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Old 10-24-2012, 04:06 PM   #781
Foot dragger
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Originally Posted by wiggywildwildwest View Post
so the shifter is ok. looks like it's time to split the cases. goddammit.
Usually theres some shifting linkage outside of the center cases,I would check that out in detail before I dove in too deep. Sometimes its just a spring or loose screw,you never know.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:36 PM   #782
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Originally Posted by wiggywildwildwest View Post
so the shifter is ok. looks like it's time to split the cases. goddammit.
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Usually theres some shifting linkage outside of the center cases,I would check that out in detail before I dove in too deep. Sometimes its just a spring or loose screw,you never know.
I think #23, 24, and 25 are outside the cases.

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Old 10-30-2012, 01:16 AM   #783
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
According to Mel Harris, CEO, American Suzuki : "Suzuki have too much on their plate." This response given (face to face, in person) in 2007 when Suzuki was still in Moto GP and the Burgman Scooter was BIG on their agenda. American Suzuki insiders claimed it to be the 2nd coming!
(I tried to tell them! )
Seems they forgot about the dozens of cheap Chinese scooters flooding the market ... and selling like hotcakes at 80% less than their beloved Burgman.
Its cool you got to talk to him. I do understand they have other things they are contending with, but this is a dealbreaker for the DR and dangerous. We disagree here and I can respect that..

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All good and fair points. I'm not a Japanese expert, but I worked for one!
But back to reality for a minute: To Suzuki, the DR650 is NOT their most important product. There is no "team" following this model. When Mel Harris was informed of the issues, he responded (see above). Then followed with the comment : "DR650 sales have doubled and are consistently higher than they've EVER BEEN.". I responded saying then that's all the more reason to fix the issues! Silence. (He IS the CEO, and one doesn't get too snippy with the guy)
See, there you go! Its great you got to mention that, however it doesnt seem like anything came of it (not your fault of course). It isnt there most important money maker- and thats why they leave it to blow up and potentially kill someone- no money in it.

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Still, its a danger .... and the idea proposed of opening a case at NHTSA is not a bad one. Once Federal pressure is applied and a RECALL issued, we would have a fix ... and a recall for all existing bikes to get a FREE upgrade as well. Get a petition going! I'll sign it!
+1. Ive never done a petition before, so I will look into it. I do wish someone with more knowledge of gearboxes could start one or clearly write out the text for the petition. I will need to do much more research, posts in DRRIDERS, etc. You dont throw together a 5 minute paragraph for something like this.


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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Once again, good and reasonable requests. These issues on the DR seem to have slipped through the cracks.
I have some idea how corporations work.
I believe there may be some internal corporate cultural wrangling going on at Suzuki (as well as many other companies). Some propose profit and dominance, even risking everything to get there. Others are more moderate and feel they have to clean up dirty loose ends as they go and feel more obligation to stay with a product even through its later years.
Which way they go is the question.
Good points. I dont think everyone in Suzuki is "fuck um.. costs too much- let em blow up or kill the rider, who cares? Poor bastards with no money anyways.." But I do think those with power in Suzuki think that way Otherwise, a fix would have at least been attempted.

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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
But sometimes even law suits won't solve the problem. BMW was sued in Germany regards the F650 forks breaking off. They lost and paid out to the Plaintiff. BUT no recall was issued, far as I know. I believe the NHTSA has a case on this in the USA, but no recall. And guess what? A new G650 (new model) broke its forks off recently. Same Showa forks! Anyone can tell just by looking that the forks are under spec'd for the weight/size of the bike.
Yup. Thats the reality in a world by profit, for profit. Outside of yourself (if you are a corporation), people are merely monkeys you train to buy your shit and to not complain when it doesnt work as advertised.

I think we mostly agree here. The thing is, I have a real problem with the fact this problem is DANGEROUS. Blowing an engine due to a problem- ANY problem that is more than a fluke which this is not- on a motorcycle is dangerous. It irks me and infuriates me to my very core that they simply refuse to do anything about it. Corporations will walk on people until those people hit them where they hurt most- their bottom line. I can bet if NO DR650s were bought next year and everyone simply said "Fix 3rd gear or fuck you", Suzuki would probably at least TRY a fix. This is part of the reason I frankly wish I had a WR250R- despite its problems and being a different type of ADV bike, it has no overwhelmingly dangerous problems. I contributed to the problem by buying a DR and supporting the whole aftermarket ecosystem and resale value of the bike- I contributed to a corporation laughing all the way to the bank.

To each his own I guess...
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:24 AM   #784
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http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ntarctic-65500

Heres a link (there is a corresponding one in our Ride Reports section, but this one is more condensed) where a brand new 2012 DR650 less than 3 months old has had to have 3rd gear worked on TWICE. TWICE. This isnt a blowup because he didnt let it go too far, but notice (page 5 post #67) how the gear turned blue from heat. He also reported the whining getting louder and louder, etc. 11000 miles.

Not much info on the second time into the shop, but its related to third gear (last page; page 8).

My bike is an 08 with 6700 miles. If this happens to me next year on my AK trip, my trip is over. For us poor folk, thats a hell of a chance to take with lifelong memories. Just sayin..
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:47 AM   #785
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Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
Not much info on the second time into the shop, but its related to third gear (last page; page 8).
The mechanic didn't line up some oil galleries properly...

The cases on both bikes were replaced under warranty because of the countershaft seal issues...
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:50 AM   #786
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This is part of the reason I frankly wish I had a WR250R- despite its problems and being a different type of ADV bike, it has no overwhelmingly dangerous problems.
I wish I had one too. Just have to make do with it's grandad - TT350.

