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Old 05-13-2012, 09:02 AM   #916
crypto666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyGuy View Post
Evolving Battery setup
A better mouse trap?
I took battery holders 4 of and epoxy them into a cube

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/3-7v-1-...h-leads-100999

Here it is wired up with gorilla tape surrounding it and a deans connector.


Location still works in airbox intake



Easy battery access



The Cells are a Lithium ion type they are well suited for the kick start application they have a higher capacity and will charge at A faster
rate than lifepo technology of similar size but will not put out the higher short term current of lifepo
Lifepo batteries are typically rated for the starter current of a electric stat bike hence are larger by design
Lifepo cell can be used in the same holder seen above but I found them to slow to charge for this 18650 size

Anyway this is my minimalist setup and keeping the bike on a weight diet at the same time
Dude, thanks for saving me from having to post pics of my setup; it is pretty much identical, except I have two cells just above the airbox, and two under the seat.

I see a deans connector in there too, you must also do some RC stuff.

Rather than use a battery holder, I bought cells with solder tabs and just hard wired them, insulated and shrink wrapped.

Here is the deal with those Li-ion though. The LiPo chemistry isn't as durable as the LiFe. For me, charge/discharge rates aren't the issue, and in fact LiPo has higher C-ratings than LiFe chemistry. What is important is that they: 1. do no explode or burst into flames (LiPo does this on occasion) 2. can handle complete discharge when my idiot self forgets to turn the light off. (LiPo does not tolerate this at all) 3. Can handle occasional rapid or over charge conditions, this is what causes LiPo to explode, burn, and turn vehicles into puddles.

So far the A123 systems 18650 LiFe cells are holding up for over a year now (3000+ off-road miles), with several complete discharges and some hard days of eating all of the system voltage while running without a light. I tried the cheaper chinese knock-offs and they lasted all of about 8 hours of riding.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:00 AM   #917
RideFreak
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[QUOTE=jm-2008;18672742]
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post
I used to run a cap with the RS heavy duty R/R, but I found that the R/R was somehow letting the cap charge to 16+V, which would then raise hell with my HID. IF it wasn't for the HID,


Crypto
Caps will usually charge to the available peak voltage
If it was running up to 16v i'd suspect the RR was passing some ripple down the line and the cap stored to the ripple peak
Thats been my experience with full wave/bridge rectifiers and cap filtered power supplies
May be an indication something else is going on
Do you have access to a (correction -not RMS) peak voltage meter or a CRO? That may show up any 16v peaks or ripple

Hope this doesn't add confusion

RF (Chris) may be able to confirm if this applies to our stator style electricals
Since I'm lazy, I'd just check it out with an o-scope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post

So far the A123 systems 18650 LiFe cells are holding up for over a year now (3000+ off-road miles), with several complete discharges and some hard days of eating all of the system voltage while running without a light. I tried the cheaper chinese knock-offs and they lasted all of about 8 hours of riding.
Any idea how they act thermally as they cycle (charge/discharge)? Asking about the thermal properties b/c I'd want to encapsulate the 2 cells into a custom shaped unit that fit a predetermined location, seen many of the homebuilt packs (and custom purchased packs) fail which is my main issue with constructing a batt system.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #918
crypto666
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[QUOTE=RideFreak;18677009]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm-2008 View Post

Since I'm lazy, I'd just check it out with an o-scope.



Any idea how they act thermally as they cycle (charge/discharge)? Asking about the thermal properties b/c I'd want to encapsulate the 2 cells into a custom shaped unit that fit a predetermined location, seen many of the homebuilt packs (and custom purchased packs) fail which is my main issue with constructing a batt system.
O-scope=nerd. Actually I wish I had one, but I don't. However, It was pretty obvious as to what was going on.


Thermally the LiFe are better than most. To keep them cool I mounted them where there is some airflow and the cells are wrapped in some fire resistant stuffing before shrink wrapping that allows ventilation and protection from vibration.

Fyi, the 1.1Ah will run my 55w HID for a little over 5 minutes without the motor running.
The only issue is when running extended periods without the HID on, the batteries charge to a voltage that makes it hard to ignite the HID and I have to let the motor wind down an idle before it will stay lit, but I think that is more of a ballast issue than anything.

crypto666 screwed with this post 05-13-2012 at 11:24 AM
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:46 PM   #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post
Dude, thanks for saving me from having to post pics of my setup; it is pretty much identical, except I have two cells just above the airbox, and two under the seat.

I see a deans connector in there too, you must also do some RC stuff.

