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Old 02-02-2009, 03:04 PM   #91
Photog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureBoxer
As I said, disabled persons that are clamoring to get onto motorcycles instead of scooters are relatively few in number.
Where are you getting your numbers?

You planning on giving up riding a motorcycle due to injury or arthritis?
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Photog screwed with this post 02-02-2009 at 03:09 PM
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:18 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureBoxer
As I said, disabled persons that are clamoring to get onto motorcycles instead of scooters are relatively few in number. Uncoordinated people should look elsewhere for fun times.
The National Association for Disabled Bikers, here in the UK, would disagree in the strongest terms.

I learned to ride alongside a guy who'd lost his left foot, and he had an adapted gearshift on the handlebars of his Bandit 600. He did just as well, or better, than the rest of us novices.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:26 PM   #93
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I do agree that there are disabled people out there with an interest in motorcycles. I am saying that compared to the total number of bikers, they are relatively few in number.
I will confirm that I don't have numbers to share. If any of you guys do, please tell me and I'll admit I'm wrong. I'm just going from experience.

If I develop severe enough arthritis or sustain an injury that makes it uncomfortable or impossible to use a conventional motorcycle I will stop riding. And if I change my mind, there are many scooters to choose from.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:28 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureBoxer
Hi Mark,

I really hope you're right.
Actually, if you really want to know, I would indeed strongly prefer automatics to be scooter only. Yes, out of principle. If that makes me an elitist (when it comes to motorcycles) then that's fine with me.

As I said, disabled persons that are clamoring to get onto motorcycles instead of scooters are relatively few in number. Uncoordinated people should look elsewhere for fun times. Some people should just not participate in certain activities, period. Lazy people, I have no respect for. I also don't see what they're missing that they can't get out of the latest maxi scooters.

I don't have any actual data either, but I was under the impression that motorcycle ridership is actually doing pretty well now. Why do we need such a huge influx of new uncoordinated lazy riders who can't be bothered to learn a new skill and then squeeze a lever and push a pedal from time to time.

By the way, I'm not angry or offended and hope you're not either. I just have somewhat strong opinions and am passionate about this topic.
Thanks,
Paul
Wow, you sure are full of yourself. You equate auto transmissions only with lazy people and the disabled and then relegate scooters to some similar splinter group of the uncoordinated that doesn't deserve anything but your rather limited idea of a scooter. You're so into yourself that you can't even live with a single motorcycle offered by a major manufacturer (Aprilia's Mana is more of minor thing here in the US based on distribution) and get paranoid that all you toys will go away. I've never met you in person, but your posts in this thread are repellent.

Honda's 'Human Friendly Transmission' does have an odd name, but it looks like an excellent component and a real engineering advancement compared to what's available (which is one reason why the rest of the bike, including price, is so off-putting to so many). Cars with auto transmissions are becoming more fuel effiecient than sticks, not to mention transfering more power as was mentioned previously. I hope Honda figures out how put the HFT into something better looking and lower priced before giving up on it. But you'll probably still refuse to wave at such riders and fester yourself a nicely deserved stomach ulcer.
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Old 02-02-2009, 04:07 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureBoxer
If I develop severe enough arthritis or sustain an injury that makes it uncomfortable or impossible to use a conventional motorcycle I will stop riding. And if I change my mind, there are many scooters to choose from.
or you might also have the option to ride a traditionally-styled motorcycle that has an automatic transmission, based on some R&D that's been done while you were confident that such bikes didn't belong under the butt of a real enthusiast.
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Old 02-02-2009, 04:55 PM   #96
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It is amazing to frequently read everyone bitching and moaning about "bold new colors" for this model year, or how they can't buy the Hoozie Doozie 1200 in this country, yet when Honda puts out the DN-01 there is still all of this negative energy.

You can't hit a home run every at-bat, and you definitely won't hit one if you don't bat at all. I think Honda should be applauded for their efforts, regardless of the "dreamy" price point or the yet to be determined mission of the machine.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:01 PM   #97
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Many are bitching because Honda seems to be building bikes "they think" people want. Meanwhile, if you read forums like these, it's obvious they are not listening.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:12 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff92660
It is amazing to frequently read everyone bitching and moaning about "bold new colors" for this model year, or how they can't buy the Hoozie Doozie 1200 in this country, yet when Honda puts out the DN-01 there is still all of this negative energy.

You can't hit a home run every at-bat, and you definitely won't hit one if you don't bat at all. I think Honda should be applauded for their efforts, regardless of the "dreamy" price point or the yet to be determined mission of the machine.
As mentioned earlier in several posts by other people, I think if they dropped the price, and put some hard luggage on it, and increased displacement, they'd have chance at getting more out there.

I don't hate it; I just think they've got an uphill battle given the price point and some nice maxis that are already out there, unless this is just one of their "because we can" efforts and they already figured on limited sales. Rune-think, maybe.

Back in '04 or so they also had a flat-four automatic concept bike called the Griffon.



but anyway...add some hard bags to the DN01, a bit more get-up-and-go, less coin...who knows, maybe they'll adjust. It may not be what people are asking for here, but I could see it in a nice touring niche.

Then again, I'm usually wailing because I want them to bring back the CB700SC.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:15 PM   #99
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Seems to be a few sensitive people around here. Didn't mean to step on your toes approachbears, but they appear to be easily stepped on.

