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Old 03-20-2009, 08:06 AM   #106
bxr140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN
how would you explain my F8 suddenly runs fine in the rain after installing the temporary fix I posted pic of?
You didn't understand what I said.

I'd like to know *why* your blockoff plates seem to eliminate the stalling problem--something a little more analytical than "because water can't get into the airbox now".

Motorcycles have been rolling around for years with ram-air systems that are much more exposed than the 800GS...which is really just forward facing, aesthetically pleasing intakes rather than 'ram air'. Why don't they have a problem, especially considering that they're designed to cram as much of the atmosphere (and everything in it) into their airboxes as possible?
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:24 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
You didn't understand what I said.

I'd like to know *why* your blockoff plates seem to eliminate the stalling problem--something a little more analytical than "because water can't get into the airbox now".

Motorcycles have been rolling around for years with ram-air systems that are much more exposed than the 800GS...which is really just forward facing, aesthetically pleasing intakes rather than 'ram air'. Why don't they have a problem, especially considering that they're designed to cram as much of the atmosphere (and everything in it) into their airboxes as possible?
shape of the airbox, maybe? The F8 box has a depression in the bottom, with a valve in the middle of it that sucks air(or water) directly into the engine when it opens
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:29 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
You didn't understand what I said.

I'd like to know *why* your blockoff plates seem to eliminate the stalling problem--something a little more analytical than "because water can't get into the airbox now".

Motorcycles have been rolling around for years with ram-air systems that are much more exposed than the 800GS...which is really just forward facing, aesthetically pleasing intakes rather than 'ram air'. Why don't they have a problem, especially considering that they're designed to cram as much of the atmosphere (and everything in it) into their airboxes as possible?
You are correct about ram air intake design on other motorcycles not having problems, but my F8 seems to be different in that regard.

The block-off plates are angled @ about 45 deg to deflect rain, yet retain an open space behind the plates to allow the engine to receive air.

With plates installed I have a dry air filter in heavy rains. I know this because I inspected the air box and filter after a recent ride in a downpour.

With plates removed( stock)I have a very wet air filter and standing water in air box.
I can only assume that the plates block most of or all of the water from entering. (logical conclusion)

AS to the physics of why this ram air set is having problems and others do not........... I'm not that intelligent!

Sorry for being so dense but I hope this makes it clearer.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:25 PM   #109
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Issue only on the F800GS

Is this issue pretty much isolated to the F800GS? Anyone had the problem on the F650 twin? I just read the entire thread and noticed only one specific mention of the issue on a F650 twin. (could be that I missed when someone mentioned it happened on their F650 twin).

The reason I mention this is due to the air intake difference between the F800 and F650. If this issue is pretty much exclusively on the 800GS, that might point some blame at the intakes. (Although the bikes obviously have some ecu programming differences..so the ECU could still be the culprit)

Just a thought..
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:30 PM   #110
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The scientist in me would want to see if rain is the problem by putting water in the airbox directly and seeing if it causes the stalling problem. That way you can remove the ram-air system as a variable.

However, the pragmatist in me wants somebody else to do it...
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Old 03-22-2009, 07:46 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr7q
The scientist in me would want to see if rain is the problem by putting water in the airbox directly and seeing if it causes the stalling problem. That way you can remove the ram-air system as a variable.

However, the pragmatist in me wants somebody else to do it...
My service manager did just that on a F800 demo bike. He took out the air filter and poured water from a bottle into the air box while running at idle with the result being a stall. Repeated this with the engine running at 1/4 throttle or higher with NO stall. I was there to witness this.

It seems the idle air by pass valve sit on the bottom of the air box and cannot handle the influx of water, however at when the bike is off of the idle circuit it does bog a bit, but no stall. Run the motor up to 4000 rpm and the motor seemed to fine while pouring several ounces of water into the throttle bodies

My service manager told me that some mechanics have used spray bottles to inject water into engines to clean carbon deposits with the steam created by the water

Personally, I would like to clean my carbon deposits the old fashion way.................. WOT down the freeway

Glen
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:30 PM   #112
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stalling

go to the GS Recall thread... us the link to look at the recall items. it talks about a possible problem if the wiring is not secured under the airbox. The wiring could possibly rub a small hole in the harness causing it to short out & the bike stalling... I don't remember all the specifics.. but it is mentioned on the site... hope this helps !
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:13 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shleppy
Is this issue pretty much isolated to the F800GS? Anyone had the problem on the F650 twin? I just read the entire thread and noticed only one specific mention of the issue on a F650 twin. (could be that I missed when someone mentioned it happened on their F650 twin).

