Gentlemen, remove your plumbing!!

Katoum · 05-20-2004, 04:45 PM

While, its all old news now but I thought I would post a picture of just what comes off after a total SASectomy and Canisteronomy. Total weight reduction by goverment approved postage machine was 1342 gram reduction. This combined with carb needle raised, and fuel screws at 21/2 turns has for me IMHO totally transformed the way the 950 performs. There is no more sudden die syndrome after parked hot for a period, no more surging at steady throttle around 3500-4000 RPM and starts first time every time hot or cold. There's been a lot of discussion on how all these systems interact and what cause's what, but is no denying the fact it plain kicks ass with all the shit removed. As a side benefit with the Akro's it used to sound kind of like a H-D popping on deceleration, now mine is totally pop free and has taken on more of a Ducati sound, I like it.
PS I picked up extra Blanking Plates today so if you need some please read the post by doing a search on Blanking Plates.
Cheers,
Katoum

motozilla · 05-20-2004, 04:55 PM

What are these things circled??? I don't recall them when I did my canister/SAS/EPC-ectomy....

Shuffler · 05-20-2004, 05:02 PM

Paul, those are Mikuni carb valves that are part of the canister system on some later model 950s (like mine). They're not worth shit which is why they need to be yanked. Some canister systems have them, others don't.

Katoum · 05-20-2004, 05:26 PM

These are called vacuum air valves to the best of my knowledge, and are located beside carbon cannister and under air box, they are found on all true 04 model for sure, they are the models with black rims and center stand included.

Quote:

Originally Posted by motozilla

What are these things circled??? I don't recall them when I did my canister/SAS/EPC-ectomy....

jimbes · 05-20-2004, 06:42 PM

Thanks for the pictures. So is this a "true" 2004 model? Could you tell me exactly what you had to do other than rip out all that stuff? I've seen mention of check valves, and another post about running lines through the airbox and such. It's killing me that I have < 100 miles on my S in 2.5 weeks, and that mileage won't be getting any higher for a while, but when I CAN ride, I'd like to have the bike ready to roll. I'll probably even have my "free" bags by then. THANKS.

Katoum · 05-20-2004, 08:29 PM

You may not want to do this if you are running stock pipes, as no one know the effect on the Coleman Catalizers. If you have aftermarket mufflers, please search for Flannys post on what to remove. Basically you vent the tanks, remove the carbon canister, and remove all line and hose that connect to the intake manifolds. You remove the SAS valve from behind the air box and remove the hoses and cover plates from the heads, then you place my blanking plates over the holes leaving the stock reed valve and gasket in place. You will need a K&N or similar inline air vent filter for crankcase, which will filter the atmospheric air to the carb vent tubes. Then you set the carb needles one notch richer, and turn the fuel screws to 21/4 out as manual states, and enjoy. If I missed anything I;m sorry, but it will be very clear once your in there. Allow 4-6 hrs so you will not have to rush, its not hard but you do not want to have to do it twice

QUOTE=jimbes]Thanks for the pictures. So is this a "true" 2004 model? Could you tell me exactly what you had to do other than rip out all that stuff? I've seen mention of check valves, and another post about running lines through the airbox and such. It's killing me that I have < 100 miles on my S in 2.5 weeks, and that mileage won't be getting any higher for a while, but when I CAN ride, I'd like to have the bike ready to roll. I'll probably even have my "free" bags by then. THANKS.[/QUOTE]

Shuffler · 05-22-2004, 07:08 AM

Katoum, do you have a part no. or picture of the filter you used to vent the crankcase breather? Is this essential right away, or can it be added later? I'm assuming it's a 2-way vent, as opposed to 1-way, right? I'm also assuming I can install this after everthing's back together, without having to remove panels, tanks, etc.?

Katoum · 05-22-2004, 09:06 AM

I do not have picture of part I ordered from KTM as dealer ordered it for me. It is off a 640 Adventurer and is a inline filter for the crankcase breather I think. Temporarily I used this air filter for PCV valve that I got from NAPA, just put hose inside and taped for extra security and zapped to tangs on back or air box. Note in picture how I capped off where SAS attached to air box, all these nipples are available at NAPA of the HELP tree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuffler

Katoum, do you have a part no. or picture of the filter you used to vent the crankcase breather? Is this essential right away, or can it be added later? I'm assuming it's a 2-way vent, as opposed to 1-way, right? I'm also assuming I can install this after everthing's back together, without having to remove panels, tanks, etc.?

