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Old 03-30-2009, 06:51 AM   #61
WoodWorks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch_oz
Going by the pics in post #3...are those things actually bolted to the engine??

ARRGGHHH!!
They're bolted on the same way as the Adventure Spec, SW Motech, Hepko Becker, and Givi bars. Any others that I've missed?

David
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:01 AM   #62
F800 Rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodWorks
They're bolted on the same way as the Adventure Spec, SW Motech, Hepko Becker, and Givi bars. Any others that I've missed?

David
Metal Mule.

Seriously - every single set of crashbars on the market bolt there with the exception of the Wunderlich setup.
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:33 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F800 Rob
Metal Mule.

Seriously - every single set of crashbars on the market bolt there with the exception of the Wunderlich setup.
and the Touratech
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:42 AM   #64
MCMXCIVRS
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Even the BMW bars mount to the engine. I suspect that is exactly what those mounting points were made for.
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:36 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCMXCIVRS
Even the BMW bars mount to the engine. I suspect that is exactly what those mounting points were made for.
+1 Yup.
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Old 03-30-2009, 02:01 PM   #66
glitch_oz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCMXCIVRS
Even the BMW bars mount to the engine. I suspect that is exactly what those mounting points were made for.
Wouldn't be the first time that BM has fugged up.
After all, it's to THEIR benefit when finishing up with cracked engine cases after a more serious hit.

Seems that only Wunderlich and Touratech got it right then.

I'm not an engineer, but a "flexible" (steel) long-leverage impact-item bolted to a more rigid /brittle Alum item spells trouble.... doesn't really need Einstein-quals, does it?

Time will tell, I guess...

(nb Not trying to stir the shit here, just thinking aloud...and from experience)
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Old 03-30-2009, 02:39 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch_oz
Wouldn't be the first time that BM has fugged up.
After all, it's to THEIR benefit when finishing up with cracked engine cases after a more serious hit.

Seems that only Wunderlich and Touratech got it right then.

I'm not an engineer, but a "flexible" (steel) long-leverage impact-item bolted to a more rigid /brittle Alum item spells trouble.... doesn't really need Einstein-quals, does it?

Time will tell, I guess...

(nb Not trying to stir the shit here, just thinking aloud...and from experience)
Your profile doesn't say you even own an F800GS, so I'm going to roll with that assumption. Are you qualified to make these statements?

When speaking of the Holan, BMW, Adv Spec, etc.: the brunt of the force from a hit would direct most of the force to the frame. The main connection point for these crash bars is on the sides of the bike, by the top of the engine. This connection is directly to frame, and designed by BMW and other to take the brunt of the impact. Not much would happen to the small connecting point at the bottom of the engine. And actually, the Holans are designed to relieve stress at these connection points as well.
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:24 PM   #68
F800 Rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch_oz
Wouldn't be the first time that BM has fugged up.
After all, it's to THEIR benefit when finishing up with cracked engine cases after a more serious hit.

Seems that only Wunderlich and Touratech got it right then.

I'm not an engineer, but a "flexible" (steel) long-leverage impact-item bolted to a more rigid /brittle Alum item spells trouble.... doesn't really need Einstein-quals, does it?

Time will tell, I guess...

(nb Not trying to stir the shit here, just thinking aloud...and from experience)
You are completely off base here. Crash bars are not designed to an immovable object that smashes everything around it during a crash. They're designed to 1) provide a certain level of rigidness in case of minor impacts 2) bend at predesigned points of inflection during a more severe impact, and 3) snap at the mounting points instead of damaging what they attach to. We're not talking titanium mounting hardware here...

In any case, you're incorrect about Touratech - they attach to the same mounting points, and I'm putting my trust in them (and their OEM Holan) over someone on an internet forum.

Nothing personal, just sayin...
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:42 PM   #69
DiabloBlanco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch_oz
Wouldn't be the first time that BM has fugged up.

Seems that only Wunderlich and Touratech got it right then.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you'd know this F800Rob) but isn't Touratech the ones who make the crash bars for BMW?. So that kinda negates the Touratech is holier than thou (while charging an arm and a leg).
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:49 PM   #70
glitch_oz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Your profile doesn't say you even own an F800GS, so I'm going to roll with that assumption. Are you qualified to make these statements?
Doesn't make a diff, does it?
Physics are physics, impact forces are impact forces...regardless of brand/ model.
Qualified?
If common sense and 35 years of wrenching and riding (incl. building a few bikes over the last few years) counts....



