ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-20-2013, 11:11 AM   #931
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farkles View Post
I am building out two DRs as travel bikes. Having followed this thread for some time, I decided to go ahead and install the Nova Racing third gear set one one of the bikes.

The engine went back in this past weekend. While I have fired her up, I have not yet gone for a test ride yet as winter road conditions don't permit.

The reason why I have chosen this route is because it makes sense to me. It was expensive and labour intensive -- on a scale of magnitude compared to fixing the NSU or Doo.

Having travelled to South America from Canada in the past on a KLR, I decided that I do not want the worry anxiety of what I believe to be a problem greater than a fluke but far, far less than endemic. That said, the vision of being stranded in Patagonia, with the months and months of planning and saving and upheaval, just doesn't sit well with me. I think that I would be more upset with myself for not trying to prevent an issue than still having issues knowing that I tried my best (by installing a yet unproven, untested "fix" to what many see as low risk of catastrophic failure issue).

Adam.
Good luck with the builds! Can you tell us the history of your bikes? I'm assuming you bought them used? Where did your two bikes come from and what was their previous use/abuse history? (if you know) Do you have a build thread or blog somewhere? link?

Keep in mind ... about 90% of ALL 3rd gear failures listed here are on Australian and New Zealand market bikes. Very few USA and Canada bikes.
I've no facts as to why this is ... but have a few theories ... already stated in this thread.

NOTE: "Fixing" the NSU is a simple, Do-It-Yourself fix, done in about an hour with some Red Loc-Tite. Done. NOW ... if you mean "fix" the NSU AFTER one of it's bolts has fallen into gear box? ... well THAT means (usually) a ruined motor and trans. So no real "FiX" possible there. But preventing it is simple.

I'm curious why you only rebuilt ONE of your two bikes? As you know, there is no evidence that the NOVA gears are better than stock Suzuki items ... or if weak gears are precisely the problem and cause the failure.

This issue is a bit of a mystery, the good news is ... it seems fairly rare.

I hope you have time to do a decent "shake down" run on your bikes before departure. Best get them sorted this side of the border. Do you plan to ride the entire way South? ... or shipping them to Buenos Aires or Chile ... then riding North?
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 01:00 PM   #932
Jammin
Living on a DR
 
Jammin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: New Delhi - new 'home' for post RTW
Oddometer: 1,525
Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
What happened to the 98 engine did it's 3rd fail?
Nope, but I added to the statistic that doug mentions below
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s.
for all anyone knows, installing these stronger 3rd gears may exacerbate some problem elsewhere in the transmission and cause a failure that otherwise would not have occurred
Before leaving on this RTW on my 98 engine, I decided best to rebuild the engine with the newer 3rd drive gear from Suzuki and keep at bay any fears about transmission blowing out in the middle of nowhere. Rebuild took months, waiting on the correct puller, and rebuild all went fine, assembled engine, ran great and started the trip. 3,000 miles later in California I'm spewing oil out the screw cap on the cam chain tensioner. I guess it wasn't put on properly. and then I stripped the threads on this little cap. When I got to SF, I removed the cam chain tensioner to clean out the threads and it wasn't bad and put the screw cap on properly but I had a major brain fart and forget to pull in the tensioner before assembling it back on the engine. 40 miles later, cam chain snapped and did whole lots of internal damage.

So, in the end, maybe if I had just not worried about this 3rd drive gear in my original engine, it might still be running Oh well, makes for a good story
__________________
J A Y on a 98 Suzuki DR650SE (sanDRina)

Trip Website: JamminGlobal.com
Current Ride Report: Global South | Past Trips: CDR '09, Alaska '08, Mexico '07 | YouTube Videos
Jammin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 01:34 PM   #933
FlowBee
Just me.
 
FlowBee's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Stasis.
Oddometer: 5,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
.... but I had a major brain fart and forget to pull in the tensioner before assembling it back on the engine. 40 miles later, cam chain snapped and did whole lots of internal damage.

So, in the end, maybe if I had just not worried about this 3rd drive gear in my original engine, it might still be running Oh well, makes for a good story
In engineering application support we call this an ID 10T error.

Those of us who have been following J's wonderful story know this was a "user-induced" error that J admits early on. Sometimes, even for a mechanical engineer, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Each farkle introduces a potential failure mode depending on how well it is executed. That's why many RTW riders recommend not modifying the basic drivetrain of an otherwise reliable bike unless you have time test it with many miles before leaving. Performance is not important on long journeys - reliability is.

Keep on truckin' J ! (how are you going to get to India ???)

