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Old 08-20-2013, 11:13 AM   #14161
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:26 PM   #14162
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Originally Posted by MotorcycleWriter View Post
Where's a good place to buy moto gear in Tucson? Ironhorse is a great dealership but they're limited to mostly BMW stuff and I'm looking for a good dual sport tank bag or tail bag for the R100GS. I went by Performance Cycles and their inventory was crap. (Salesman was pretty rude, too.) Anywhere else I might look? Wouldn't mind perusing a GPS for the bike either, though I know I'd do a lot better online for that.
There's a CycleGear in Tucson. Not the highest quality stuff, but it will do in a pinch.


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Old 08-20-2013, 04:29 PM   #14163
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Someone in Tucson needs to find me a job in the next month so I can rent this house! Physicist/AerospaceEngineer/SFAuthor/CabinetMaker/MotorcycleNut. Any takers???!!!
There's an 0855-13 slot opening @ Huachuca.

But you'd have to work for me, and I'm an ass hole.


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Old 08-20-2013, 06:44 PM   #14164
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Originally Posted by MotorcycleWriter View Post
There's some great light-off road over off of E.Old Spanish Trail at the base of Rincon Peak. Wind your way back on those dirt roads and it gets pretty technical. The GS handled it well until I came to a rocky, off camber uphill. Feel certain I could have done it but didn't want to try with a heavy bike alone and well off road. Next time I'm in town somebody needs to go out there with me! I need to drop this bike a few times so I stop worrying about scratching it. It's close by so makes a great little sand blast after work!

Came across a sign that said something about state land and a permit required. Is that the infamous OHV permit? I turned around there. Didn't want to push my luck.
I believe a Az Hunting or Fishing License allows passage on St6ate Trust Land... Also M/C Writer are you a Geometry Engineer utilizing Pro-E, MasterCam for Machine tools? If so I can think I can help with your employment search...
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:54 PM   #14165
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I believe a Az Hunting or Fishing License allows passage on St6ate Trust Land... Also M/C Writer are you a Geometry Engineer utilizing Pro-E, MasterCam for Machine tools? If so I can think I can help with your employment search...
I thought that about the hunting/fishing license thing too, but I've been advised that unless you're actually fishing or hunting, you can still be ticketed if you don't have the land use permit. One of those things where it all depends on which LEO pulls you over.

Evidently with the hunting license you can argue that you're scouting, but with the fishing license you'd better have a pole! I think the land use permit is about $15 a year, cheap insurance in my book.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:57 PM   #14166
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I believe a Az Hunting or Fishing License allows passage on St6ate Trust Land... Also M/C Writer are you a Geometry Engineer utilizing Pro-E, MasterCam for Machine tools? If so I can think I can help with your employment search...
Awesome Dpac...way to help a brother out. I am pretty familiar with that area off Old Spanish Trail...once you get to the coral off one of the numbered FS roads you can go down until you get to the water tank...after that...no go, it is US Forrest Wilderness area. No wheeled vehicles. However, if you want a hell of a hike you can bushwack about 6 miles up the mountains to a WW II bomber crash...pretty damn cool and not many people have seen it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:28 PM   #14167
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Originally Posted by HoosierTrailmaster View Post
Clarification, you can ride on state trust land with NO permit aside from your OHV sticker if you have an off-road vehicle (a road legal MC with MC plate does not need an OHV sticker). What you can't do is camp or stay in one place. As long as you are moving through you need no special permit.
Are you sure about that?

On the State Trust Land website they clearly state that a permit is required to travel across State Trust land.

