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Old 03-29-2012, 12:21 PM   #781
crypto666
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Oh, I almost forgot and something to consider when putting your system together: I like to use the LiFe batts and build my own packs because I can split them up for installation. I build two packs of two cells so that I could stuff them in the nook and crannies of the bike instead of having one big honken battery that has to have its own special place.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:12 PM   #782
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xr650 juice and battery

Hi, I'm a new XR650R owner and just getting up to speed on converting it to dual sport. Been reading the threads on this topic. With the new battery technology out now, is it possible to do a high out put stator set up, and run one of these?

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Old 03-29-2012, 11:33 PM   #783
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[QUOTE=Buell78753;18337784]Hi, I'm a new XR650R owner and just getting up to speed on converting it to dual sport. Been reading the threads on this topic. With the new battery technology out now, is it possible to do a high out put stator set up, and run one of these?

[/QUOTE
How much power did you have in mind from the stator? 250W is typical. I know one guy using a Shorai in a supermoto XRR and seems to like it. Fairly expensive but good quality.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:12 AM   #784
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Originally Posted by duckfart View Post
Hello i could use some help. I have a RS 200 watt stator, RS rectifier/regulator, and a RS capacitor.I need to run 2 aux lights plus my vapor computer. Do i replace the stock regulator with the rectifier/regulator. Or run both of them. And does the capacitor just wire into the rectifier/regulator like a battery would red to red black to black.And can i pull power for lights off the pos/neg off of the capacitor . Also i was planning running single output 200 watts.I also have a ProCycle dual sport kit. Any help would be very welcome Thanks.
Most dual sport kits are designed to use two 100 w stator outputs, one usually at 100w AC, the second 100w DC, so if you run single output 200w DC through those kit wires/switches it may not be long before you get problems. Hot wires and voltage loss due to the high resistance are common. I'd just toss the kit wires and make your own harness. If you're going all DC you don't need the stock AC regulator and yeah you can just use a capacitor instead of a battery, although with batteries so cheap and light I'd really recommend using one - you'll have a much better working system overall. Your ProCycle regulator/rectifier is only rated at 150w so I'd get a 250w version from Ricky Stator.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:46 AM   #785
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[QUOTE=Gildus;18337985]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buell78753 View Post
Hi, I'm a new XR650R owner and just getting up to speed on converting it to dual sport. Been reading the threads on this topic. With the new battery technology out now, is it possible to do a high out put stator set up, and run one of these?

[/QUOTE

How much power did you have in mind from the stator? 250W is typical. I know one guy using a Shorai in a supermoto XRR and seems to like it. Fairly expensive but good quality.
Most likely I will go with the well proven BD set up, with the dual out put stator, I think its 125W each. I would like to get as good, and reliable, electrical system as I can. I dont plan to run extra lights, but want good amount of power for an electric vest and GPS. I dont know the particulars, but I assume the BD 125 watt DC out put can go towards charging a small battery?
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:13 PM   #786
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[QUOTE=Buell78753;18341089]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildus View Post

Most likely I will go with the well proven BD set up, with the dual out put stator, I think its 125W each. I would like to get as good, and reliable, electrical system as I can. I dont plan to run extra lights, but want good amount of power for an electric vest and GPS. I dont know the particulars, but I assume the BD 125 watt DC out put can go towards charging a small battery?
I agree with you on the BD stator. It'd be my first choice.
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:55 AM   #787
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XR650R and battery

Thx for your helpful responses. If I go with the BD stator, and I have 125 watts DC I suppose this can get run into a regulator, then into a small battery? I understand for things like GPS you have to clean up the power source. A Tourmaster e-vest draws about 55 watts, so I should be OK. I assume that even without a battery you could run an e-vest, but the power would not be even, as the motor spins and DC output varies?

thanks!
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:18 PM   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buell78753 View Post
Thx for your helpful responses. If I go with the BD stator, and I have 125 watts DC I suppose this can get run into a regulator, then into a small battery? I understand for things like GPS you have to clean up the power source. A Tourmaster e-vest draws about 55 watts, so I should be OK. I assume that even without a battery you could run an e-vest, but the power would not be even, as the motor spins and DC output varies?

