ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > Parallel Universe
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-25-2011, 10:01 PM   #541
JoelWisman
Beastly Adventurer
 
JoelWisman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: STL, MO, USA
Oddometer: 1,389
[QUOTE=Singletrack_mind;16253816]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
Haven't heard a thing about the fuel pump being redesigned, but if so, that's fantastic
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post

My part number for this new fuel pump was either 16-14-7-720-778 (identified as "Fuel pump. electron") or 16-14-7-723-151 (identified as "Fuel Pump unit with depends on year")

Those are exactly the same two PNs that were listed back in August of 2010 when this happened to me the first time and both were replaced.

If BMW improves something like the fuel pump, and it becomes standard issue replacing the first model, does the PN get changed or not?
No. Part #'s and improvements / supplier switches occur both with and without the number changing, and sometimes they change the # for near as I can tell, no reason at all.

If they did change the pump, and I hope they did, at least in the USA market, it is overdue.

But I have no specific knowledge of this change. It is pretty standard practice for manufactures to not admit changes like this.
__________________
Owned to date. Honda Aero 50, Honda Elite 80, Honda Elite 250x2, Suzuki Katana, Suzuki RF600, Yamaha YZF1000R, Kymco Xciting 500, Suzuki GS500, Suzuki Burgman 650, BMW F800GSx2, BMW S1000RR, Aprilia Scarabeo 200, Aprilia Caponord, Aprilia Sportcity 250
I love and miss you Jeneca and I'm sorry.
JoelWisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 10:20 AM   #542
YetiGS
No Talent Ass Clown
 
YetiGS's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 7,164
[QUOTE=JoelWisman;16254253]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack_mind View Post
[I]

No. Part #'s and improvements / supplier switches occur both with and without the number changing, and sometimes they change the # for near as I can tell, no reason at all.

If they did change the pump, and I hope they did, at least in the USA market, it is overdue.

But I have no specific knowledge of this change. It is pretty standard practice for manufactures to not admit changes like this.
Joel, did you see my post above yours. Looks like the part no. for my pump is different. Any way for you to see if this is a supseding part no and/or confirm if it's a new design pump?
__________________
-Scott-
Semper Fi
'04 BMW R1150GSA, '04 KTM 625 SXC
"You had better bring an extra magazine. Yeti's amped up on weird shit are hard to bring down." Lonestar2112
YetiGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 10:26 AM   #543
johngil
Reseda, CA
 
johngil's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Oddometer: 3,646
The brokeback beemer went to sleep yesterday with well over a gallon in the tank. Weather was hot and had just dropped 2000' in a short period of time. Had my earplugs in when I opened the tank so I can't say if there was a vacuum gulp.
Topped her off and rode on.
johngil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 07:38 PM   #544
Singletrack_mind
Cave Man
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Northern New Mexico
Oddometer: 356
[QUOTE=YetiGS;16256566]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
Joel, did you see my post above yours. Looks like the part no. for my pump is different. Any way for you to see if this is a supseding part no and/or confirm if it's a new design pump?


Yeti, your PN matches what I am thinking was the fuel pump control unit on my bike. Go back a couple posts and compare my PNs with yours, and the somewhat cryptic descriptions I copied off my invoices.
Singletrack_mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 09:36 AM   #545
YetiGS
No Talent Ass Clown
 
YetiGS's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 7,164
[QUOTE=Singletrack_mind;16259596]
Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS View Post


Yeti, your PN matches what I am thinking was the fuel pump control unit on my bike. Go back a couple posts and compare my PNs with yours, and the somewhat cryptic descriptions I copied off my invoices.
Bummer. When I read your post somehow I missed seeing the second part no. Oh well.
__________________
-Scott-
Semper Fi
'04 BMW R1150GSA, '04 KTM 625 SXC
"You had better bring an extra magazine. Yeti's amped up on weird shit are hard to bring down." Lonestar2112
YetiGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 09:14 AM   #546
Gangplank
Advenchaintourer
 
Gangplank's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Las Vegas
Oddometer: 2,172
I find it curious that some crap out, others don't.

I've owned a few BMW's. On my BMW F650GS Dakar I could run any gas I wanted. Bike ran great no matter what. I had a 2005 X5 also and that car was more finikey on gas than anything with a motor I've owned. If I put in Chevron or Shell midgrade it ran fine. Manual called for Midgrade. If I put in any cheaper brand or 7-11/no-name stations brands I had to run super or else it would suffer from rough idle. Since the cost was the same I usually ran Chevron whenever I could. (Sold that and got a 3rd gen 4 runner, which is like the old F650GSD. Runs on anything fine).