Makes a great partner for the DR650.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:40 AM   #787
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The mechanic didn't line up some oil galleries properly...

The cases on both bikes were replaced under warranty because of the countershaft seal issues...
Im guessing this info is in the thread here- ill have to go take a look. The first time was indeed a normal third gear (almost) failure, right?

If memory serves me correctly, the manual calls for lining up a certain oil part on assembly, but then nothing holds the item in place and it has been considered that this could lead to the problem (much as it did with the bike in the thread I quoted). Is it the same oil gallery you mention here?

Agree about making a great partner bike. Ive considered getting a WR250R for Alaska and keeping the DR for a trip to South America. Seeing these third gear issues does make me nervous though- a guy had third go in South America if I remember correctly.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:22 AM   #788
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while this blow-up thing is certainly a total drag for those it happens to, i have yet to see even a single report where it actually leads to a situation that is dangerous, any more than having any malfunction on a bike can be dangerous. there is nothing in this failure mode that will put anyone in any danger solely related to the failure itself, imo. i haven't heard of a single incident where the wheel locked up, causing a rider to go down, etc... if here were, i suspect suzuki may have responded differently to the issue.

doug s.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:36 AM   #789
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Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
while this blow-up thing is certainly a total drag for those it happens to, i have yet to see even a single report where it actually leads to a situation that is dangerous, any more than having any malfunction on a bike can be dangerous. there is nothing in this failure mode that will put anyone in any danger solely related to the failure itself, imo. i haven't heard of a single incident where the wheel locked up, causing a rider to go down, etc... if here were, i suspect suzuki may have responded differently to the issue.

doug s.

That, and the frequency of failure is incredibly tiny.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:36 AM   #790
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Bluhduh

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Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
while this blow-up thing is certainly a total drag for those it happens to, i have yet to see even a single report where it actually leads to a situation that is dangerous, any more than having any malfunction on a bike can be dangerous. there is nothing in this failure mode that will put anyone in any danger solely related to the failure itself, imo. i haven't heard of a single incident where the wheel locked up, causing a rider to go down, etc... if here were, i suspect suzuki may have responded differently to the issue.

doug s.
Good point. Surely a sample size such as ADVrider perfectly proves that noone has died from a third gear failure. Lets just forget about this and when one of us dies the others can hang the corpse in front of Suzuki headquarters. /end sarcasm

Before you rip my head off, im just ribbing you- but the point remains. Why is it humans must so often wait on calamity to MOVE on fixing a problem? ANY problem that repeatedly blows an engine has a chance to lock the wheel. Any problem that repeatedly threatens to lock the wheel also presents a chance of loss of control. Such a loss could be the END of a rider. If it was a fluke, it would really suck, but things happen. When it is more than a fluke, it is not something to let go. A rear brake failure? Still have the front. Starter failure? Least you arent moving.

It had been awhile since I had been on this thread, and I realize looking back I said I would stop posting here since everyone thinks im insane about this. Im sorry- I forgot. I have said my piece and in reality I doubt anyone really cares.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:43 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
Seeing these third gear issues does make me nervous though- a guy had third go in South America if I remember correctly.
I think you may referring to the French guy who found a bit of gear in his oil. Turned out to be a bit of 3rd gear. His bike was still running fine, no damage done. He choose to tear into it and install new Suzuki parts.

He was in Oaxaca, Mexico, IIRC. He got the parts in about two weeks (IIRC). He had it fixed locally and rode on. So far, haven't heard any bad news ... so I'm guessing he's doing OK? Anyone else ever heard more from this guy? (now about 6 months back)

Lots and lots of DR650's have tackled South America ... and very few ever post here and very few ever have had catastrophic failures.

On my last Baja trip (down to La Paz) I ran into two German women on DR's, headed all the way down. Saw two other riders on DR's but didn't get to talk to them. They were Euros or Aussies I believe, fully loaded, headed South. All had California plates.

The common theme now is travelers come to California or other US state), buy a DR (or KLR) and ride South. For the Euros this saves about $2000 in shipping costs (even more from Oz) and avoids the major hassles of importing a bike. Dozens are doing this now every year. Lots aboard DR650's. Some have bad luck (like the Kiwi couple), most do just fine.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:41 PM   #792
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Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
Im guessing this info is in the thread here- ill have to go take a look. The first time was indeed a normal third gear (almost) failure, right?
The gear and some bearings were blue'ing which could indicate an oil gallery problem right from new...

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Old 10-31-2012, 08:11 AM   #793
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So if I am looking to buy a used dr soon, should I listen for a pronounced whine in 3rd gear? Is that the death cry for these things? Or have gears exploded with no prior whine?

I do know some of you have gone many miles on a whiny 3rd, but does that just mean you've gotten lucky and it is only a matter of time?
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:15 PM   #794
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So if I am looking to buy a used dr soon, should I listen for a pronounced whine in 3rd gear? Is that the death cry for these things? Or have gears exploded with no prior whine?

I do know some of you have gone many miles on a whiny 3rd, but does that just mean you've gotten lucky and it is only a matter of time?
There have been ones that blew with no whining or any kind of warning. There have been ones that blew that whined. The general consensus is as long as it shifts ok, buy it and ride it like you stole it. If it blows, tough shit- find another engine, or part out the bike and then buy another one. It probably wont happen to you, but if it does it will ruin your day.

I dont really like this attitude for reasons stated above, but nothing will ever come complaining about it since suzuki is still gonna make there money.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:18 PM   #795
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