 years of executive protection, and my few years experience as a police officer. I personally think it was not tactically an opportune time to draw a weapon in self defense due to the rifleman already drawn down on our inmates so the best move was high tailing out of there like they did. Forget egos and anger and retreat if you can. Woodsrat made a good post in reply to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsrat View Post
Finally a good reason to have a GoPro. Record stuff like this and call the authorities.
The other thing is to absolutely, postively know where you are. There are little-used roads in that area that may very well be legal county roads or ROW's but locals protect them for whatever reason. They might have had a meth lab set up around there or something else highly illegal that they don't want strangers to see. More often than not I've found them to be good ol' boys with an overload of testosterone. If anyone points a gun at me and I survive the encounter I'm calling The Man.
Be careful out there.
Plus you don't bring a handgun to a rifle fight. It was a tense uncertain and rapidly evolving moment and the decision to get the f out was great. I say if any of us ever encounter this again, mark a way point on your gps (most of us have those) and call the authorities when it is safely convenient to and let them deal with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidc83 View Post
I think you are wrong on that; Indiana passed a law a couple/3 years ago stating we can protect our property, but I dont know if this covers other humans. Maybe the folks are tired of people casing out their places. I had to put a chain across my driveway due to people pulling up into my driveway at night and just sitting there, checking things out until I turned on my lights, then they would take off like a bat out of hades; or maybe they are tired of the damage off road bikes are doing to their property by careless/unthinking riders-the home owners cant tell the difference between courteous and dickhead riders.
What you are thinking of sir is the "castle doctrine". - an American legal doctrine that designates a person's abode (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as a car or place of work) as a place in which the person has certain protections and immunities and may in certain circumstances use force, up to and including deadly force, to defend against an intruder without becoming liable to prosecution. [Definition from Wikipedia.] Indiana recognizes the "castle doctrine" as the first part of the above listed indiana code. I will bold underline and italics the parts that must be met.

Sec. 2. (a) In enacting this section, the general assembly finds and declares that it is the policy of this state to recognize the unique character of a citizen's home and to ensure that a citizen feels secure in his or her own home against unlawful intrusion by another individual or a public servant. By reaffirming the long standing right of a citizen to protect his or her home against unlawful intrusion, however, the general assembly does not intend to diminish in any way the other robust self defense rights that citizens of this state have always enjoyed. Accordingly, the general assembly also finds and declares that it is the policy of this state that people have a right to defend themselves and third parties from physical harm and crime. The purpose of this section is to provide the citizens of this state with a lawful means of carrying out this policy.
(b) As used in this section, "public servant" means a person described in IC 35-41-1-17, IC 35-31.5-2-129, or IC 35-31.5-2-185.
(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.


In easy terms. If you feel your life or a third parties life to be in imminent danger you may use force as long as the burglar is not retreating. If you shoot a burglar in the back it will not turn out well for you unless he had a gun pointed behind him as he ran.
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