Greg Minor · 05-22-2004, 11:17 AM

What is the velcro around your wrist for?

Shuffler · 05-22-2004, 11:35 AM

is that a hot plug in your storage box coming straight off the battery?

Shuffler · 05-22-2004, 05:06 PM

Spent a couple hours this afternoon removing the canister system. Also awaiting my blanking plates from Katoum so I can do the SAS removal. I have some questions:

The de-canisterization:

Regarding the carb vent tubes in the airbox: I ran each to a Y connector and out the rear right side of the airbox where there's a blank rubber hole (cut away a small bit & ran the tubing through it). Can the carbs simply vent to atmosphere as is, or should I plug in a filter? I don't see the need for a filter if I just run the tube into the toolbox (?), but it couldn't hurt either, I guess.

Regarding the crankcase breather hose to the top of the airbox: Is it possible to just plug that opening and then clamp some kind of filter directly onto the end of the hose? I assume this is the hose where folks have said oil runs into the airbox when the bike gets tipped over (??). Or, does the crankcase rely on the airbox vaccuum to vent properly?

Regarding the leftover holes on the bottom of the airbox where the carb vent valve was mounted, what did you use to plug those?? I'm thinking some of those little round rubber grommets...

Anybody covered the snorkel to prevent grit from getting in? Thought I read about somebody using panty hose or something...

Anybody installed the Sommer airbox mod? Mine hasn't arrived yet. Does this offer enough protection against dirt/grit getting into the airbox?

The SAS system:

Looks like I need to move the radiator and oil reservoir to gain access to the forward cylinder head?

How do I get those clamps off the SAS hoses? They don't look like they were meant to come off.

What's up with the vent tubes on the inner side of each tank? Are those necessary, since I've got one-way vents installed at the top end?

I can see how working on the carbs could be a bitch. I have no experience with that and will just have the dealer tweak the carbs once I get all this done.

Sorry about the lengthy post. I just want to be sure I get this right the first time, 'cuz taking all the stuff off the bike to gain access is a pain in the ass.

Renegade6 · 05-22-2004, 05:53 PM

Can answer some of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuffler

Regarding the carb vent tubes in the airbox: I ran each to a Y connector and out the rear right side of the airbox where there's a blank rubber hole (cut away a small bit & ran the tubing through it). Can the carbs simply vent to atmosphere as is, or should I plug in a filter?

On the earlier 04s, the carb vents just vent to the atmosphere. They run through the bottom of the airbox.

What's up with the vent tubes on the inner side of each tank? Are those necessary, since I've got one-way vents installed at the top end?

Pretty sure these are drains for the filler necks.

Shuffler · 05-22-2004, 06:33 PM

thanks - that makes sense; they're overflow tubes in case the tanks get filled to high.

I'll probably put a Uni filter on the carb vent hose eventually, but for now sounds like it's fine to zip tie it to some point behind the airbox.

I'll have to check Radio Shack to see about some rubber grommets for those airbox holes.

k7 · 05-22-2004, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuffler

I'll have to check Radio Shack to see about some rubber grommets for those airbox holes.

A decent hardware store should some plugs too. Our local Ace has a much better selection of stuff like this than Homeydiscount.

oldkrank · 05-23-2004, 07:45 PM

I got my bike back from the dealer and discovered that bike ran badly between 4K and 6K and generally farted and sputtered through out the rev range. Not good.

In a wild hope

I installed the aluminum mufflers that I had ordered with the bike that had recently arrived. As expected the new muffler system made no improvement

.

I followed your instructions and removed the SAS and canister plumbing. During this procedure I discovered that the dealer had half disinstalled the systems

, with less than satisfactory results.

As with others I capped off the manifold intakes with autostore nipples designed for that purpose.

I can report that the sascanisterectomy was a complete success

. In the test ride I grabbed a handful of throttle and discovered that the bike would now pop an impressive wheely. The bike accelerates smoothly throughout the rev range and no longer backfires during decelleration.

One issue that was not clear to me

. Each gas tank has two vents. Should both of these be vented to areas where fuel will not cause any unwanted excitement

?

Thanks

for all your help.