thanks!
The BD rewound stator has two legs that both put out 125w AC so you would need to run it through a regulator/rectifier to get DC.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:02 PM   #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buell78753 View Post
Thx for your helpful responses. If I go with the BD stator, and I have 125 watts DC I suppose this can get run into a regulator, then into a small battery? I understand for things like GPS you have to clean up the power source. A Tourmaster e-vest draws about 55 watts, so I should be OK. I assume that even without a battery you could run an e-vest, but the power would not be even, as the motor spins and DC output varies?

thanks!
Something else you may want to consider, and others are far more qualified than me to answer, but if you're not going to use alot of the power your super stator is going to make, then the stator will turn that extra power into heat in the stator, as I understand it. And the 650R stator is not bathed in oil, which makes it less capable of keeping cool in general. May or may not be a problem.

So the BD may work fine for you, or you may want to wind your own to give you closer to the power you'll use.

You can learn alot if you search for the thread "stators demystified". It's pretty confusing at first, but he shares a spreadsheet that it's pretty easy to add some cells to show you estimated wattage output by multiplying the amps output by 13V, depending on how you wind your stator.

I'm going through this right now, been figuring it out for a couple of weeks. I bought a spare stator on ebay, so I'll still have the stock one in case I screw it up. But basically I made a list of everything I want to power, totalled them up and using his spreadsheet which I added a few features to, makes it very easy to experiment with winding configurations to get the approximate output I'll need at what rpms are important to me, while not making a ton of extra juice that might overheat the stator.

On the other hand, if you're going to take BD's recommendation and run a second 100w headlight by A/C, their setup is likely a good fit for you.

As I mentioned, I'm no expert, just someone who has been studying it for a couple of weeks or so.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:07 PM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buell78753 View Post
Thx for your helpful responses. If I go with the BD stator, and I have 125 watts DC I suppose this can get run into a regulator, then into a small battery? I understand for things like GPS you have to clean up the power source. A Tourmaster e-vest draws about 55 watts, so I should be OK. I assume that even without a battery you could run an e-vest, but the power would not be even, as the motor spins and DC output varies?

thanks!
Yeah, that's how I'd do it: BD stator with 2 125w outputs (these will be AC), Ricky Stator regulator/rectifier - good for 250w, and a small (1.2 ah works great for me) battery. The battery does smooth out the power and help protect your electronics. The R/R will put out approx 12-14 volts, depending on engine speed. I run one 125w output through my AC regulator to power my headlights and misc. AC stuff and the other 125w output to a Ricky Stator R/R and battery for DC stuff, including a GPS.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:30 PM   #791
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Originally Posted by XRx View Post
Something else you may want to consider, and others are far more qualified than me to answer, but if you're not going to use alot of the power your super stator is going to make, then the stator will turn that extra power into heat in the stator, as I understand it. And the 650R stator is not bathed in oil, which makes it less capable of keeping cool in general. May or may not be a problem.

So the BD may work fine for you, or you may want to wind your own to give you closer to the power you'll use.

You can learn alot if you search for the thread "stators demystified". It's pretty confusing at first, but he shares a spreadsheet that it's pretty easy to add some cells to show you estimated wattage output by multiplying the amps output by 13V, depending on how you wind your stator.

I'm going through this right now, been figuring it out for a couple of weeks. I bought a spare stator on ebay, so I'll still have the stock one in case I screw it up. But basically I made a list of everything I want to power, totalled them up and using his spreadsheet which I added a few features to, makes it very easy to experiment with winding configurations to get the approximate output I'll need at what rpms are important to me, while not making a ton of extra juice that might overheat the stator.

On the other hand, if you're going to take BD's recommendation and run a second 100w headlight by A/C, their setup is likely a good fit for you.

As I mentioned, I'm no expert, just someone who has been studying it for a couple of weeks or so.
Don't know if XRider is still working on bikes anymore, but I know he setup a lot of electrical systems and was familiar with all the various stators, regulators, etc., and possible combinations. If I recall correctly, he thought that of all the commercial stators wound for the XRR, BD's was the most reliable (interesting, as it's the most powerful). He also observed that a lot of hand-wound stators failed. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think we need to be concerned about heat generated in the dual 125 watt output stator model (like BD's), based on the design calculations I've seen for stator wire gauge and wind counts.

