Alternative fuel pumps for FI KTM990

[Autostream]

Originally Posted by shawty950

...If you can give me your thoughts....this may explain some of the issues of cavitation/starvation when it's cold (as opposed being heat induced)
...cold fuel more dense thru clogged filter = restriction...water swelling the pleats of the filter...

The cavitation track I was heading down related to intake restriction being the cause of the cavitation, the paper filter is on the pressure side, while it is a restriction in its own right, it will not cause cavitation.

[ridewestKTM]

I jumped a bit ahead - so forgive me if it's been said. I had a fuel starvation issue on my car and every time I stoped and restarted it was fine. After a few miles it would starve out again. Did this for 100 mi. What it was was a very fine (powder sized) particulate that would clog the filter, then when I stopped it would fall off the filter. I took the tank out and emptied the fuel into a garbage can. At first it looked fine, but closer inspection I could see the powder (I believe it was rust). Put in new fuel and was fine for several years. It did it again later. But in both cases I remember filling when the delivery truck was there.

Great work on the replacement pump research.

[PowerCell]

Originally Posted by ridewestKTM

I jumped a bit ahead - so forgive me if it's been said. I had a fuel starvation issue on my car and every time I stoped and restarted it was fine. After a few miles it would starve out again. Did this for 100 mi. What it was was a very fine (powder sized) particulate that would clog the filter, then when I stopped it would fall off the filter. I took the tank out and emptied the fuel into a garbage can. At first it looked fine, but closer inspection I could see the powder (I believe it was rust). Put in new fuel and was fine for several years. It did it again later. But in both cases I remember filling when the delivery truck was there.

Great work on the replacement pump research.

Sounds like the ol' "sugar in the tank" trick...

[sp4ce]

Originally Posted by shawty950

I've had a rethink of this...and basically going to try this:-

- Get a car efi fuel filter...1980's Nissan Skyline...Ryco Part number Z200 or Z387
eg. http://www.rycofilters.com.au/catalo...line/part/Z387
- Remove oem FPR.
- Cut off top of plastic that houses the fpr/paper filter.
- barbed fitting screwed into high pres gallery from pump...then mount car filter..short hose with T piece.
One - goes down to barbed fitting screwed into plastic base that o-rings to outlet brass tube
Other goes to OEM FPR mounted via high pressure fuel line with hose clamps.

I have seen other motos with similar arrangements as stock (R1100GS). You will want to fabricate some kind of mounting plate so the filter and FPR are secured/supported and don't stress the hose connections.

Originally Posted by shawty950

find a filter to replace the OEM one...as long as the id and od are close...it can be longer as their is a bit of clearance with the spring compressed a bit....

The problem here is going to be the off-center inlet hole. I haven't seen other filters like that, but I haven't looked too hard. Another possibility would be to cannibalize the paper element out of another filter and glue it into the metal end caps from your existing filter. Just have to figure out the correct adhesive to use then, right?

Here's a link from another thread that might have parts that will help or provide information/inspiration: http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/filters.pdf


Good luck and keep us posted. Respect for actually trying something.

[shawty950]

Hey Sp4ce,

here's what I ended up doing

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492100

Sitting down friday night and then shopping around on Sat...there was a lot of work basically redesigning the top of the fuel pump that houses the small filter, fpr and outlet gallery for the TB's. And as you correctly pointed out, many brackets to hold it all together under pressure for no that much gain..imo.

Only issue, with the way I ended up going, is that how I did the post pump cannibalized paper filter...i did cut it so that the clearance was 0 (to the roof of chamber) so the filter couldn't raise off the outlet(offcentre hole) but there is a possibility of the bottom of the pleats flaring under pressure...oh well...will take it apart after the weekend and see how it handles the run. another 3 days of riding to work(320k's) then another 1000 over 2 days this weekend. So will be able to see how it's going by the end.

Worst comes to worst I'll just remove the paper filter and rely on the inline filter above airbox. fpr shouldn't have an issue.