Quote:
A recreation permit is required to camp, hike or travel on Trust Land that is designated as open for recreation
Then there's this from the FAQ:

Quote:
Q. Why do I need a Recreation Permit to be on Trust Land?
A. All uses of the land must be permitted and must benefit the Trust; a fact that distinguishes it from the way public land, such as parks or national forests, may be used. While public use of Trust land is not prohibited, it is monitored to ensure protection of the land and compensation to the beneficiaries for its use. [back]

Q. Does my Off-Highway Vehicle Decal allow me to engage in recreational activities on Trust Land?
A. No! While the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT) is responsible for regulating and licensing motor vehicles and other forms of transportation; only the ASLD has the authority to grant access to Trust Land. Whether on private or Trust Land, ADOT requires a person operating an ATV or OHV to have an Off-Highway Vehicle Decal issued by ADOT. (See OHV Decal Information Guide)
The State Land Department (ASLD) is presently working to identify potential routes than may be designated for OHV travel. Once a route has been designated by the ASLD, a properly licensed OHV may use the designated trail for limited travel, subject to the rules and regulations of the ASLD. The designation of an OHV route does not permit holders of an OHV Decal to recreate, stage or park on Trust Land without a Recreation Permit. [back]
I see where you're coming from based on that second Q&A above, but with the way that laws, maps, and legal designations change without notice, rolling across State Trust land without a permit seems a lot like rolling the dice to me.

I'm not trying to be a dick about this, it just seems like there's a lot of fuzzy info about using State Trust land out there. Just based on the info provided by the folks that manage the State Trust land, it seems like a LEO can write you a ticket if A) you don't have a permit & B) he DOES feel like being a dick about this
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:01 PM   #14168
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Originally Posted by DonBenito View Post
Are you sure about that?

On the State Trust Land website they clearly state that a permit is required to travel across State Trust land.



Then there's this from the FAQ:





I see where you're coming from based on that second Q&A above, but with the way that laws, maps, and legal designations change without notice, rolling across State Trust land without a permit seems a lot like rolling the dice to me.

I'm not trying to be a dick about this, it just seems like there's a lot of fuzzy info about using State Trust land out there. Just based on the info provided by the folks that manage the State Trust land, it seems like a LEO can write you a ticket if A) you don't have a permit & B) he DOES feel like being a dick about this
Hmmm well let me see...I have ridden 1000's of miles around AZ off-road...run into plenty of LEO's and a few fish and game and never gotten a ticket...you decide. Oh and all my riding buddies are in the same boat.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:23 PM   #14169
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Originally Posted by HoosierTrailmaster View Post
Hmmm well let me see...I have ridden 1000's of miles around AZ off-road...run into plenty of LEO's and a few fish and game and never gotten a ticket...you decide. Oh and all my riding buddies are in the same boat.
I've actually had the same experience on State Trust land with LEOs. Didn't stop to read the sign on my way in, and the man in the white truck gave me nothing more severe than a friendly wave on the way out.

I get the feeling that State Trust land is kind of BS, and the LEOs for the most part seem to agree with that, all I'm saying is that technically if you're riding on State Trust land without a permit and a LEO decides he wants to write a ticket, he can because according to the landowner (the State Trust) you need a permit to be there.

My point was simply that technically, riding on State Trust land without a permit is a ticketable offense. That seems to be what the literature says, of course the reality on the ground of what is technically illegal vs what gets enforced plays out differently every day, and is rarely reasonable or fair.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:23 AM   #14170
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Originally Posted by AZstateParksOHV View Post
Someone on another thread here brought this gem to my attention :)
I'm the OHV Program Coordinator at Arizona State Parks and will be happy to answer any and all questions you may have about OHV decals, OHV recreation, the AZ State Parks OHV Program, and what type of oil you should run in your KLR :)

WoW, this post and thread is full of misinformation in regards to:
1. Motorcycle Registration
2. OHV Decals, Which agencies are responsible for what
3. State Trust Land Permits
4. and giving way too much credit to AZ Game and Fish

Here's the real scoop when it comes to bikes
1. Do you ride a...
Factory Dual Sport? MC Plate and insurance required, OHV decal optional/not required for dirt travel.
Ride any paved or unpaved road or trail you want (as long as they are legal routes).
Dirt Bike with street legal kit? MC plate lets you ride the pavement with insurance, OHV decal REQUIRED if you hit the dirt.
RV Plate with OHV decal allows dirt trail or OHV area travel only... "no slab for you!"
Dirt Bike? "no slab for you!" RV plate with OHV decal required if you hit the dirt.