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
When speaking of the Holan, BMW, Adv Spec, etc.: the brunt of the force from a hit would direct most of the force to the frame. The main connection point for these crash bars is on the sides of the bike, by the top of the engine. This connection is directly to frame, and designed by BMW and other to take the brunt of the impact. Not much would happen to the small connecting point at the bottom of the engine. And actually, the Holans are designed to relieve stress at these connection points as well.
??
If a hit is directed upwards and looking at the twin-brace of the bars running vertically up the side, those 2 little 5mm Allen bolts at the bottom will either rip out of their their threads or just snap, the curved mounting plate hitting the engine cover (which is usually very thin cast).

The more likely scenario is a drop while riding... directing impact forces upwards/ rearwards....and as the upper mounting location is more solid than the bottom, that upper bolt will act as a pivot... again tearing the bottom plate off the casings (as the down-leg is nicely braced and therefore fairly solid = transmit forces).
God forbid if those down-struts get snagged on a solid branch or the edge of a rock (creating rotational forced on the bottom bracket).

It's the same problem as on the DL650, which just hasn't got any decent mounting points to mount a bash plate...some aftermarket supplier decided to make a "super-tough" bashplate from 5mm alloy, all braced up and beautifully finished....with a top-mount on the front cyl head.

Great piece of work that thing .....for an ashtray.
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:34 PM   #71
The Griz OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch_oz
Doesn't make a diff, does it?
Physics are physics, impact forces are impact forces...regardless of brand/ model.
Yes it does make a difference. Every bike is designed differently.

Quote:
Qualified?
If common sense and 35 years of wrenching and riding (incl. building a few bikes over the last few years) counts....
Not qualified on the F800GS.

Quote:
If a hit is directed upwards and looking at the twin-brace of the bars running vertically up the side, those 2 little 5mm Allen bolts at the bottom will either rip out of their their threads or just snap, the curved mounting plate hitting the engine cover (which is usually very thin cast).

The more likely scenario is a drop while riding... directing impact forces upwards/ rearwards....and as the upper mounting location is more solid than the bottom, that upper bolt will act as a pivot... again tearing the bottom plate off the casings (as the down-leg is nicely braced and therefore fairly solid = transmit forces).
The likely hit would be from the side, not up from the bottom. Hence transmitting the force to the upper frame fastening points. Not the bottom of the engine. For some one so "qualified" on the F800Gs surely you can understand that.

And, whatever dude. You don't know what you're talking about. BMW wouldn't have designed it like that if it would have been a problem. You're purely speculating.

The Griz screwed with this post 03-30-2009 at 04:45 PM
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:55 PM   #72
glitch_oz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F800 Rob
....2) bend at predesigned points of inflection during a more severe impact, and 3) snap at the mounting points instead of damaging what they attach to. ...
2)Predesigned points?
Doesn't that all come down to direction of impact, force-vectors and an endless number of other possibles?

3) Snap at mounting points?
That's one thing I still have to see.
Seen dozens bent and buckled, totally out of shape and folded back onto themselves with all sorts of colateral damage...but I've never seen a crashbar break at the mounting points/ plates.
No OEM bar, Givi, Hepco or whatever...
The odd broken broken weld caused by vibration, sure...but never snapped at "pre-designed" points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by F800 Rob
In any case, you're incorrect about Touratech - they attach to the same mounting points, and I'm putting my trust in them (and their OEM Holan) over someone on an internet forum.
...
Just because someone does something in a certain way doesn't mean that it should be accepted as beyond doubt.
Plenty of evidence around of the "Big Guns" in the industry (any industry, really) goofing up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by F800 Rob
Nothing personal, just sayin...
Same here.
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Old 03-30-2009, 05:06 PM   #73
glitch_oz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Yes it does make a difference. Every bike is designed differently.


Not qualified on the F800GS.


The likely hit would be from the side, not up from the bottom. Hence transmitting the force to the upper frame fastening points. Not the bottom of the engine. For some one so "qualified" on the F800Gs surely you can understand that.

And, whatever dude. You don't know what you're talking about. BMW wouldn't have designed it like that if it would have been a problem. You're purely speculating.


Sorry for sprouting shit then...I'm deeply humbled
Of course the F8 isn't even a bike...and almighty BM is way beyond Godliness
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Old 03-30-2009, 05:41 PM   #74
Bayner
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Just for reference and off topic I understand, But I went with the TT bars and they do not mount to any points on the engine. They use the footpegs and the same central frame mount everyone else does. Sorry, I don't have pics at present.
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:04 PM   #75
The Griz OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch_oz
...the F8 isn't even a bike...and almighty BMW is way beyond Godliness...
I couldn't have said it better myself!!
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