05-20-2004, 04:45 PM	#1
Katoum ^OP Adventurer Joined: Feb 2004 Oddometer: 711	Gentlemen, remove your plumbing!! While, its all old news now but I thought I would post a picture of just what comes off after a total SASectomy and Canisteronomy. Total weight reduction by goverment approved postage machine was 1342 gram reduction. This combined with carb needle raised, and fuel screws at 21/2 turns has for me IMHO totally transformed the way the 950 performs. There is no more sudden die syndrome after parked hot for a period, no more surging at steady throttle around 3500-4000 RPM and starts first time every time hot or cold. There's been a lot of discussion on how all these systems interact and what cause's what, but is no denying the fact it plain kicks ass with all the shit removed. As a side benefit with the Akro's it used to sound kind of like a H-D popping on deceleration, now mine is totally pop free and has taken on more of a Ducati sound, I like it. PS I picked up extra Blanking Plates today so if you need some please read the post by doing a search on Blanking Plates. Cheers, Katoum Attached Images

05-20-2004, 04:55 PM	#2
motozilla Beastly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2002 Location: PHX, AZ Oddometer: 5,723	What are these things circled??? I don't recall them when I did my canister/SAS/EPC-ectomy.... Attached Images __________________ Hey hold my beer and watch this!

05-20-2004, 05:02 PM	#3
Shuffler Getting a grip... Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Niwot CO Oddometer: 1,605	Paul, those are Mikuni carb valves that are part of the canister system on some later model 950s (like mine). They're not worth shit which is why they need to be yanked. Some canister systems have them, others don't. __________________ The simple facts of the matter are that Rome fell for at least four reasons: A decline in moral values and political civility at home; an overconfident and overextended military; fiscal irresponsibility by the central government; and an inability to control one’s borders. Sound familiar?

05-20-2004, 06:42 PM	#5
jimbes Adventurer Joined: May 2004 Oddometer: 72	Thanks for the pictures. So is this a "true" 2004 model? Could you tell me exactly what you had to do other than rip out all that stuff? I've seen mention of check valves, and another post about running lines through the airbox and such. It's killing me that I have < 100 miles on my S in 2.5 weeks, and that mileage won't be getting any higher for a while, but when I CAN ride, I'd like to have the bike ready to roll. I'll probably even have my "free" bags by then. THANKS. __________________ Jim 2012 BMW R1200GSA Triple Black 2004 KTM 950 Adventure S

05-22-2004, 07:08 AM	#7
Shuffler Getting a grip... Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Niwot CO Oddometer: 1,605	Katoum, do you have a part no. or picture of the filter you used to vent the crankcase breather? Is this essential right away, or can it be added later? I'm assuming it's a 2-way vent, as opposed to 1-way, right? I'm also assuming I can install this after everthing's back together, without having to remove panels, tanks, etc.? __________________ The simple facts of the matter are that Rome fell for at least four reasons: A decline in moral values and political civility at home; an overconfident and overextended military; fiscal irresponsibility by the central government; and an inability to control one’s borders. Sound familiar?

05-20-2004, 08:29 PM	#6
Katoum ^OP Adventurer Joined: Feb 2004 Oddometer: 711	You may not want to do this if you are running stock pipes, as no one know the effect on the Coleman Catalizers. If you have aftermarket mufflers, please search for Flannys post on what to remove. Basically you vent the tanks, remove the carbon canister, and remove all line and hose that connect to the intake manifolds. You remove the SAS valve from behind the air box and remove the hoses and cover plates from the heads, then you place my blanking plates over the holes leaving the stock reed valve and gasket in place. You will need a K&N or similar inline air vent filter for crankcase, which will filter the atmospheric air to the carb vent tubes. Then you set the carb needles one notch richer, and turn the fuel screws to 21/4 out as manual states, and enjoy. If I missed anything I;m sorry, but it will be very clear once your in there. Allow 4-6 hrs so you will not have to rush, its not hard but you do not want to have to do it twice QUOTE=jimbes]Thanks for the pictures. So is this a "true" 2004 model? Could you tell me exactly what you had to do other than rip out all that stuff? I've seen mention of check valves, and another post about running lines through the airbox and such. It's killing me that I have < 100 miles on my S in 2.5 weeks, and that mileage won't be getting any higher for a while, but when I CAN ride, I'd like to have the bike ready to roll. I'll probably even have my "free" bags by then. THANKS.[/QUOTE]

05-22-2004, 11:17 AM	#9
Greg Minor The Trespasser Joined: Oct 2003 Location: Escondido Ca Oddometer: 2,322	What is the velcro around your wrist for? __________________ THE ORANGE ONES ARE FASTER! Have maximum fun while preserving bike and body 2004 KTM 950 2003 Ducati Multistrada 2001 Honda XR 400 1988 C&J Honda 625 1970 Honda SL 100 (green)

05-22-2004, 11:35 AM	#10
Shuffler Getting a grip... Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Niwot CO Oddometer: 1,605	is that a hot plug in your storage box coming straight off the battery? __________________ The simple facts of the matter are that Rome fell for at least four reasons: A decline in moral values and political civility at home; an overconfident and overextended military; fiscal irresponsibility by the central government; and an inability to control one’s borders. Sound familiar?

