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Old 04-09-2010, 01:20 PM   #346
Gangplank
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Yet another reason I plan to remove and plug off the hoses to my charcoal canister.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:28 PM   #347
DolphinJohn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Thought I'd chime in on this one due to some recent events with my F800GS. Here's the story. A few weeks back my battery died. Had to get towed to Hopkins Hitching Post. I bought a new battery and they tested it and put it in. The bike then started and ran just fine. On the ride home it ran great, and continued to run great until I hit up the gas station to fill 'er up a few days later. Immediately after that fill and until two days ago it exhibited stuttering and choppy running on deceleration and during idle. A few days ago, since this issue was bugging me very bad, I drove it down to Leo's South in Lakeville. Dan, the Master BMW Tech came out and gave the bike a quick listen and inspection. He asked if I over filled the tank the last time I filled. I confessed, yes. He said what happens is that when you over fill the tank, some the fuel will actually purge out of the tank vent hose and go down into the charcoal canister. So basically what was happening is that I over filled the tank which in turn flooded the charcoal filter with fuel. The engine management system sucks fuel vapors from the charcoal canister into the throttle bodies to get burned off. The problem is, when the canister gets literally logged with liquid fuel this makes the system suck too much fuel into the throttle bodies. This in turn richens the fuel/air mixture too much and causes stuttering and stalling. So how did I cure it? I removed the charcoal canister completely. It runs perfect now.

I may let the canister dry out and reinstall at a later date. But for now at least the bike is running smooth again.

Yeah, just like I said about a year ago.........
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:44 PM   #348
Lion BR
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I think that was covered somewhere else. But it could explain a few other things. Such as why American bound bikes (the ones with the canisters) have that tube at the tank filler. It makes it difficult for one to overfill the tank and flood the canister.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Thought I'd chime in on this one due to some recent events with my F800GS. Here's the story. A few weeks back my battery died. Had to get towed to Hopkins Hitching Post. I bought a new battery and they tested it and put it in. The bike then started and ran just fine. On the ride home it ran great, and continued to run great until I hit up the gas station to fill 'er up a few days later. Immediately after that fill and until two days ago it exhibited stuttering and choppy running on deceleration and during idle. A few days ago, since this issue was bugging me very bad, I drove it down to Leo's South in Lakeville. Dan, the Master BMW Tech came out and gave the bike a quick listen and inspection. He asked if I over filled the tank the last time I filled. I confessed, yes. He said what happens is that when you over fill the tank, some the fuel will actually purge out of the tank vent hose and go down into the charcoal canister. So basically what was happening is that I over filled the tank which in turn flooded the charcoal filter with fuel. The engine management system sucks fuel vapors from the charcoal canister into the throttle bodies to get burned off. The problem is, when the canister gets literally logged with liquid fuel this makes the system suck too much fuel into the throttle bodies. This in turn richens the fuel/air mixture too much and causes stuttering and stalling. So how did I cure it? I removed the charcoal canister completely. It runs perfect now.

I may let the canister dry out and reinstall at a later date. But for now at least the bike is running smooth again.
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Old 04-09-2010, 10:01 PM   #349
The Griz
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I know it was covered earlier, guys. Sorry. I just needed to vent about it I guess!
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:44 PM   #350
DolphinJohn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
I know it was covered earlier, guys. Sorry. I just needed to vent about it I guess!

Ha! "vent"... pun intended?

Glad you got it running right, Griz.



I told ya so :)







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Old 04-18-2010, 08:04 PM   #351
cheelleebutt
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hard start problem fixed

Hey guys. I finally got my 8GS back after 3+ weeks of the dealer trying to figure out what the problem was. Problem no. 1 was the battery going bad. Problem no. 2 was the fuel pump. After replacing the fuel pump, the bike starts right up. I'm on for extended testing but everything looks good. According to the service manager, there are at least 4 cases of 8GS encountering fuel pump problems in the people's republic of California. BMW NA is still suspecting the alcohol but won't officially say. It's possible that my problem could have been a defective fuel pump. I've been told to not use fuel stabilizer so BMW NA can keep track of progress. In the field testing I guess. Since they're flippin' $ for the parts, OK. I just hope they figure it out before my remain two years are up.
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:09 AM   #352
JRWooden
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I wonder if you got the "new and improved" fuel pump / electronics?