I'd just like to clarify. When I said uncoordinated people should look elsewhere for fun, I was speaking about both scooters and motorcycles. If you would like to argue with me about that then go right ahead, but you would be wrong.

If there is a reason other than laziness for why an able-bodied person refuses to shift a manual, please educate me.

As for the DN-01, I think it is overpriced for sure. I was surprised that there were no built in storage compartments under all that plastic. I actually think the styling is ok. It might be striking in person.

I was really hoping Honda would make a naked bike with their flat 6. Kind of like the Valkyrie, but less cruiser and more of a standard.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:51 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureBoxer
Seems to be a few sensitive people around here. Didn't mean to step on your toes approachbears, but they appear to be easily stepped on.

I'd just like to clarify. When I said uncoordinated people should look elsewhere for fun, I was speaking about both scooters and motorcycles. If you would like to argue with me about that then go right ahead, but you would be wrong.

If there is a reason other than laziness for why an able-bodied person refuses to shift a manual, please educate me.

As for the DN-01, I think it is overpriced for sure. I was surprised that there were no built in storage compartments under all that plastic. I actually think the styling is ok. It might be striking in person.

I was really hoping Honda would make a naked bike with their flat 6. Kind of like the Valkyrie, but less cruiser and more of a standard.
Getting in and out of traffic jams with an automatic is so sweet. I did 45 minutes of bumper to bumper on my DL650 and it sucked. It would really suck to have to do it every day. Thats what this "future bike" is for... 21st century metro riding.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:02 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureBoxer
I don't have any actual data either, but I was under the impression that motorcycle ridership is actually doing pretty well now. Why do we need such a huge influx of new uncoordinated lazy riders who can't be bothered to learn a new skill and then squeeze a lever and push a pedal from time to time.
This is a little of the "it ain't broken so what's to fix?" approach.

I don't know about ridership, but motorcycle sales are in the hopper right now and were starting a tailspin well before the economic crisis. What the mfgs are worried about is that aging of the market. They're increasingly worried that current bikes appeal only narrowly to an aging group of riders that is diminishing in number - that current bikes are essentially Cadillacs and appeal only to an older and well-heeled riders. Getting motorcycles to appeal to a wider, younger, and more technologically-astute and gadget-centric audience is a BIG deal right now in the industry.

And it sounds a little harsh to me to characterize someone who wants an automatic as "lazy, uncoordinated, and unwilling to be bothered..."?

- Mark
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:17 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureBoxer
Seems to be a few sensitive people around here. Didn't mean to step on your toes approachbears, but they appear to be easily stepped on.

I'd just like to clarify. When I said uncoordinated people should look elsewhere for fun, I was speaking about both scooters and motorcycles. If you would like to argue with me about that then go right ahead, but you would be wrong.

If there is a reason other than laziness for why an able-bodied person refuses to shift a manual, please educate me...
Ok, I'll bite since you specifically called me out. I could write more about what a sanctimonious (and apparently paranoid) cad you are--someone akin to the whiners who loudly protested the inclusion of scooter or road bike categories here on ADVrider. But I guess I'll actually discuss shifting.

1. Focusing on shifting takes away from all the other enjoyable aspects of the ride: from the feel of the tires to hum of the engine to the riding environment itself.

2. Shifting, even by experienced riders and drivers, is becoming less efficient than automatic transmissions. That efficiency refers to both fuel efficiency and precision of operation.

3. Shifting scuffs up your left shoe assuming you don't have an old Ducati or some such to scuff up your right one. This either, a) unbalances a dapper pair of shoes or b) makes some erroneously think its a rare badge of honor for the oh-so-special act of shifting that the rest of the world must not be coordinated enough or too lazy to do. The internet and, sadly, real life is full of self-centered, egomaniacal blowhards already; so b) is not worth encouraging in any fashion.

4. Shifting, as currently configured in most cars and motorcycles, means that you can only move your feet around in a very limited space. This is annoying for: individual riders and drivers on long trips; individual people who just want to try something different; and multiple people of different sizes, shapes and ergonomic preferences who share the same vehicle.

5. There is a certain kind of beauty in the simplicity of design (not the only kind of beauty, but a respectable one nonetheless) and shifting starts adding unsightly extra pedals, levers, bars and cables to what is often a coherent and complete package without them.

6. Shifting is no fun (ie. a boring kind of repetitive) in any kind of traffic, especially anything approaching stop-and-go. Please note that an aversion to repetitive, less-than-fun activities is not the same thing as laziness. Many would consider such aversions to be a sign of intelligence while blind acceptance of needless, mindless repetition to be attributes of those too lazy to better themselves when the opportunity exists.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:41 PM   #103
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wow, i really had no idea shifting was so difficult and took so much concentration for some people. that list is certainly enlightening. i can honestly say i have never felt burdened by having to shift a motorcycle. in fact, perfect matching revs on a downshift provides a large amount of satisfaction for me and adds to the overall enjoyment of driving a bike.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:49 PM   #104
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Thanks for the kind words.
It seems that many here are in support of automatics. I thought since this was a motorcycle forum others might agree with me. Well I'll still hold out some hope that things won't change too much. We'll find out in a few years I guess.
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:12 PM   #105
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Dn-01

I sat on this bike at the TMCS in December. Looks good and I am sure it appeals to some people(riders), just probably not on this site.

Anthony
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