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Old 08-22-2009, 03:12 AM   #256
jpooch00
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnana
No charcoal canister and no wet weather stalls, If i do have one in the rain I suspect it would be coincidental.

There are several accounts of spills taking place from this and I personally came close to wrecking once already.

From the behavior I've experienced it seems like a computer thing, electronic, one second it's alive and the next it is dead. Gas and air don't seem like their nature leads to the explanation.

I'm going to see if new ECU software can be installed and after 500 miles or so I'll update you all.

Expect the stall, arrive alive.
I wonder if it coulcn't be something as simple as a slightly corroded or loose connection where the wireing harness plugs into the ECU? A while back, Harleys were having issues that sounded exactly like these and that's what it turned out to be. Just a guess, though.
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Old 08-23-2009, 05:00 AM   #257
Jnana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpooch00
I wonder if it coulcn't be something as simple as a slightly corroded or loose connection where the wireing harness plugs into the ECU? A while back, Harleys were having issues that sounded exactly like these and that's what it turned out to be. Just a guess, though.
In my case the stalls are happening in predictable situations. In fact, two stalls have happened at precisely the same point in my 30 mile commute.
Rolling on throttle after sedate driving, usually shortly after gear change up.

At the same time, starting became difficult. Mine does not seem like a short or bad gas. I'll know more after visiting dealer on 24th of Aug.
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Old 08-23-2009, 05:15 AM   #258
jpooch00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnana
In my case the stalls are happening in predictable situations. In fact, two stalls have happened at precisely the same point in my 30 mile commute.
Rolling on throttle after sedate driving, usually shortly after gear change up.

At the same time, starting became difficult. Mine does not seem like a short or bad gas. I'll know more after visiting dealer on 24th of Aug.
There was a guy over on the GSpot forum with symptoms exactly like yours. The problem resisted diagnosis for months. Turned out to be a heat-sensitive hall effect sensor. His particular problem did not throw falt codes.

Good luck at the dealer, hope it's not down too long.
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Old 08-24-2009, 11:40 AM   #259
bross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnana
In my case the stalls are happening in predictable situations. In fact, two stalls have happened at precisely the same point in my 30 mile commute.
Rolling on throttle after sedate driving, usually shortly after gear change up.

At the same time, starting became difficult. Mine does not seem like a short or bad gas. I'll know more after visiting dealer on 24th of Aug.
Just read this on F800Riders

Dunno whether this applies to your situation or not, but I think that it has fixed mine.

"US 22487806-03 Engine stalls if the clutch is pulled while the vehicle is in motion.

Complaint

!. When disengaged, e.g. when changing gear or rolling the vehicle to a stop, the engine may stall.

2. K71 only: when idling, the engine runs on only one cylinder.

Cause

Regarding 1:
BMS-K(P) software level
Swollen or deformed air intakes (between throttle valves and cylinder head)

Regarding 2 (K71 only):
Below the airbox: idling tubes kinked

Measure

Regarding 1:
Check the software level
K71: significant improvement from BMS-K software level CIP 9,2 or higher
K72: significant improvement from BMS-K software level CIP 12.0 or higher

If the "engine cuts out" symptom is present even though the software levels above have been loaded: convert to current air intakes (different material and geometric adjustment) P/N 11 11 7 720 771 installed on bikes since approx Nov 2008

Regarding 2: (K71 only)
convert to the preformed idling hoses P/N 13 71 7 713 893 if the old style is still fitted."

K71 bikes are S/ST models. K72 bikes are GSs.

Mine is a 2007 ST. I was having stalling problems in the heat. Seems the rubber gets old and limp and collapses in the heat. The idling hoses were replaced and seem to have solved the problem. You might want to have your dealer pull up that number and see what he thinks about your situation. I'm thinking about replacing the air intakes in addition to the already replaced idling hoses, just for good measure.

http://f800riders.org/forum/showpost...9&postcount=28

Sounds like it may apply..., good luck.
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:54 AM   #260
kd5pff
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I just got my F650GS (twin í09) back after 2 weeks in the shop.