FB
__________________
"And then this one time at banned camp ....."
FlowBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 04:33 PM   #934
Farkles
South America bound.
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: From Toronto, Canada. Presently in South America.
Oddometer: 53
The bikes are fairly low KM -- <5000 / <7000 or so and are 2010/2009. Both bikes were purchased from men in their late 50s/early 60s. One saw some dirt track, which were probably fairly mild given the region where the bike came from. The other was literally pampered. Neither show any signs of abuse. Both were purchased in Ontario, Canada.

I do not have any sort of thread/blog about the build yet. I have been attempting to take good photos to eventually document things once I find some time.

Only one bike has been done at this point but the intention is to do the other one once I am satisfied with the first. The trip is still months off so we will be testing things the best we can.

Actually I was hoping to get things sorted out *this* side of the border . Our general plan right now is ride to South America. At some point we will decide if we are going to continue on to Africa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Good luck with the builds! Can you tell us the history of your bikes? I'm assuming you bought them used? Where did your two bikes come from and what was their previous use/abuse history? (if you know) Do you have a build thread or blog somewhere? link?

Keep in mind ... about 90% of ALL 3rd gear failures listed here are on Australian and New Zealand market bikes. Very few USA and Canada bikes.
I've no facts as to why this is ... but have a few theories ... already stated in this thread.

NOTE: "Fixing" the NSU is a simple, Do-It-Yourself fix, done in about an hour with some Red Loc-Tite. Done. NOW ... if you mean "fix" the NSU AFTER one of it's bolts has fallen into gear box? ... well THAT means (usually) a ruined motor and trans. So no real "FiX" possible there. But preventing it is simple.

I'm curious why you only rebuilt ONE of your two bikes? As you know, there is no evidence that the NOVA gears are better than stock Suzuki items ... or if weak gears are precisely the problem and cause the failure.

This issue is a bit of a mystery, the good news is ... it seems fairly rare.

I hope you have time to do a decent "shake down" run on your bikes before departure. Best get them sorted this side of the border. Do you plan to ride the entire way South? ... or shipping them to Buenos Aires or Chile ... then riding North?
Farkles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 05:09 PM   #935
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farkles View Post
The bikes are fairly low KM -- <5000 / <7000 or so and are 2010/2009. Both bikes were purchased from men in their late 50s/early 60s. One saw some dirt track, which were probably fairly mild given the region where the bike came from. The other was literally pampered. Neither show any signs of abuse. Both were purchased in Ontario, Canada.

I do not have any sort of thread/blog about the build yet. I have been attempting to take good photos to eventually document things once I find some time.

Only one bike has been done at this point but the intention is to do the other one once I am satisfied with the first. The trip is still months off so we will be testing things the best we can.

Actually I was hoping to get things sorted out *this* side of the border . Our general plan right now is ride to South America. At some point we will decide if we are going to continue on to Africa.
Wow! ... sounds like a major Trip!
Yes .. "sorted" on the Canadian side of the border of course! But wait! Given DR parts prices in Canada (& riding gear) maybe you should plan to get whatever you need down here? The Cannucks on the big DR650 thread always complain about getting boned on DR parts prices. $$$$

The DR650 community is knowledgeable & helpful. Don't hesitate to reach out as you come South. If you need something, give a Shout Out on the big DR thread, or DRRiders forum. http://drriders.com/
or on your Ride Report.
Many have spare parts; tires/tubes, spare wheels, forks, bars, controls, chains, sprockets and TOOLS ... some even have KNOWLEDGE I have FOUR batteries ... and they ALL are good. Free to anyone passing through.

Between ADV DR650 riders, KLR guys and the gang over at Horizon's Unlimited you should have no problems with support.
Have fun setting the bike up ... keep it light!
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 07:57 PM   #936
doug s.
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: md
Oddometer: 1,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
.... but I had a major brain fart and forget to pull in the tensioner before assembling it back on the engine. 40 miles later, cam chain snapped and did whole lots of internal damage.

So, in the end, maybe if I had just not worried about this 3rd drive gear in my original engine, it might still be running Oh well, makes for a good story
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowBee View Post
In engineering application support we call this an ID 10T error.

Those of us who have been following J's wonderful story know this was a "user-induced" error that J admits early on. Sometimes, even for a mechanical engineer, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Each farkle introduces a potential failure mode depending on how well it is executed. That's why many RTW riders recommend not modifying the basic drivetrain of an otherwise reliable bike unless you have time test it with many miles before leaving. Performance is not important on long journeys - reliability is.

Keep on truckin' J ! (how are you going to get to India ???)

