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Old 05-26-2013, 09:19 PM   #13786
Low Down
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Originally Posted by snailrider View Post

Can't answer the qusstion??
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:35 PM   #13787
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Originally Posted by seabee1 View Post
Dude, if your bike is street registered, plus has an ohv sticker, you are good on and off road, regardless if its primarily off road or not. Primarily off road just gets you the discount on the registration fees.

I'm done.
WRONG, and that is where the misconception is. They may not enforce it, but they could. If you are registered for road use, you have met most of the requirements, so the OHV, by nature give you permission to ride anywhere on the state lands that are allowed to be driven on. Off and on road.

When you register your quad, you may never drive it on a road, ever, so you get the primary off. You may want to drive it on the park roads, so you swear to the insurance etc. Now you can ride on the park road. If you get the off road permit for your street legal machine, you have not certified on the OHV permit that you have met the requirements. This is a departmental thing, obviously, you have insurance to be street legal, but on your app, you chose off road, That is all fish game/parks rec care about so technically you do not have the parks permission to use the roads. You are limited to off road only in the state lands. That is what you applied for.

This is how it was explained to me by the fish and game. Like it or not, it is a technicality, and they can make your day hell if they choose to. They are not the MVD.

Let's say, you are driving in the area that falls under the fish and game/parks and rec. If you do not have the OHV, even though you are on the road, you can be ticketed. So, by those same rules, as inane as they are, and probably not enforced, if you applied for your OHV under the auspice of off road, you are only being certified for off road on those lands.

Is it a different for each use? That I do not know.

I got mine, I am legal for all, so do as you wish. Read and understand what you sign. Learn the hard way, take your chances, listen to anybody you want to. Use that thing in the bucket, drive safe, enjoy the outdoors and tell great stories.

I do not know how else to explain the idiotic rules, these government branches are not fully synchronized. And chances are if you are getting pulled over, they already don't like something you did.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:36 PM   #13788
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Originally Posted by KIC View Post
Alright kids..play nice !
GAWD DAMNIT. I'm tryin' Bill... I'm tryin!

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Old 05-26-2013, 09:49 PM   #13789
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Originally Posted by Low Down View Post
Can't answer the qusstion??
I choose not to discuss this with you any longer. You didn't exactly present your debate or objections to the statements I made in any form of friendly manner.

Take it for what it is worth. I came to this area of Advrider to see if some folks were out for rides. I had no idea I was going to be fighting about the validity of me giving accurate, informative, information to keep you and others out of possible trouble over a technicality on the OHV app.

Best Wishes to you,
Dave
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:54 PM   #13790
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Check this out:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/arizona...s.asp?title=28

Arizona Revised Statutes, Title 28, Chapper 3, Article 20...

If you want to skirt around this shit because it makes you feel better, then do it... otherwise just comply and enjoy life not paying registration fees.

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Old 05-26-2013, 09:59 PM   #13791
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Huh. I have a buddy who lives in Jerome and he registered his quads for road use. Even got a dual sport kit of sorts to make it road legal, and he rides it on the road. I've ridden his other quad with him through town, waved at the policeman as we went by, and continued onto perkinsville road. (A dirt road, or off road). Never a peep from him or the sheriff we passed. Come to think about it, the game and fish guys never gave us any grief while we were hunting on those same quads, even in down town flagstaff.
But maybe I have it all wrong...

Damnit! I said I was done, didn't I?
Ok. Now I'm done.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:12 PM   #13792
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Originally Posted by snailrider View Post
I choose not to discuss this with you any longer. You didn't exactly present your debate or objections to the statements I made in any form of friendly manner.

Take it for what it is worth. I came to this area of Advrider to see if some folks were out for rides. I had no idea I was going to be fighting about the validity of me giving accurate, informative, information to keep you and others out of possible trouble over a technicality on the OHV app.

Best Wishes to you,
Dave

Like I said... do some homework. If you know what the laws/regulations are, you have nothing to fear. I've done my homework and I'm confident that I have all the bases covered.

Now if we could get some other FF's to do the same, we wouldn't be having this disscussion... would we??

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Old 05-26-2013, 11:10 PM   #13793
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Originally Posted by snailrider View Post
I choose not to discuss this with you any longer. You didn't exactly present your debate or objections to the statements I made in any form of friendly manner.

Take it for what it is worth. I came to this area of Advrider to see if some folks were out for rides. I had no idea I was going to be fighting about the validity of me giving accurate, informative, information to keep you and others out of possible trouble over a technicality on the OHV app.