05-22-2004, 05:06 PM	#11
Shuffler Getting a grip... Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Niwot CO Oddometer: 1,605	Canisterectomy & SAS observations Spent a couple hours this afternoon removing the canister system. Also awaiting my blanking plates from Katoum so I can do the SAS removal. I have some questions: The de-canisterization: Regarding the carb vent tubes in the airbox: I ran each to a Y connector and out the rear right side of the airbox where there's a blank rubber hole (cut away a small bit & ran the tubing through it). Can the carbs simply vent to atmosphere as is, or should I plug in a filter? I don't see the need for a filter if I just run the tube into the toolbox (?), but it couldn't hurt either, I guess. Regarding the crankcase breather hose to the top of the airbox: Is it possible to just plug that opening and then clamp some kind of filter directly onto the end of the hose? I assume this is the hose where folks have said oil runs into the airbox when the bike gets tipped over (??). Or, does the crankcase rely on the airbox vaccuum to vent properly? Regarding the leftover holes on the bottom of the airbox where the carb vent valve was mounted, what did you use to plug those?? I'm thinking some of those little round rubber grommets... Anybody covered the snorkel to prevent grit from getting in? Thought I read about somebody using panty hose or something... Anybody installed the Sommer airbox mod? Mine hasn't arrived yet. Does this offer enough protection against dirt/grit getting into the airbox? The SAS system: Looks like I need to move the radiator and oil reservoir to gain access to the forward cylinder head? How do I get those clamps off the SAS hoses? They don't look like they were meant to come off. What's up with the vent tubes on the inner side of each tank? Are those necessary, since I've got one-way vents installed at the top end? I can see how working on the carbs could be a bitch. I have no experience with that and will just have the dealer tweak the carbs once I get all this done. Sorry about the lengthy post. I just want to be sure I get this right the first time, 'cuz taking all the stuff off the bike to gain access is a pain in the ass. __________________ The simple facts of the matter are that Rome fell for at least four reasons: A decline in moral values and political civility at home; an overconfident and overextended military; fiscal irresponsibility by the central government; and an inability to control one’s borders. Sound familiar?

05-22-2004, 06:33 PM	#13
Shuffler Getting a grip... Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Niwot CO Oddometer: 1,605	thanks - that makes sense; they're overflow tubes in case the tanks get filled to high. I'll probably put a Uni filter on the carb vent hose eventually, but for now sounds like it's fine to zip tie it to some point behind the airbox. I'll have to check Radio Shack to see about some rubber grommets for those airbox holes. __________________ The simple facts of the matter are that Rome fell for at least four reasons: A decline in moral values and political civility at home; an overconfident and overextended military; fiscal irresponsibility by the central government; and an inability to control one’s borders. Sound familiar?

05-23-2004, 07:45 PM	#15
oldkrank Not to be confused Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Running Duke Ranch, Tx Oddometer: 39	Sascanisterectomy Report I got my bike back from the dealer and discovered that bike ran badly between 4K and 6K and generally farted and sputtered through out the rev range. Not good. In a wild hope I installed the aluminum mufflers that I had ordered with the bike that had recently arrived. As expected the new muffler system made no improvement . I followed your instructions and removed the SAS and canister plumbing. During this procedure I discovered that the dealer had half disinstalled the systems , with less than satisfactory results. As with others I capped off the manifold intakes with autostore nipples designed for that purpose. I can report that the sascanisterectomy was a complete success . In the test ride I grabbed a handful of throttle and discovered that the bike would now pop an impressive wheely. The bike accelerates smoothly throughout the rev range and no longer backfires during decelleration. One issue that was not clear to me . Each gas tank has two vents. Should both of these be vented to areas where fuel will not cause any unwanted excitement ? Thanks for all your help.

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