I know people say there is no difference in gas but in my personal experience my BMW liked Chevron and Shell gasolines better. Can't explain why other than more techron in the Chev (or whatever the shell brand of it is in theirs)

For The F800GS I still use Chevron or Shell midgrade (plus). If not those then I bump it up to super for the no-brand stuff and I try to not use no-brand gas twice in a row. If I do then sometimes I bump it up to Chevron Super at next fill-up or I get a bottle of the techron and add a little to the tank.

Joel. My question for ya is if I run Chev which already has the techron in it... seems to me I wouldn't need to add the BMW techron 1 oz. ??
__________________
Ride more, bark less
Gangplank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 09:44 AM   #547
NCD
Dirty Hairy
 
NCD's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Oddometer: 418
Hey Joel (or anyone else that knows for sure):

If you find yourself having to power the fuel pump direct from 12v in a 'dead controller' situation, you UNPLUG the 3 wire connection at the pump and run wires to these pin locations ON THE PUMP correct? Sorry if the pic is confusing, I wanted to show the color of the wires on the bike vs. + and - of wires from the battery direct.

NCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 02:32 PM   #548
Singletrack_mind
Cave Man
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Northern New Mexico
Oddometer: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post

Joel. My question for ya is if I run Chev which already has the techron in it... seems to me I wouldn't need to add the BMW techron 1 oz. ?


I'm with Gangplank on this question Joel, I'd love to hear your answer. After my first fuel pump & control unit were replaced, I started using 4OZ every 1000 miles. Then, after the second fuel pump/controller AND pressure sender were replaced, BMW told me to run 2OZ Techron every 1000 miles.

I have to wonder, since it didn't seem to help me the first time . . . and like Gangplank says, do I need to do it if I am filling up most of the time at a chevron station?
Singletrack_mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 06:13 PM   #549
Bicyclist
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Bicyclist's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Oddometer: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCD View Post
Hey Joel (or anyone else that knows for sure):

If you find yourself having to power the fuel pump direct from 12v in a 'dead controller' situation, you UNPLUG the 3 wire connection at the pump and run wires to these pin locations ON THE PUMP correct? Sorry if the pic is confusing, I wanted to show the color of the wires on the bike vs. + and - of wires from the battery direct.

You must unscrew and remove the controller from the top of the tank. Underneath the controller, you will find a short pair of wires running to a two pin connector. Unplug the connector. The two pins exposed on top of the tank are where you connect your direct battery power. If I recall correctly, the one with a sort of square corner next to it is positive.

edit: The thing with the fins on it in your pic is the controller, not the pump. Take that three pin connector off and remove the controller. The other connector seen in your pic is the fuel level float .

Bicyclist screwed with this post 06-30-2011 at 06:18 PM
Bicyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 06:54 PM   #550
JoelWisman
Beastly Adventurer
 
JoelWisman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: STL, MO, USA
Oddometer: 1,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack_mind View Post

I'm with Gangplank on this question Joel, I'd love to hear your answer. After my first fuel pump & control unit were replaced, I started using 4OZ every 1000 miles. Then, after the second fuel pump/controller AND pressure sender were replaced, BMW told me to run 2OZ Techron every 1000 miles.

I have to wonder, since it didn't seem to help me the first time . . . and like Gangplank says, do I need to do it if I am filling up most of the time at a chevron station?
Hmmmm. Some company structure. First, there's a bunch of guys in Germany. Many are important, some are very smart. I know precisely two of them, and neither has the background to have an opinnion of techron.

Next you have BMW Motorrad USA. I know a lot of these guys from low on the totem pole to NJ guys that have huge paychecks whom I try never to offend.

The most relevant guys in the USA are the technical boss, Shawn, and the 4 feild service engineers that combined comprise the last word on technical matters for the whole of the USA.

Next you have a bunch of independently owned franchises called dealerships. Dealerships vary vastly in what positions they have, duties they perform, and professional / educational backgrounds.

From the top. Dealer principal. That would be the owner or chief executive oficer.

Fixed ops director. Only really huge dealerships have one of these. A fixed ops director is in charge of service, parts, and body shop. If it's a multi line dealer, he will be in charge across all lines. Fixed ops need not have any technical skills, though it is a plus. Above all else, fixed ops needs to be a talented business man and an astute manager.

Next down the chain is service boss. Only big shops have one of these unless the service writer really likes the title "service manager" and the real manager is humoring him.

Next we have service manager. This is perhaps the most missed used title in the industry. A real service manager has a budget, goals he is expected to meet, and keys to the building. He hires and fires everyone else in his department. Prepares financhial statements or directs an account how to. He's the boss. A service manager need not have any technical abilities. I have yet to meet a real service manager in the motorcycle industry. Most motorcycle service managers are a mix of other things and have little or nothing to do with the management side of things. BMW has almost no technical requirements for officially rating as a service manager and will never check if your using this title correctly.