Best Wishes to you,
Dave

Thanks for the information you presented. I've not seen things go negative between people before on this thread so hopefully you'll feel welcome to post here looking for rides, etc... in the future.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:08 AM   #13794
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Originally Posted by snailrider View Post
Well talking to fish and game and going to the MVD, besides trying to navigate both websites, is enough homework for me. Take your chances, I just did this last week, and trust me when I say: I am aware of due diligence.

But you my friend accused me of what you are guilty of, not doing your homework.
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Originally Posted by snailrider View Post
Been there, done that, and for clarification I picked up the phone and had them explain the contradictory information I received, from their sites. AND, the rules are changing daily, even as to how you renew yearly.

You can armchair quarterback all you want, I got down in the trenches with these people. I did so because I listened to people like you, and some others and nobody seemed to really know and understand how it worked, including those who were doing the paperwork.

And I, just having my new bike, and not wishing to have it impounded, made DAMN SURE I knew the skinny. And that meant reading the website and getting clarifications. A bit more detailed than just assuming I knew what they were trying to say on a web page designed by the lowest bidder.

And anybody else reading here, I would highly recommend doing your own research. But ask people close to the laws, not people who may never have to deal with the headache should you get it wrong. Because I almost took advice like given here, and that may or may not pan out with a ranger who was hell bent on making your day bad.

The OHV sticker can be applied for with or without having your vehicle registered for road use, what box you choose does matter. If you choose off road, you do not have permission to ride on the parks roads, and you can take that to the bank or court or wherever you go to fight your ticket.
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Originally Posted by swimmer View Post
Thanks for the information you presented. I've not seen things go negative between people before on this thread so hopefully you'll feel welcome to post here looking for rides, etc... in the future.

What information are we thanking snailrider for exactly? Collecting hearsay from people employed with fish/game and the MVD is no way to understand the way the AZ OHV program works.


This is the AZ Revised Statute concerning what snailrider is squabbling about. This is not an opinion, this is how the law is written:


28-1177. Off-highway vehicle user fee; indicia; registration; state trust land recreational permit; exception
A. A person shall not operate an all-terrain vehicle or an off-highway vehicle in this state without an off-highway vehicle user indicia issued by the department if the all-terrain vehicle or off-highway vehicle meets both of the following criteria:
1. Is designed by the manufacturer primarily for travel over unimproved terrain.
2. Has an unladen weight of eighteen hundred pounds or less.
B. A person shall apply to the department of transportation for the off-highway vehicle user indicia by submitting an application prescribed by the department of transportation and a user fee for the indicia in an amount to be determined by the director of the department of transportation in cooperation with the director of the Arizona game and fish department and the Arizona state parks board. The user indicia is valid for one year from the date of issuance and may be renewed. The department shall prescribe by rule the design and placement of the indicia.
C. When a person pays for an off-highway vehicle user indicia pursuant to this section, the person may request a motor vehicle registration if the vehicle meets all equipment requirements to be operated on a highway pursuant to article 16 of this chapter. If a person submits a signed affidavit to the department affirming that the vehicle meets all of the equipment requirements for highway use and that the vehicle will be operated primarily off of highways, the department shall register the vehicle for highway use and the vehicle owner is not required to pay the registration fee prescribed in section 28-2003. This subsection does not apply to vehicles that as produced by the manufacturer meet the equipment requirements to be operated on a highway pursuant to article 16 of this chapter.
D. The director shall deposit, pursuant to sections 35-146 and 35-147, seventy per cent of the user fees collected pursuant to this section in the off-highway vehicle recreation fund established by section 28-1176 and thirty per cent of the user fees collected pursuant to this section in the Arizona highway user revenue fund.
E. An occupant of an off-highway vehicle with a user indicia issued pursuant to this section who crosses state trust lands must comply with all of the rules and requirements under a state trust land recreational permit. All occupants of an off-highway vehicle with a user indicia shall obtain a state trust land recreational permit from the state land department for all other authorized recreational activities on state trust land.
F. This section does not apply to off-highway vehicles, all-terrain vehicles or off-road recreational motor vehicles that are used off-highway exclusively for agricultural, ranching, construction, mining or building trade purposes.





