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Old 07-18-2009, 06:58 PM   #211
Stuntman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Remove it.
Why did I know you were going to say that!

I'll give that a try and see what happens.

Thanks!
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Stuntman screwed with this post 07-18-2009 at 07:13 PM
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:27 PM   #212
Singletrack_mind
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My bike goes to the dealer tomorrow for three recall service items (rad hose, frt. axle & new fuel level sender). While I was scheduling that I spoke with the 'service advisor' and he told me that yes, BMW is aware of stalling problems and has been interviewing dealers about their customer's experiences. The BMW rep who visited my dealership to discuss this talked about BMW developing some sort of deflector in front of the airbox inlets. (someone earlier in this thread had done something similar). It's aparently BMW's position that the wet weather stalling issues are being caused by water being sucked into the airbox from the intakes.

Thinking about this, I recall that Motoguzzi had a simillar problem with one of their models back around 1995/6. It had straight ram air intakes and a paper filter. Tons of bikes these days have ram air systems and don't stall in the rain, so there's got to be a simple fix. I have seen drains in the intake plumbing on Honda sport bikes & assume other MFGs have them too. The key would be to stop and accumulate the incoming water before it gets into the airbox where the EPA says "no vents to the open air".

Another thought: It would be very interesting to drive along side someone riding their GS800 in a good rain. I'd like to see how water migrates off the front of the bike. I am wondering if the angular protrusions on the sides of the "beak" might be concentrating spray from the front wheel and channelling streams of water into the air inlets. Looking at it dry, it looks possible.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:18 PM   #213
GB
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Thanks for the experimentation and video proof... We've had torrential downpours here and my 800 did not stall, but it also doesn't have a charcoal cannister. Only US spec'd bikes have them.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:44 PM   #214
geopsychicdude
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My F800GS stall problems

Finally, at about 6000 miles my 800gs had similar stall problems. I had just finished about 15 miles on a medium rough dirt road, running in 1st 2nd and ocasionally 3rd gear, with about 1/2 tank of gas. It was a warm day about 75 degrees, no rain, elevation 8000 feet +/-. As I slowed up to an intersection, in gear, as the engine speed approached idle it stalled and locked the rear wheel and skidded to a stop. I tried starting and it resisted. So I turned the key off, then back on, then it fired right up.

I then turned onto pavement rode about a mile and when decelerating to near idle rpm again it stalled. The same proceedure got it going. This happened about 6 times total in ten miles and then it hasn't happened again despite riding the additional 50 miles home. To me, its as if the fuel got hotter than normal because of all the low gear driving, and once it cooled down (riding on pavement) it functioned normally.

To me its acting just like a VW rabbit that we had years ago, and it had cronic vapor lock issues whenever the tank got about half full on hot days. Until we got the fuel pump replaced, we always had to keep the tank more than half full.

Other things to keep in mind is I do remember the last few times I've gotten gas the tank has been negatively pressurized?? I rode it 20 miles today, (street) still no new gas and no issues. The ride was to bring it in for the 6000 mile service. Mentioned it to the dealer and they acted as if they never heard of such a thing?? Also, I have had the bike on many similar rides as described in the first paragraph and never had it even think about stalling.

So whether the problem is ordinary vapor lock (I think hightest gas is LESS volatile), a misinterpretted sensor by the internal computer, a clogged canister (should happen all the time), a oneway breather tube that isn't breathing either way, or something else, I don't know. Hope BMW figures it out before I have to walk 30 miles to cell service.

One more possiblilty in my case could be some bad gas as it has only happened once in 6000 miles.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:58 PM   #215
CoydogSF
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An update on my case

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoydogSF
Once again, my case is *only* in hot weather after at least an hour riding and *only* with +/- 50 miles show on the OBC. Bike stalls but can be restarted and run over and over for up to 60 miles. In any case, I hope this information helps build upon the body of information related to this frustrating problem with these otherwise magnificent bikes.
Just to amend my previous post. I'm out now on the first week of a three week trip that will include the Western TAT (less Oregon) http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487054
and am finding that with the heat and ride lengths we're experiencing through NV, UT and CO, topping off the fuel no longer fixes the problem for me. In fact, after riding through mornings, waiting out the afternoons in the shade and continuing in the evening for three days, we decided to beeline it for Salt Lake City and a dealership. They found an engine temperature reading of -95 degrees in the diagnostics that could be causing (I love this) "runability issues" and were convinced it was a bad BMSK (Bavarian Motorrad Supen Komputer?).

We decided to blast to Denver where we could stay a night or two and have a new computer overnighted only to find once we got here that the readout was caused by a fault in the diagnostic software in SLC. Back to square one as of now but BMW of Denver is now diligently running their own diagnostics while we hang out in their super plush guest lounge. Yeah, maybe KTM's don't have this particular stalling problem but do their lounges have leather couches and big screen TV's?