FB
i call that: "if it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is"! i have been there on more than one occasion, w/more than yust motorcycles.

doug s.
doug s. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 07:37 AM   #937
procycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
procycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Center of the DR650 universe
Oddometer: 2,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
So, in the end, maybe if I had just not worried about this 3rd drive gear in my original engine, it might still be running Oh well, makes for a good story
Jay's old engine has been pulling test mule duty in my DR for the last couple of years. 790, Big Valve Head, etc, etc.
__________________
Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
procycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 09:06 PM   #938
ER70S-2
Beastly Adventurer
 
ER70S-2's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: SE Denver-ish
Oddometer: 4,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
Would just like to chime in support of our beloved DR. I'm currently at 65,432 miles (105,137 kms) on a 2001 model engine in my 98 chassis pulling a fully loaded bike through Africa


Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Jay's old engine has been pulling test mule duty in my DR for the last couple of years. 790, Big Valve Head, etc, etc.


Holy Wowie, you guys rock!!


Mine's just a puppy at 44,118 miles.
__________________
2004 DR650: 59,658 miles
2013 WR250R

SUZUKI DR650SE INFORMATION INDEX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
ER70S-2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 04:19 AM   #939
pzs
Gnarly Adventurer
 
pzs's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Central Australia, desert dweller
Oddometer: 201
I would be interested to see if any of those blown 3rd gear problems were running any oil additives. I have always run Moreys or Lucas, Liqui Moly oil viscocity additives in all my bikes over the years, I don't no if it works or not, just a habit im in at oil change. I just do it for the extra clingyness on the gears, and no problems here touch wood, maybe works... maybe not?
Would be interested to know.
pzs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 07:09 AM   #940
bkoz
Gnarly Adventurer
 
bkoz's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: The Great White North
Oddometer: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by pzs View Post
I would be interested to see if any of those blown 3rd gear problems were running any oil additives. I have always run Moreys or Lucas, Liqui Moly oil viscocity additives in all my bikes over the years, I don't no if it works or not, just a habit im in at oil change. I just do it for the extra clingyness on the gears, and no problems here touch wood, maybe works... maybe not?
Would be interested to know.
I have mentioned before in this thread about being interested in what oils were being used and oil change intervals on the failed 3rd gears.

I wonder how much of a difference the oil formulations are between Oz/NZ and North America.

IMHO I am not a fan or a user of oil additives but I do invest in synthetic oils, especially with the DR tranny issues. And one of my other bikes is a KTM. It would become a smoking, molten heap of metal with out synthetic oil.

bkoz screwed with this post 02-24-2013 at 07:28 AM
bkoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 07:51 PM   #941
felixblack1
Gnarly Adventurer
 
felixblack1's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Australia, Sunshine Coast
Oddometer: 159
Here's my theory Oz Vs Yanks Re: DRs gearboxes exploding. Us Ozzies are out using our bikes rather then posting on here. And we actually use them off road. But as Ozzies we do like to have a whinge (passed down from the Poms) so we then jump on hear to vent our frustrations

felixblack1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 09:21 PM   #942
NordieBoy OP
Armature speller
 
NordieBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Kiwiland
Oddometer: 7,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by felixblack1 View Post
Here's my theory Oz Vs Yanks Re: DRs gearboxes exploding. Us Ozzies are out using our bikes rather then posting on here. And we actually use them off road. But as Ozzies we do like to have a whinge (passed down from the Poms) so we then jump on hear to vent our frustrations

I thought you were just a bunch of shandy drinking Trevs that liked winding people up.

NordieBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 07:18 AM   #943
bkoz
Gnarly Adventurer
 
bkoz's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: The Great White North
Oddometer: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by felixblack1 View Post
Here's my theory Oz Vs Yanks Re: DRs gearboxes exploding. Us Ozzies are out using our bikes rather then posting on here. And we actually use them off road. But as Ozzies we do like to have a whinge (passed down from the Poms) so we then jump on hear to vent our frustrations


Of course, you guys have a longer riding season. Still makes me think about oil quality, especially with your higher ambient temps. I wonder if any of the blown bottom end bikes had clogged or damaged oil coolers?

And I thought it was common knowledge that Aussies are just a bunch of south sea poms anyways?
bkoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #944
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by felixblack1 View Post
Here's my theory Oz Vs Yanks Re: DRs gearboxes exploding. Us Ozzies are out using our bikes rather then posting on here. And we actually use them off road. But as Ozzies we do like to have a whinge (passed down from the Poms) so we then jump on hear to vent our frustrations

Hey Felix,
Yea, I agree, you Aussies ride more off road than USA DR owners ... and probably have tougher terrain and do longer rides than the majority of USA riders.

But if you actually READ back, you'll see this theory has already been mentioned by me ... and others in this thread ages ago. So nothing new ... and actually a very distinct possibility for WHY OZ riders get most of the 3rd gear blow ups.

My personal theory is you get different bikes from different parts manufacturers.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 12:39 PM   #945
ScottDill
TANSTAAFL
 
ScottDill's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario
Oddometer: 4,016
Don't forget, Australia is in the southern hemisphere. I doubt that these transmissions were designed to run upside down like that for extended periods.



ScottDill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014