2. The OHV decal program was created by Arizona State Legislation. It is not a program of AZ Game & Fish, Arizona State Parks, or the State Land Department but all of the agencies have to follow the law handed down to us. Decal Program is administered by ADOT/DMV, they are the folks who handle vehicle registrations and issue of OHV decals. Money generated by the program is split up among the folks mentioned earlier to implement OHV programs in their respective agencies. Bascially, Parks does the fun stuff like trail development and volunteer programs, Game and Fish handles Law Enforcement and safety training, Land department uses their money to contract law enforcement on their lands. There's a lot more to it, but that's the 30,000' view.

3. If you have an OHV decal on your bike, you don't need the State Trust Land Permit to cross trust land. If you leave a stage vehicle on trust land, that vehicle needs a Trust permit. Also, if you stop to recreate (camp, picnic, do yoga, etc) you will need a Trust rec permit on your person in addition to the sticker on your bike.

4. The OHV Ambassador Program was created and is funded by Arizona State Parks. No Game and Fish personel were at the Ambassador Trailer during the Overland Expo. That was me (AZ State Parks), my staff (contracted thru the BLM and ARS), and our trusted volunteers.

The OHV Decal Program was implemented in 2009 to deal with the rapid rise of ATVs, Side by Sides, dirt bikes, and sand rails being used on public lands. This increase in vehicles and user population is having a negative effect on the lands we all enjoy and may be related to the increase in injuries and deaths here in Arizona. The intent of the program was to create a fund that could be invested in solutions to these problems while creating improved recreational opportunities and economic development related to OHV recreation. Here at Parks, I concentrate on public outreach, public information, and most importantly....getting our land managing partners the money they need to create OHV recreational opportunities while mitigation the effects of OHV abuse. Game and Fish was primarily charged with hiring LEOs to enforce OHV laws, and the Land Department was given 5% to help manage their lands and mitigation damage.
The laws on the books cover it in even more detail, but that's the basics.

Contact me with specific questions...let me know if crazy threads like this pop up and need clarification...and come ride with us at one of my future trail talks to ask questions in person.

Thanks,
Jeff Prince
OHV Program Coordinator
Arizona State Parks
jprince@azstateparks.gov or 602-542-6940 (realize that I am out of the office frequently, email is best)

Oh, and for the record, there is such a thing as a street legal quad, side x side, and dune buggy...these rare creatures can be spotted on slab in just about every cool little town around Arizona. I just rode through Springerville last week from my hotel room in a street legal RZR. Side x sides are common grocery getters in Havasu, Wickenburg, Bouse, Parker, Yuma, etc...

One last thing...I own a KLR 650, feel sorry for me :)
This trip across Arizona was completed almost entirely on dirt without an OHV decal and in full compliance with the law before I joined Parks :)


Here is some clarification on OHV stickers and State Trust Land from a few months ago.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:54 AM   #14171
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erbemone, glad you posted that, saved me alot of typing.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:02 AM   #14172
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OK, this Jeff Prince fella seems to be in the know. I hadn't seen that, thanks erbemone.

I still don't understand why the OHV and State Trust websites seem to say the opposite though. The OHV folks say you need the sticker no matter what and the State Trust folks say you need the permit no matter what. I guess that's because they're selling stickers and permits!

If the guys enforcing all of this see it differently, I suppose that's where the rubber meets the road.

Personally, given the risk that stopping to take a picture, having a snack, or performing a field repair might be interpreted as recreation I'll spend the $15 in CYA money just to be on the safe side.

Hey, somebody has to pay for the gas in all of those white trucks!
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:24 PM   #14173
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even tho it's the 4th Thursday, anyone RG'ing it tomorrow?
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:26 PM   #14174
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even tho it's the 4th Thursday, anyone RG'ing it tomorrow?
Only if you leave your ticket book at home.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:57 PM   #14175
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OK, but should I bring a not-so-full dispenser of 1.25's?
They did recently open that hip downtown store.
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