Next up is shop foreman. The shop foreman is the back end manager. He manages techs often techs himself, and is usually involved in technician evaluations and training. BMW places no greater technical requirements on shop foreman then service writters, but, they damn well expect more technical knoweledge from one who is officially performing this job and a shop would be foolish to employ a shop foreman that wasn't cream of the crop at teching.

To the side of the shop foreman is the warranty clerk. The requirements are entirely administrative, but technical skills are a big plus.

Next down is the service writter. Service writters aren't expected to have any more technical skills then any position above, but technical skills help. The service writter is the face of the service department and needs to be talented at sales if the shop wishes to make good money.

Then you have the majority of franchises that mis-use these titles and or employ people who wear more then one of these hats.

So, when you say "BMW said" who are you refering to? If it is an employee of a dealership, then you are not hearing anything BMW said unless that individual is quoting someone at BMW in which case the question becomes "the aperal marketer's typist? IT? FSE? ACM? Or perhaps the parts help desk staff, who likes to sell techron lol.

I'm not picking on you singletrack, just expressing my personal wish to hear the source.

My opinnion... 4oz every 1000 miles. I arrived at this reccomendation in consultation with my previous FSE Mike. Don't think I've discussed it with my new FSE, Jack. If your in California, your dealerships FSE is Martin who is as bright as they come.

As to running Chevron gas. It has a concentration of techron that equals about 10% streingth compared to adding 1oz per gallon. source: don't remember his name but he was a chemical engineer in charge of techron product at Chevron. Heard this about 10 years ago when I was an fse working for VOLVO NA.

Further, BMW techron is a slightly different formulation then chevron techron. It has all the same chemicals but in different concentrations and ratios. It's supposed to be tailord for what goes wrong with our bikes, so said Shawn, technical boss. BMW USA.

Last lastly. Techron might prevent a few controller failures, but most go from water intrusion or just electrically fail.

I can't fathom techron doing anything good or bad for a fuel pressure sensor.

Just my opinnion, so not a directive from the mother ship, BMW :p
__________________
Owned to date. Honda Aero 50, Honda Elite 80, Honda Elite 250x2, Suzuki Katana, Suzuki RF600, Yamaha YZF1000R, Kymco Xciting 500, Suzuki GS500, Suzuki Burgman 650, BMW F800GSx2, BMW S1000RR, Aprilia Scarabeo 200, Aprilia Caponord, Aprilia Sportcity 250
I love and miss you Jeneca and I'm sorry.
JoelWisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 07:05 PM   #551
Gangplank
Advenchaintourer
 
Gangplank's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Las Vegas
Oddometer: 2,172
Well, I'm not buying any BMW'ron additive (or any other liquid that goes in my bike for that matter) from the dealer. Next they will start selling BMW gasoline and ask us to go to the dealer to get that. or wait...
__________________
Ride more, bark less
Gangplank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 07:21 PM   #552
JoelWisman
Beastly Adventurer
 
JoelWisman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: STL, MO, USA
Oddometer: 1,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicyclist View Post
You must unscrew and remove the controller from the top of the tank. Underneath the controller, you will find a short pair of wires running to a two pin connector. Unplug the connector. The two pins exposed on top of the tank are where you connect your direct battery power. If I recall correctly, the one with a sort of square corner next to it is positive.

edit: The thing with the fins on it in your pic is the controller, not the pump. Take that three pin connector off and remove the controller. The other connector seen in your pic is the fuel level float .
What he said! I don't remember which terminal is positive and which is negative, and it does matter :)

Going direct also often un sticks a stuck pump as there's considerable voltage drop through the controller and associated wires.

Just remember, the circuit functions as the fuse for the fuel pump. If your going direct, you have no fuse, unless you install one, which of course might be too small or big, fast or slow.

I don't know what would happen if the pump got stuck or had a short. At best, it wouldn't be good. Probably not worthy of a Hollywood action movie, but definantly not desirable!
__________________
Owned to date. Honda Aero 50, Honda Elite 80, Honda Elite 250x2, Suzuki Katana, Suzuki RF600, Yamaha YZF1000R, Kymco Xciting 500, Suzuki GS500, Suzuki Burgman 650, BMW F800GSx2, BMW S1000RR, Aprilia Scarabeo 200, Aprilia Caponord, Aprilia Sportcity 250
I love and miss you Jeneca and I'm sorry.
JoelWisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 07:23 PM   #553
JoelWisman
Beastly Adventurer
 