On another note re everyone's failed pumps...did any of you notice the condition of each of the filters?

Could it be that the post pump paper filter IS the problem if it gets clogged with either water, dirt OR both? And that it may not be the pump or the sock filter? Just throwing it out there....

Shawty

[the foolish fellow]

What Does Mounting The Pump Externally Do To The Fuel Capacity ?

[gefr]

Originally Posted by PowerCell

Sounds like the ol' "sugar in the tank" trick...

Sugar desolves in the fuel, but when in the piston, melts as caramel, glueing the piston and seizing the engine. This is a disasterous sabotage.

[crashmaster]

Originally Posted by the foolish fellow

What Does Mounting The Pump Externally Do To The Fuel Capacity ?

gives you abot 5 more km's of range.......

[cjracer]

I'm going to try and make 2 more of these blank of plate I use on my Aqualine tanks for testing. If anyone is interested in one let me know. If I put a standard pipe tap threads in for a barb fitting that would be the easiest.

Let me know, I'll see if I can dig up some material. If I ever get a 990 I'd want the pump and prefilter setup "outside" the tank.

[Yzlvr]

I would take one.

[cjracer]

Originally Posted by Yzlvr

I would take one.

Ok, I guess I've got 2 takers already.

When you get it, you need to use it for something or pass it on to someone that will.

I'm going to try and get 2 made up in time for the ID KTM Rally. If you'll be there I'll give it to you then. Otherwise I'll send it to you when I get home.

What Size NPT thread would work the best. What kind of fittings are you going to use? Post up some pics.

[mud master]

Hi Everyone, My Friend On A 650 Vstrom Had Similar Fuel Issues As You Are Explaining, The Bike Would Run 20 Min. And Then It Wouldn't Have Enough Power To Maintain Highway Speeds. I Traced This Problem To Alcohol Enriched Fuel. (natures Friendly Fuel, Not) When We Run Any Other Fuel Without Alcohol The Bike Has No Problems, I Feel The Alcohol Evaporates Too Fast Within The Pump And Then Causes An Air Lock, When You Turn The Engine Off, It Clears And Then It Takes About 20 Minutes For It To Build Up Again. Try Running Non Alcohol Fuels In Your Bikes And See If The Problem Goes Away. Good Luck.

[PowerCell]

I ordered one of these last night to try on my SE950R fuel injection conversion. I'll let everyone know how it holds up...






Also got one of these to handle the fuel pressure and allow overage to return to the tank...

[Head2Wind]

Originally Posted by mud master

Hi Everyone, My Friend On A 650 Vstrom Had Similar Fuel Issues As You Are Explaining, The Bike Would Run 20 Min. And Then It Wouldn't Have Enough Power To Maintain Highway Speeds. I Traced This Problem To Alcohol Enriched Fuel. (natures Friendly Fuel, Not) When We Run Any Other Fuel Without Alcohol The Bike Has No Problems, I Feel The Alcohol Evaporates Too Fast Within The Pump And Then Causes An Air Lock, When You Turn The Engine Off, It Clears And Then It Takes About 20 Minutes For It To Build Up Again. Try Running Non Alcohol Fuels In Your Bikes And See If The Problem Goes Away. Good Luck.

try finding non alcohol fuels and get back to us.... almost impossible any more, at least around these parts it is. also, if you have alcohol vapor in the pump then you will have other issues! Alcohol (while under normal pressures) goes to vapor at about 78C, if the pump/fuel is that hot then I think that there are other problems brewing.

EDIT: additional considerations: the system pressure at the veins of the pump is going to be 15-45 psi so this will also increase the "boiling point" of the Alcohol well beyond the "normal pressures" boiling point of ~180F.

[tahoeacr]

Powercell,
I hope it works better for you than I. Nothing but crap from Aeromotive. Couldn't get there pumps to last even a month. Good thing is if you ordered it from Summit or Jegs, they will take it back when it goes South.