I was on a trip when the engine started to randomly turn off. I had to turn the key off and turn it back one before it would start. This happened about 150 times in about 1.5 hours before I limped to the safety of a trailer. It had randomly died a few times in the weeks before but I had attributed it to me running it out of fuel or stalling the clutch (something I almost never do).


The first time it stalled the bike was really low on fuel, but the light had not come on yet. I have ridden at this point enough to know that I could make it to the gas station that was a mere mile away. I had just gunned it pretty hard and passed some weenies on the highway when it stalled. So I figured that I must have run it out of gas before the computer had time to put the light onÖ Even after filing it up with a small amount of fuel it stalled for a bit. But after getting it to a gas station and topping it off it didnít have any problems. It was a warm day, maybe 90-95 and I live at 700 ft elevation. It was not raining. The bike had only been running for 15 minutes.
It worked fine for a week then again after 15 minutes it stalled 3 times with an almost full tank of gas. I got it to run and flew to a gas station. I couldnít even squeeze in a gallon. It then worked fine for another week until the trip when it stalled 150 times.

The temperature on the trip it was probably 70-75 degrees, at the same elevation and again no rain. The bike had run at highway speeds for about an hour and I was probably almost at half a tank. It stalled. I filled it up. It ran for 30 minuets and the 150 stalls cameÖ thatís when I got it to the shop.

BMW replaced my fuel pump and said that it was caused by bad gas. They claim that ethanol can retain a lot of moisture and that itís generally not good for the bike. I donít disagree with that but Iím not sure how that can cause my fuel pump to completely die after 3 months and only 5500 miles on the bike. They said that they covered it under warranty this time but BMW wonít cover it next time. And they have to start checking the gas quality. This kind of pisses me off because I was never told that you canít run an ethanol mixture in these bikes. Half the time the gas stations donít even say what youíre even pumping. Even still Iíve run the same gas in my cars for yearsÖ..


Through the forums it seems that everyone is trying to find a pattern to why they are stalling (so was I) but this is what my local BMW shop said.

Does this make sense to anyone?

The worst part about testing the gas before covering a pump replacement is that I ran 3 different tanks of gas through the bike in 3 different cities and 3 different gas stations before the problem got serious enough that I had to trailer it around. How could they ever relate it to a specific tank of ďbad gasĒ they canít really know thatís what caused it?

I really just donít see how bad gas could cause my fuel pump to just stop randomly like that.

I know was a sputtering bike sounds like and this was not the case. I occasionally ride with a video camera on the bike and I was able to record the sound of the engine as it dies and as I restart it while coasting. So I can hear that it doesnít sputter. It just stops.

Since I got it back Iíve put about 200 miles on the bike and I have only filled it up with 100% gas. So Iíll keep my fingers crossed.

The only other problems Iíve had are the cracked gas tank and the bolts coming loose on my headlights. Other than that I love the bike.

Sorry for the long rant, hopefully this helps someone who may have the same problem.
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Old 09-21-2009, 01:17 PM   #261
Gangplank
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Guess if it was a bad fuel pump... don't buy the BS about the gas. If you buy gas at any station in the us and run it then it's covered under the warranty. If they don't cover it you'll win any claim re: it provided you put in the required 89 octaine.

Other possibilities - the OEM Battery? Do you use a battery tender? Did the dealer check your battery? Fill it? Charge it? I replaced mine with a Daka battery. Cost $100 but I know it will run for 5 years without a prob.
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Old 09-21-2009, 04:38 PM   #262
itsatdm
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That sounds sort of like my only experience with this stalling issue. I put about 2.5 gal in from a remote gas station that clearly said 10% ethanol added and the symptoms started about 50 miles later. Bike just up and quit at low rpms. Small little used station, +ethanol= water in gas? Dunno. Motor did not miss but definitely ran rougher till I got home. Seemed to eventually cure itself
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:17 AM   #263
kd5pff
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I always use 89 octane, but I know I have also used gas with ethanol. But Iíve use 10% ethanol since I bought the bike and like I said I have put 5500 miles on the bike with no problems. Many of those miles were from gas in smaller towns than the one that caused me the problems.