Rather than use a battery holder, I bought cells with solder tabs and just hard wired them, insulated and shrink wrapped.

Here is the deal with those Li-ion though. The LiPo chemistry isn't as durable as the LiFe. For me, charge/discharge rates aren't the issue, and in fact LiPo has higher C-ratings than LiFe chemistry. What is important is that they: 1. do no explode or burst into flames (LiPo does this on occasion) 2. can handle complete discharge when my idiot self forgets to turn the light off. (LiPo does not tolerate this at all) 3. Can handle occasional rapid or over charge conditions, this is what causes LiPo to explode, burn, and turn vehicles into puddles.

So far the A123 systems 18650 LiFe cells are holding up for over a year now (3000+ off-road miles), with several complete discharges and some hard days of eating all of the system voltage while running without a light. I tried the cheaper chinese knock-offs and they lasted all of about 8 hours of riding.
Yes good info to know. I will have to give the LiFepo another Look as Lithium technology is moving fairly fast now. 1C charge was the limit a few years ago, A 3C would be just about right on a 1.1 Ah cell

One good thing is that protected Li-ion cells are easy to come by, and overcome the over under voltage issues, But I haven't found one yet that is durable enough to go hard offload yet (about as durable as a sealed lead acid)
Yes I have been into the Remote Control hobby and at a time when LiPo was first coming available. It was truly a revolutionary time when electric would go head to head with gas (I would never have believed it would have happened)

And for anyone doing there own wiring and modifying. I highly recommend the Deans connections on all battery, generator and headlamp connections
they make servicing easier and eliminate weak connection issues with stock connectors.

I have been using these with good results (Chinese knockoffs)

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/high-cu...pack-set-10788
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:58 PM   #920
SwampFox89
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Hey guys,

I have been reading through this thread and I am having a hell of a time figuring out the wiring for my pig. I had a BD dual sport kit and a stock stator. I then put the Le Paz 8 in light on the front and got a my stator rewound by BD. It was a dual out put. The bike runs, but I have no lights or anything else at all.

I am not sure what I am doing wrong, here are the pictures of what my wiring looks like under the seat.

Here is the AC reg and two wires that go into the BD harness.



Here is what my stator wires look like

The ones connected are factory connections, then there are two white, one white/yellow and a green



Lastly, here is the other wires. A green, white/yellow and two wires the previous owner had taped up before I messed with anything.

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Old 05-15-2012, 10:18 AM   #921
FlyGuy
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[QUOTE=SwampFox89;18689341]Hey guys,

I have been reading through this thread and I am having a hell of a time figuring out the wiring for my pig. I had a BD dual sport kit and a stock stator. I then put the Le Paz 8 in light on the front and got a my stator rewound by BD. It was a dual out put. The bike runs, but I have no lights or anything else at all.

I am not sure what I am doing wrong, here are the pictures of what my wiring looks like under the seat.

From the BD website, if you purchased there products I would first try them for customer service.
But if unable to get info from them someone here might know? Your question is a bit vague to me.

http://www.bajadesigns.com/docs/tech...-sport-kit.pdf
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:49 PM   #922
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Well I went through the wiring and hooked it up as the BD paper said. Nothing still works. The bike runs fine, as it should, but nothing else has power. I tested the leads going into the battery, and there is only 1-2 Volts DC reading off those leads. The battery is dead at the moment, but it has been before and everything worked on the bike. I'm just at a dead end with the bike. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:14 AM   #923
crypto666
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Originally Posted by SwampFox89 View Post
Well I went through the wiring and hooked it up as the BD paper said. Nothing still works. The bike runs fine, as it should, but nothing else has power. I tested the leads going into the battery, and there is only 1-2 Volts DC reading off those leads. The battery is dead at the moment, but it has been before and everything worked on the bike. I'm just at a dead end with the bike. Any advice would be appreciated.
Oooh, ooooh, I think I know what your problem is. Check for grounding. If your lights are not isolated from grounding to the frame, that may be your problem. You need floating grounds.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:52 AM   #924
mariner76e
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I have a 2001 XR650r with an older BD DSK. The negative is grounded to the frame( has a battery pack). I'm adding a RS with dual output split between AC and DC. I have the RS AC Regulator with Eastern Beaver wiring harness with relays for my headlight. So my question is must the AC side be grounded to the frame also? Should the AC or DC have a floating ground? This BD wiring diagram shows both AC/DC grounded to frame. This is my confusion.

http://www.bajadesigns.com/docs/tech...-sport-kit.pdf
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:53 PM   #925
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AC/DC, to ground or not.