Gildus screwed with this post 04-01-2012 at 03:46 PM
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #792
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Originally Posted by Gildus View Post
Don't know if XRider is still working on bikes anymore, but I know he setup a lot of electrical systems and was familiar with all the various stators, regulators, etc., and possible combinations. If I recall correctly, he thought that of all the commercial stators wound for the XRR, BD's was the most reliable (interesting, as it's the most powerful). He also observed that a lot of hand-wound stators failed. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think we need to be concerned about heat generated in the dual 125 watt output stator model (like BD's), based on the design calculations I've seen for stator wire gauge and wind counts.
I don't disagree. On one point though, in talking with Luke (stators demystified), he suggested I don't use 20AWG wire, so that tells me that at least in his mind (electrical engineer) that there is a limit to the heat/power that the copper in the stator windings can handle without being burned out.

I'm not saying at all don't buy the BD stator, just giving food for thought
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:11 PM   #793
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Originally Posted by XRx View Post
I don't disagree. On one point though, in talking with Luke (stators demystified), he suggested I don't use 20AWG wire, so that tells me that at least in his mind (electrical engineer) that there is a limit to the heat/power that the copper in the stator windings can handle without being burned out.

I'm not saying at all don't buy the BD stator, just giving food for thought
Yeah, there's a lot of great info in that thread. Pretty impressive. For sure, heat dissipation calculations can be complex and it rarely hurts to overbuild, especially when you don't have the option to test extensively. In this case, however, it seems reasonable to say that the BD stator has proven itself over time, and that we don't have to worry that the safety thresholds in the calculations were insufficient. Of course if you are hand winding your own stator to BD's design, then you introduce variables like types and thickness of resin, etc., that might make you want to be more conservative. Like you say, just food for thought.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:25 PM   #794
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Originally Posted by Gildus View Post
Yeah, there's a lot of great info in that thread. Pretty impressive. For sure, heat dissipation calculations can be complex and it rarely hurts to overbuild, especially when you don't have the option to test extensively. In this case, however, it seems reasonable to say that the BD stator has proven itself over time, and that we don't have to worry that the safety thresholds in the calculations were insufficient. Of course if you are hand winding your own stator to BD's design, then you introduce variables like types and thickness of resin, etc., that might make you want to be more conservative. Like you say, just food for thought.
I think one of the biggest variables would be the amount of unused power shunted back to the stator. Like I said, if you are using most of the power, likely no problem. But if you were running a 35w headlight and put a 250w stator on so you could run an electric vest once in a while, then you are racing around at high revs all the time while rarely using the vest in hundred degree weather in a low gear (hotter engine), then this would be a worst case scenario that I'm suggesting he might want to avoid by maybe winding a stator more suited to his use.

Not taking anything away from the BD stator, just saying it's not magic, it has to use the same physics as all others, and has a breaking point (which none of us know exactly where that is).
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:05 PM   #795
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Stator outputs

Thanks for the very good info and perspective. I did not know (yet) that the BRP stator does not run in oil, which would help cool it. Very good points to not over do it on the stator output, and try to actually use what the stator puts out, rather than generate more heat which is not good for anything....(Ask a Buell 1125 owner!) I can inquire with other owners about their set ups and see if any reliability issues come up with higher out put stators.

Typically I do one big dual sport ride a year, say 8 days or so, where I may need an electric vest. Also, in Texas the springs and winters can be cold enough to need a vest for 3-5 day rides to Big Bend. Fortunately in Texas we dont need e-vests much....but its nice to have on longer rides in colder states.

But, safest thing for me to do is to run just the min to get my bike plated and legal. From there, I will research more, and see about need for higher output stator. Ultimately I would like to have enough juice, and reliability, to run a higher watt head light, gps, and electric vest.

Thanks for the very helpful responses. I know all of this is buried in the thread, but its hard to sift through 100s of postings!
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