I love adventure riding...
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:29 PM   #216
DockingPilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoydogSF
Yeah, maybe KTM's don't have this particular stalling problem but do their lounges have leather couches and big screen TV's?
Oh the pre FI 950's certainly did. And again, it was cannister related. Ask me how I know this.......
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:13 PM   #217
Singletrack_mind
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Joel, that's awesome! Thanks so much for taking time to experiment & document. As I posted earlier, I did experience my charcoal canister sucking up a surprising amount of water on a rain ride & then regurgitating it on the ground over the next few hours. Combined with your video, I see this as a compelling explanation for the stalling in the rain problems. That's a powerful vacuum!

I'll be plumbing in a "T".
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Old 07-24-2009, 07:27 PM   #218
rbuswell
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g650gs stall problems

Just to add a little twist to this thread. I have a 2009 single 650 and have about 1400 miles. 1st problem was a kickstand shut off sensor going gunny bags.

Went on a 170 mile trip last weekend. Filled my tank up at mile 30. Got the whole trip in within 1/2 mile of my house and the bike dies like it ran out of gas.

Got it home and in the shop. The service mgr says they are looking into the fuel sensor and mentioned the fuel injection system. Says they got to get into the bike so not sure when I'll see it back.

My ride got up to around 3000 feet in elevation and when it died I was going through some tight corners and decelerating.

My bike would not restart and sat for a couple of days prior to getting to the shop and wouldn't start for them either. It was trying to start but wouldn't keep running.

When you purchase a bike to take into the mtns this kind of unreliability is disconcerting to say the least.

So the issue seems to cross over and is not exclusive to the 800??

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Old 07-24-2009, 08:24 PM   #219
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Awesome reply!
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:58 PM   #220
WoodWorks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
Hopefully I have made my point...
Oh yeah!

David
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:58 PM   #221
rbuswell
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sorry fella

Didn't mean to ruin your day while voicing my frusteration with the new motorcycle. Didn't mean to disparage the BMW brand just voicing a llittle disappointment.

I have 5 cars all of which have over 150K, 3 chainsaws, a weedeater, a leaf blower and a garage full of other mechanical products. Probably by a few more before I croak. So I am definitely familiar with mechanical issues.

By the way I have 2 volvo's.

Probably the most frusterating thing for me is all of the new stuff is generally unworkable for an below average joe like me (you got that part right I'm a no nothing). Electronic gear and all...

I guess I'll just have to go out and see if I can find my old 1970 175 Yamaha. Fits closer with my mechanical abilities!
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:39 AM   #222
bxr140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
If this scares or disappoints you, don't ever buy anything mechanical.


That's a pretty dismissive attitude to have towards someone who's bummed that their umpteen thousand dollar motorcycle doesn't work as expected.
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:15 AM   #223
sturgeon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
It was supposed to be funny, sorry it wasn't to everyone. Read it pretending that I am wearing a dead straight face, using a monotone and speaking slowly. maybe it will sound different. :)
Funny stuff just ain't very funny any more when you have to 'splain it.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:18 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
I just typed out a long and helpful post describing what each and every sensor in the fuel injection system does, and my nice new MacBook crashed utterly to the point I had to hard reboot it :(

In short, because I do not have the energy to retype all of it tonight...

That post I made was mostly tongue in cheek and meant to be funny, thats why I explained it super simplistically and repetitively. But as with many attempts at good humor, there was supposed to be a moral to it.

That said.......

I deal with a lot of people who make themselves feel better when something unfortunate happens by trashing the quality, or design of objects, especially motorcycles or cars.

Further I deal with many people that are not technically inclined, which is fine, but go on to make judgements on supremely limited information about a model of vehicle they know nothing about and draw totally illogical conclusions.

These same people often pass the same judgements on technicians and shops with ignorance and malice, all so they can feel better about their own
misfortune or lack of technical knowledge.


There is absolutely NOT enough information in your post to say you are one of the people described above, but they do often start their posts in the same way, assuming their bike is shit and the manufacture is shit because they have had a couple of misfortunes.


I am going to assume you are not one of these people and if you don't have good news about your bike tomorrow I will retype a complete description of your fuel system tomorrow so you will understand exactly what can fail and how professionals diagnose it.

It was supposed to be funny, sorry it wasn't to everyone. Read it pretending that I am wearing a dead straight face, using a monotone and speaking slowly. maybe it will sound different. :)
So basically what you're saying is "they all do that".
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:53 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman
It was supposed to be funny, sorry it wasn't to everyone.
As a friendly piece of advice, before you hit send, re-read your posts, use emoticons, internet acronyms, etc. While the intent of your post may have been "people, infant mortality exists", it read as "I know more than you people, so STFU when anything bad happens". Again, as a bit of friendly advice, the most recent post didn't help your cause much either.
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