I have a 2001 XR650R with an older BD DSK. It has the battery pack and is grounded to the frame. Now I'm installing a RS dual output and will have the headlight powered off the 100watt AC thru a RS AC Regulator. The BD diagram, http://www.bajadesigns.com/docs/tech...-sport-kit.pdf , shows both the AC and DC grounded. Should it be done this way? Or DC grounded and AC floated ground? Or both floated ground? My 2005 VStrom 1000 says not to ground to frame to avoid electrolysis. So what to do with the XR650r? To ground or not to ground, that is the question.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:22 PM   #926
crypto666
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Originally Posted by mariner76e View Post
I have a 2001 XR650R with an older BD DSK. It has the battery pack and is grounded to the frame. Now I'm installing a RS dual output and will have the headlight powered off the 100watt AC thru a RS AC Regulator. The BD diagram, http://www.bajadesigns.com/docs/tech...-sport-kit.pdf , shows both the AC and DC grounded. Should it be done this way? Or DC grounded and AC floated ground? Or both floated ground? My 2005 VStrom 1000 says not to ground to frame to avoid electrolysis. So what to do with the XR650r? To ground or not to ground, that is the question.
From my experience, the ac system definently needs floating ground. I also use a floater on my dc side, but I have seen some who have successfully frame grounded the dc. I had issues when I tried frame grounding, so I abandoned that idea, and haven't bothered to figure it out. My system has been working flawless for a few years now, with minor improvements along the way, so I leave it alone.

I am not sure why bd would show both ac and dc grounded. Electrically this isn't germane.

crypto666 screwed with this post 05-17-2012 at 01:30 PM
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:30 PM   #927
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From my experience, the ac system definently needs floating ground. I also use a floater on my dc side, but I have seen some who have successfully frame grounded the dc. I had issues when I tried frame grounding, so I abandoned that idea, and haven't bothered to figure it out. My system has been working flawless for a few years now, with minor improvements along the way, so I leave it alone.
What kind of problems did you have with the AC grounded to the frame? I've got my battery DC side with a floating ground.
The AC headlight, tailight, and ignition coil are grounded to the frame.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:56 PM   #928
crypto666
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What kind of problems did you have with the AC grounded to the frame? I've got my battery DC side with a floating ground.
The AC headlight, tailight, and ignition coil are grounded to the frame.
Well, it was about 6 years ago when I first installed the rs stator and dual headlights, so my memory is faded. But I know when I first hooked up the system i was all AC, both coils driving headlights. Everything was fine at first because the piaa lights were electrically isolated, but then I lost a plastic piece that insulated a screw and caused the light to ground, which pulled a lot of current and dimmed the lights significantly.

The only thing I can think of, is that perhaps I have simply reversed the coil leads, but I followed the rs stator instructions, so who knows. It would be hard to mess up green to green, yellow to yellow, but it isn't beyond me. Reversing ac leads shouldn't make any difference.


I may be mistaken, and it is the ac side, not dc side that can be grounded.
I know burpsa has some advice on this. Hopefully he chimes in.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:16 PM   #929
SwampFox89
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Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post
Oooh, ooooh, I think I know what your problem is. Check for grounding. If your lights are not isolated from grounding to the frame, that may be your problem. You need floating grounds.
Well I made sure I had everything hooked up under the seat correctly according to the BD schematics. At this point I have 14V DC coming out of the BD reg/rec. The blue wire coming from the reg/rec has 14V DC until you plug it into the harness that goes to the BD handle bar switch. It then goes to 1V DC. I don't think my switch is bad, I took it apart and there is no corrosion on the slider contacts. I put some WD40 on it to be safe. The slider works to kill the bike and the kill switch kills the bike.

What could be causing the drop from 14V to 1V when I connect the harnesses?
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:44 PM   #930
RideFreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampFox89 View Post
Well I made sure I had everything hooked up under the seat correctly according to the BD schematics. At this point I have 14V DC coming out of the BD reg/rec. The blue wire coming from the reg/rec has 14V DC until you plug it into the harness that goes to the BD handle bar switch. It then goes to 1V DC. I don't think my switch is bad, I took it apart and there is no corrosion on the slider contacts. I put some WD40 on it to be safe. The slider works to kill the bike and the kill switch kills the bike.

What could be causing the drop from 14V to 1V when I connect the harnesses?
A short! You need to break out a meter and check for continunity to ground from that blue wire.
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