JoelWisman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: STL, MO, USA
Oddometer: 1,389
Cool2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
Well, I'm not buying any BMW'ron additive (or any other liquid that goes in my bike for that matter) from the dealer. Next they will start selling BMW gasoline and ask us to go to the dealer to get that. or wait...
BMW gasoline, that's brilliant! Forwarding your suggestion to aftersales right away
__________________
Owned to date. Honda Aero 50, Honda Elite 80, Honda Elite 250x2, Suzuki Katana, Suzuki RF600, Yamaha YZF1000R, Kymco Xciting 500, Suzuki GS500, Suzuki Burgman 650, BMW F800GSx2, BMW S1000RR, Aprilia Scarabeo 200, Aprilia Caponord, Aprilia Sportcity 250
I love and miss you Jeneca and I'm sorry.
JoelWisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 06:58 PM   #554
Singletrack_mind
Cave Man
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Northern New Mexico
Oddometer: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
Hmmmm. Some company structure.
So, when you say "BMW said" who are you refering to? If it is an employee of a dealership, then you are not hearing anything BMW said unless that individual is quoting someone at BMW in which case the question becomes "the aperal marketer's typist? IT? FSE? ACM? Or perhaps the parts help desk staff, who likes to sell techron lol.

I'm not picking on you singletrack, just expressing my personal wish to hear the source.
:p


Thanks for clearing up Techron additive VS Techron in Chevron pump gas VS BMW's Techron. Still not wicked pleased to be told my "Adventure bike" needs this special sauce.

As for what failed on my bike the first time, (before techron), it could have been either the pump or the controller, the dealer only told me that BMW said* to replace both at once. the second time,(after techron at your recommended dilution) I was told by the "Service adviser" that my bike "ran all day" when they disconnected the pressure sensor, sot hey thought that was it, but BMW said* replace all three parts this time. The individual who told me the fuel pump had been improved to withstand ethanol had just recently been hired in from out of state to be the "Service manager**, however he was also serving as the actual mechanic for some of the time on my bike, and the Service adviser*** the rest of the time.

* I understand your point, but I have no way of knowing who on board the mothership is promulgating these statements, or from which orifice.

** this is a small dealership, you have listed about 3 times as many titles as there are employees on the motorcycle side of the operation.

*** The first "Service adviser" mentioned above was fired the day after he made this statement. I suspect he had no idea what he was talking about, as the day before he'd given me the "two cables rubbing together and causing electrical interference" excuse.

I have to say, churn in this dealership is amazing. I have dealt with 4 service advisers since I bought the bike, now there is a 5th.This in a dealership that seems to have 5 motorcycle employees. Other positions have turned over just as fast, with te exception of the parts guy.
Singletrack_mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 09:53 PM   #555
JoelWisman
Beastly Adventurer
 
JoelWisman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: STL, MO, USA
Oddometer: 1,389
Sorry to hear about all that Singletrack. Kinda hard to develop a relationship at your dealership if it's a new guy each time you come in :(

I gave the verbose reply about BMW and dealerships because 1: I troll the net to learn new things, but it's so hard to separate solid information from mush. And 2: if someone at corporate or a dealership has a different opinion from mine, I want to know who they are so if they are someone I respect, I can discuss it with them and perhaps learn something new.

Although motorcycles are a science, often we in the biz are just guessing which is unfortunately the brutal truth.

If the individual who told the dealer 2oz of techron every 1000 miles is the same one that said "replace the pump, controller, and pressure sender", then that would just about have to be your dealers FSE. For California that would be Martin.

All bmw's FSE's are good, but I have paticularly high faith in anything Martin says.

Now the question becomes "did Martin suggest 2nd per k as a minimum, or cause more does something bad I don't know about???

This troubles me, fortunately I am in a position to find out, but not immediatly :(

As for replacing all 3 componants.... I'm sure not all 3 were bad, more likely since it is a repeat problem, BMW is being agressive and replacing everything they think could cause the problem to nail it for sure.

As to a new hardened fuel pump. Still haven't heard anything about this but that doesent mean anything. It does fit nicely with my theory that the fuel pump is the root cause of most injector failures and I could see it being hard on controllers as well, though only if they are sub optimally specd.

Here's to the hope the fuel pump has been upgraded! Weather poor quality fuel kills the pump or not, this is a country off poor quality fuel and the bikes really should hold up to it IMO.

Fingers crossed for both a new pump design and your bike being fixed.

Ride often and have fun!
__________________
Owned to date. Honda Aero 50, Honda Elite 80, Honda Elite 250x2, Suzuki Katana, Suzuki RF600, Yamaha YZF1000R, Kymco Xciting 500, Suzuki GS500, Suzuki Burgman 650, BMW F800GSx2, BMW S1000RR, Aprilia Scarabeo 200, Aprilia Caponord, Aprilia Sportcity 250
I love and miss you Jeneca and I'm sorry.
JoelWisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014