The reason I mention this is due to the air intake difference between the F800 and F650. If this issue is pretty much exclusively on the 800GS, that might point some blame at the intakes. (Although the bikes obviously have some ecu programming differences..so the ECU could still be the culprit)

Just a thought..
My F650gs twin stalled in the rain. But only in a horrible storm with wind blowing sheets of rain. I have posted that on this site and maybe it has already been read about. I am absolutely stupid about mechanics, but I thought it was the air intake just because it is a straight shot from outside to inside and it acted like water got into it. I have been in rain when it didn't stall, but it wasn't very windy, just raining. The air intake looks different but it is in the same position. I don't see much difference in the air intake except for the looks. Other than that it is a straight shot and the guts appear to be the same. But what do I know??
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:49 PM   #114
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My wife's 09 650GS has died a couple tmes in the rain; the first time it had been sitting out in an all day thunderstorm; the bike started fine but then was running crappy and died when she slowed and went around a corner. The second time was when she had ridden seven miles to work and pulled into her parking area and it died and was running rough before she stopped. We called the dealer and next time we are in they will put a hose to it but we might try partially blocking the air intake if we see it may be ridden in the rain?????
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:18 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN

Also forgot to mention my carbon canister was full of water and that was replaced under warranty, but I will probably remove that soon.

Thanks
Glen

I rode yesterday in torrential rain for 100 miles. It never let up.
I'm talking about the kind of rain that looks solid red on the radar, with the
"severe thunderstorm warning" box around it. Visibility about 100 ft..
Flashers on, 35-40 mph just trying to get through it to get home.

The bike would run ok, but stall most times when I stopped. (wouldn't idle)
It would restart, then idle ok.
It's kinda scary when you downshift to slow for a light and the bike stalls when you pull the clutch, but you didn't realize it stalled, so you let the clutch out and the rear tire just slides on the wet road for a few seconds before the bike starts.

My tank was getting low, I stopped to refuel. When I opened the cap, there was so much vacuum it was hard to open. I refueled, and the bike ran perfectly all the way home.

I'm convinced it is the full canister preventing venting that causes the stalling. When the tank is full, there is not enough space for vacuum.

I don't know how the canister gets filled. I'm taking it off as soon as I get a day to work on it.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:58 AM   #116
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John, my dealer (ssshhhh) removed mine. I qoute "those things suck, everyone should remove them"
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:42 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinJohn
I rode yesterday in torrential rain for 100 miles. It never let up.
I'm talking about the kind of rain that looks solid red on the radar, with the
"severe thunderstorm warning" box around it. Visibility about 100 ft..
Flashers on, 35-40 mph just trying to get through it to get home.

The bike would run ok, but stall most times when I stopped. (wouldn't idle)
It would restart, then idle ok.
It's kinda scary when you downshift to slow for a light and the bike stalls when you pull the clutch, but you didn't realize it stalled, so you let the clutch out and the rear tire just slides on the wet road for a few seconds before the bike starts.

My tank was getting low, I stopped to refuel. When I opened the cap, there was so much vacuum it was hard to open. I refueled, and the bike ran perfectly all the way home.

I'm convinced it is the full canister preventing venting that causes the stalling. When the tank is full, there is not enough space for vacuum.

I don't know how the canister gets filled. I'm taking it off as soon as I get a day to work on it.
John your experience in the rain sounds like a mirror image of mine with the exception of vacuum present in the tank. I can not remember ever having that. I know that the carbon canister would fill up with water while riding in heavy rains as you described. (canister is now gone)
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:25 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN
John your experience in the rain sounds like a mirror image of mine with the exception of vacuum present in the tank. I can not remember ever having that. I know that the carbon canister would fill up with water while riding in heavy rains as you described. (canister is now gone)

Since removing the canister do you have stalling problems in heavy rain?
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:47 PM   #119
ROYAL COACHMAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinJohn
Since removing the canister do you have stalling problems in heavy rain?
No stalling in heavy rain since installation of block-off plates.(removed canister later)

However just recently, the bike has stalled in 70 deg /with blue skies.
Go figure
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:56 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN
No stalling in heavy rain since installation of block-off plates.(removed canister later)

However just recently, the bike has stalled in 70 deg /with blue skies.
Go figure
Was the bike hot when this happened? Was the tank half or less full?

I'm certain that this is going to be an ongoing problem with the F800gs. I got mine back from the dealer about 5 times for the same stalling issue. I'm in Hawaii, so the weather is generally pretty hot. The bike would run fine when the tank was full, then it would run down, and on hot days it would stall. It wouldn't run properly until it either cooled down totally, or I filled the gas tank.

I'm almost certain that the reason is that the fuel pump sits inside the gas tank, and when the tank is full, the fuel actually cools the pump down. When it is hot outside, and the bike is hot, and the fuel tank is down, the fuel pump is exposed to the heat and this causes some kind of electrical interference. I have now had three different fuel pumps in my bike, and I'm almost certain this is the issue. I'd be willing to bet money that as the summer warms up, there will be many more F800gs owners suffering from the same problem.
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