I think the battery is fine. I donít use a tender or anything, but its only 3 months old (for me, who knows how long it was in the shop) and until it went for a 2 week stay in the shop I have never let the bike sit for more than 2 days without riding it. And until todayís 50 F morning it hasn't been cold out here.

Frustrating... Iím going to call another dealer to get their opinion.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:14 AM   #264
upweekis
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purely a guess, but I wonder if 10% ethanol would smoke a fuel sensor?
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:05 PM   #265
Xskydiver
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Slightly different issue

My problem seems slightly different than what I have read here although related to fuel level. I have run mine down to the light a couple of times and not had any problems. The other day though I ran it down to 30 miles til empty and parked it (no light). The next morning it wouldn't start. I tried about ten times turning the key off and on. It finally started and the light came on as I pulled out of the driveway. I filled it up with gas (it took about 2.75 gallons). No problems after the fill up. Yesterday I parked it with 45 miles left (again no fuel light). This morning....are you ready for this?....It wouldn't start. This time I can't get it started at all. I'll call the dealer on Tuesday to have it towed in.
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Old 09-30-2009, 07:08 PM   #266
kd5pff
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your problem doesn't sound too far off from mine. my problems all started when i ran the tank down to the point just before the light. it wouldn't start again until i filled it all the way back up with gas. it only got worse from that point.

if 10% ethanol can destroy a sensor after 5500 miles then BMW needs to redesign it.

this is supposed to be a "adventure" bike that can be ridden all around the world. I can't believe that the gas in the far corners of the earth is better than the 10% ethanol in Oklahoma. How can you trust the bike in another country? I should be able to piss in the tank and run the bike!

I think id be happier if my dealer wouldn't have been so accusing and rude about this issue.

has anyone checked the manual to see what it says about ethanol? Ill do it now.

good luck to all that are dealing with this.

So far after a new fuel pump all is well.

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Old 10-01-2009, 03:41 AM   #267
DockingPilot
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thats bs, I just got home from a trip in Canada and ran nothing but, 10% ethenol gas. No problems.
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:20 AM   #268
kd5pff
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I spoke with a dealer/shop one state over and told them of my problem and they were actually helpful and friendly...

First they said that they haven't seen any fuel pump problems in a F650GS (twin). He also said that the bikes can run on 10% ethanol, like all vehicles. But no more.

He said that bad gas causing my prob is bs and that he doesn't really know why my (ex) dealer/shop would tell me that. Since he never saw the bike he can't tell me what caused it for sure. He did say not to listen to the dealer when they say they won't warranty the pump again. If it breaks due to a defect BMW will fix it while under warranty. All replaced parts have 1 year warranty. He said if the bike runs fine after the new pump then itís probably not going to happen again.

He also said that itís not the dealers job to make excuses for BMW.

I understand that things break, and that in any manufacturing environment there are always defects that get through quality. I don't like it when it happens to my bike, but itís a fact of life. I just wish that my (ex) dealer/shop could have given it to me straight like my new dealer/shop. And at the very least they didn't have to be ass holes about it.

Sorry for the rant.
This wonít likely help diagnose anything but it does clarify some things about warranties and ethanol.
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:30 AM   #269
alexcorral
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Ran it down to th epoint when th efuel ight turns on. Went to the pump with 20 mile range showing on the on-board computer. Fille dher up and no problems at all.

AS a matter of fact I haven't had any troubles with the F800GS (best bike I have ever owned/ridden)
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:46 PM   #270
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So my F8GS begins balking at start up...normally a hard look at the starter button and it fires right up. Does this twice and then the next day no start. I put it on the Battery Tender and it greened pretty quickly but still no start. This being the very reason I love the long BMW warranty, into the shop it goes. Seems my fuel pump is bad (something about low pressure) and now the wait for the mother ship to extrude a new one. Glad I have the 'Zuki DR 650 for a backup (my bike is my main source of transport). It ran just fine once started BTW.
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