Do what you will with it... and as far as the way this thread has gone.... I'd say you'd need to check out the way it began to really be able to form an opinion on it.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:28 AM   #13795
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Thanks for the information you presented. I've not seen things go negative between people before on this thread so hopefully you'll feel welcome to post here looking for rides, etc... in the future.
Hey Swimmer, Thanks. I was reading the first post this morning, do the adv riders still meet at the Red Garter on the first and third thursdays at 6:30?

Last night I told my gal about a possible ride around Mt Lemon. She got all worried and asked how I knew the others. I told her from here, and she got all paranoid. "What if they rob you?" We hear stories like that about Craigslist people.

I just reminder her of how we met, Online, and she started to think then started to laugh.

Anyway, I'm going to gear up with what I have and head west this morning. Just take some easy roads, make mental notes of where I wish to ride, next time. I need to find out more about riding the Reservations.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:19 AM   #13796
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Not to beat a dead horse but I have input into the whole ohv sticker thing. The interpretation of the officer about whether your moto is an off road vehicle from the factory or not is whether or not you'll "need" the sticker. i can technically argue that since my bike was street legal from the factory, I don't "need" the sticker.

Regardless, I chose to get one anyway for one very important reason. The OHV sticker allows travel across arizona state trust land, where normally you need a state trust land permit(also like ~20 bucks). So rather than arguing with officers in off road areas, I pay the 25 bucks for the sticker and I avoid those arguments, as well as being able to ride on state trust land, which I do frequently. 30 bucks a year allows me to ride off road without hassle, ride on state trust land, and ride on the street. To me it's well worth it

So there, my .02
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:41 AM   #13797
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Lets see now

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Originally Posted by seabee1 View Post
Come to think about it, the game and fish guys never gave us any grief while we were hunting on those same quads, even in down town flagstaff.

Not to throw any more chit in the game but, I would like to know what it was you were hunting in "DOWNTOWN FLAGSTAFF"

Lets see how you splain that one Lucy
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:40 AM   #13798
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Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
Not to beat a dead horse but I have input into the whole ohv sticker thing. The interpretation of the officer about whether your moto is an off road vehicle from the factory or not is whether or not you'll "need" the sticker. i can technically argue that since my bike was street legal from the factory, I don't "need" the sticker.

So there, my .02
Hey Drizzt,

The way I read that section, it's talking about registering a Primarily offroad bike for on road.

I think you have to have an OHV steeker no matter how you handle the on road part.

From Low Down's post:
"C. When a person pays for an off-highway vehicle user "steeker" pursuant to this section, the person may request a motor vehicle registration if the vehicle meets all equipment requirements to be operated on a highway pursuant to article 16 of this chapter. "

This means you can plate any ol' dirt bike by hanging a few lights and other doo dads on it so you can ride on road and not have to pay the normal high registration fee. This is all moot if you just buy old worthless dirt bike anyway as the fee is not much.


"If a person submits a signed affidavit to the department affirming that the vehicle meets all of the equipment requirements for highway use and that the vehicle will be operated primarily off of highways, the department shall register the vehicle for highway use and the vehicle owner is not required to pay the registration fee prescribed in section 28-2003.

This subsection does not apply to vehicles that as produced by the manufacturer meet the equipment requirements to be operated on a highway pursuant to article 16 of this chapter."

This is the part where they can make your life hell if desired by using the 2 previous paragraphs, especially if that primarily off road bike is a BMW or Vstrom, etc. If you go down this road, at least paint your bike orange to have a fighting chance.


So when I pick up my bike next weekend, I'll take it and register it for the road because it was road legal from the factory. It will be cheap because it's a 1989 BMW.

I'll pay for the OHV steeker because I want to ride the BMW off road.

I'll pay for the State Trust Land permit because there are riding destinations that are great places to ride and not just pass through. Actually I still have a valid State Trust Land permit.

Then, I'll see you guys on the trail.


Russ
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:03 AM   #13799
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Originally Posted by gnadenlos View Post
Looking at going for a ride tomorrow in the morning - something simple, just a nice
ride...
Since I've only been in Tucson for 2 weeks now I am thinking about exploring
the access road on the back side of Mt Lemmon.
Any suggestions, recomendations - anyone wat to go?



Happy Memorial Day!
Doh! Sorry I didn't see this post earlier. I would have liked to come along.

However, since it's too late for me to come along on this ride... anybody interested in riding this up coming Sat? 6/1/2013 I'm pretty open to ideas about where to go since I don't really know where most of the trails are.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #13800
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I disturbed the ladies this morning

I left about 6:20 this morning for a short ride in the Santa Ritas.

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