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Old 04-19-2010, 09:54 AM   #353
David_S
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Superseded does not necessarily mean new and improved When manufacturers get parts from a new/different suppliers they normally supersede the part numbers. At least auto manufacturers do.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:57 AM   #354
DockingPilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
So how did I cure it? I removed the charcoal canister completely. It runs perfect now



Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinJohn
Yeah, just like I said about a year ago.........
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:21 AM   #355
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_S
Superseded does not necessarily mean new and improved When manufacturers get parts from a new/different suppliers they normally supersede the part numbers. At least auto manufacturers do.
Go ahead burst my bubble ....
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Old 04-19-2010, 03:16 PM   #356
cheelleebutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
I wonder if you got the "new and improved" fuel pump / electronics?
I don't know. they don't tell me a whole lot if you know what I mean. All they told me was the battery is the newer gen. Beyond that... nada.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:06 AM   #357
David_S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
Go ahead burst my bubble ....
When they make changes to a part it also get superseded so it very well could be new and improved just know way to know for sure unless a TSB is issued stating it was superseded because of a change. Again I'm speaking from an auto back ground. When we have a part issue the manufacturer will issue a TSB stating to only use the new PN when performing a repair.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:04 AM   #358
JRWooden
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My limited experince (also with cars) in the old days was superceded meant "don't use the old one, it's crap" and that if there were multiple P/N that were all good-to-go they would just list all the diff. P/N as acceptable.

Toyota for example has several diff. P/N for some of the oil filters on their cars. I found out that is, as you said, supplier based - one P/N is made in Japan, another in Europe somewere etc. but they are all just listed in a "pick-one, any is good".

Oh for access to the TSB/Puma database...
Oh... and can I have a wiring diagram to go with my $80 Service manual ...
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:31 AM   #359
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I swear Nissan has people on the payroll to do nothing but supersede parts. They'll supersede the supersesion and I've even seen them superseded the superseded part back to the original unsuperseded PN which of course now is a superseded part even tho it's back to the original PN After 20 years of that crap I gave up believing superseded numbers mean anything but maybe it's just a Nissan thing?
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:52 AM   #360
JoelWisman
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Your not missing that much without PUMA.

As it is impliminted it is a one way street. Dealerships send cases off, someone else looks through the database and sends back a case that might fit and has a solution.

In any case, 95% of what we send up is just for permission like: "this guys thingymajigger is leaking everywhere, can we replace it under warranty" PUMA answer: "yes"

in any case, high tech cars and bikes were being repaired long before the advent of things like PUMA and still are by independent shops. PUMA as a diagnostic tool is like the section of old service manuals that used to list symptoms and possible causes and that was rarely usefull as well. What PUMA does give you access to is a top notch mechanic at the other end, that is often extremely usefull but I think you can understand why BMW is not about to pay their salary to answer customer questions.

What I miss is the manual sections that used to be called "Design and Function". That section would describe things like "the fuel pump is of the positive displacement type with a check valve at the outlet. A pressure sensor on the fuel rail sends a linear signal and if this signal indicates fuel pressure is below 31 psi, the fuel pump will prime for .5 seconds win ignition is switched on....."

I also miss values lists. values list would say things like: pin #31 at ecu goes to pin #2 of engine temperature sensor. pin 1 of temperature sensor goes to pin 6 of ecu and is ecu ground. With ignition on the ecu supplies 5 volts at 1 megaohm. With an engine temperature of 68 deg f voltage should be 4.5 v. With temperature of 210 f voltage should be .6 volts....."

the above are made up cause we don't get values lists or design and function.

The solution is of course to take apart a known good runner and sort of reverse engineer it, or submit a PUMA and wait for instructions.
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