ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-01-2010, 08:21 PM   #1576
herrhelmet
A Serious Man
 
herrhelmet's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: USA West
Oddometer: 2,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by bout-time
Thanks for those replies. Herrhelmet, can you confirm that if that bolt had vibrated loose, it would drop the wheelnut into the air silencer box? I took the silencer off this morning, and no nut to be seen. If it can only fall off inward, then it has to have been sucked into the engine. I will pull the sparkplugs next - the nut may have hit one and closed the gap, if so this would confirm the nut had visited. It sounds like this bolt is undone to change the oil on this bike, so the last person to do so may have neglected to tighten it. Thats the risk you take with secondhand bikes I guess - this time I have been unlucky.
PS, latest thought is that the nut won't get INTO the engine, but be stopped at the valve entrance. Here it may have jammed the valve open and then the piston hit the valve, making all the noise.
I think it's possible that if it got over-tightened it could have pulled outside the silencer box. The rubber gasket is very soft, so hopefully that is the case. I just reacted to the description of how the motor sounded. Loud bangs and sudden engine cuts signal bad things in the top end. It would be worth making sure nothing DID get in there. A mechanic would need to take all those things off to do a valve check so maybe that's the safest bet.
__________________
"Your bike is too heavy" www.motolithium.com TWITTER
herrhelmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 01:24 AM   #1577
bout-time
n00b
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, Australia
Oddometer: 6
Thanks tmotten and sellmeyer too. That photo helps in that is shows how it SHOULD look. The bolt I found caught between the engine and frame has the two steel washers and large thick rubber washer, but thats all. The thinner rubber ring on the right must be the flange of the 'wellnut' (I looked up wellnut on the 650.com site and they are a long, mostly rubber nut with a flange at one end and an intergral steel bit at the other end which has the thread, so when done up with a bolt the long rubber centre gets squished into a thicker shape which cannot pull through the hole in the air silencer). All I see on the air silencer side is a hole in the plastic, maybe 12mm. I'm going to take off the "throttle valve stub" next, which should allow me to see if the nut has fallen down there. If so, SOMEONE will be taking the head off. Oh something else, which may be related, I found a blown 10amp fuse. My manual doesn't mention a 10amp because I think it is for earlier Dakars.
bout-time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 03:17 AM   #1578
tmotten
Lefthand ride Dutchy
 
tmotten's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary
Oddometer: 2,454
I had to google what a wellnut was, but it makes sense now. Still weird how that flange made it's way through.

tmotten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 05:27 AM   #1579
dang
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Westport or Olympia WA
Oddometer: 460
Well, the good news is that the thing we believe may have been sucked into your engine is encased in rubber. Let's cross our fingers that may have protected things somewhat on it's journey.

I gotta say your attitude about dealing with it so far is really good. I know shit happens but I rarely handle it so graciously.
dang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 11:35 AM   #1580
sellmeyer
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Aspen, Colorado USA
Oddometer: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by bout-time
Thanks tmotten and sellmeyer too. That photo helps in that is shows how it SHOULD look. The bolt I found caught between the engine and frame has the two steel washers and large thick rubber washer, but thats all. The thinner rubber ring on the right must be the flange of the 'wellnut' (I looked up wellnut on the 650.com site and they are a long, mostly rubber nut with a flange at one end and an intergral steel bit at the other end which has the thread, so when done up with a bolt the long rubber centre gets squished into a thicker shape which cannot pull through the hole in the air silencer). All I see on the air silencer side is a hole in the plastic, maybe 12mm. I'm going to take off the "throttle valve stub" next, which should allow me to see if the nut has fallen down there. If so, SOMEONE will be taking the head off. Oh something else, which may be related, I found a blown 10amp fuse. My manual doesn't mention a 10amp because I think it is for earlier Dakars.
Typically when those well nuts fail, they fail to the outside, not the inside. That is to say that they get worn out and 'spin' when removing the screw holding the oil tank to the airbox...then the wellnut just gets pulled out with the screw and the oil tank. If an idiot did the last service and noticed this, AND removed the wellnut from the screw, AND reinserted it into the airbox for reassembly, he just might have pushed it through the hole while trying to insert the screw. Lots of ifs there.

Lets hope you are okay in the end.
sellmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 01:13 PM   #1581
bout-time
n00b
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, Australia
Oddometer: 6
Its confirmed! I pulled the air inlet tube off, and with a torch could see the wellnut way down against one of the two inlet valves. I got it out with a piece of hooked wire. The bad news is that the small threaded metal component of this thing is gone - smashed out and definitely inside the engine. The head will need to come off for sure.

BEWARE ALL DAKAR OWNERS IF THIS CAN HAPPEN TO SOMEONE WHO HAS OWNED A DAKAR FOR 3 DAYS, IT CAN SURELY HAPPEN TO SOMEONE ELSE. I JUST COULDN'T BE THAT UNLUCKY.

Thanks for the support during this difficult time. I hope, if the repairs go well, it will be a bonding experience for me and the bike.
bout-time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 01:30 PM   #1582
Gravel Seeker
Thomas
 
Gravel Seeker's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Dreary old Norway, dreaming of adventures past
Oddometer: 3,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by bout-time
Its confirmed! I pulled the air inlet tube off, and with a torch could see the wellnut way down against one of the two inlet valves. I got it out with a piece of hooked wire. The bad news is that the small threaded metal component of this thing is gone - smashed out and definitely inside the engine. The head will need to come off for sure.

BEWARE ALL DAKAR OWNERS IF THIS CAN HAPPEN TO SOMEONE WHO HAS OWNED A DAKAR FOR 3 DAYS, IT CAN SURELY HAPPEN TO SOMEONE ELSE. I JUST COULDN'T BE THAT UNLUCKY.

Thanks for the support during this difficult time. I hope, if the repairs go well, it will be a bonding experience for me and the bike.
Jeez Louise..... that's some fucken bad luck right there, but lucky you figured it out.

While you're in there be sure to check the valves and replace the cam chain tensioner (new improved part)

New design on the right. The old one could get stuck leaving the chain loose and making valve salad in the process
__________________
'01 F650 Dakar - modified as best I can

2005: Australia - 8 months/ 26.000 km (anti clockwise circle)
2009: Norway - 2 weeks/ 6000 km (Lindesnes to North cape)

Gravel Seekers.com

Hey !
It's the African ant eater ritual !
Gravel Seeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 02:04 PM   #1583
Cap'n Crunch
Smelly Adventurer
 
Cap'n Crunch's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Iowa, Paleozoic Plateau
Oddometer: 241
Question: protaper bars

What protaper bend fits a dakar well. I have a set of protaper bar adapters which raise the bars 3/4". How high can I go without interference of cables and hoses. '03 dakar w/ abs.
Cap'n Crunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 02:23 PM   #1584
sellmeyer
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Aspen, Colorado USA
Oddometer: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravel Seeker
While you're in there be sure to check the valves and replace the cam chain tensioner (new improved part)

New design on the right. The old one could get stuck leaving the chain loose and making valve salad in the process
FYI, my wife ran her Dakar for more than 10000 miles with only the long fat part of the tensioner...hence no spring and no plunger on the bolt side. The absence of the functioning chain tensioner never manifested itself with problems; quite the contrary. The bike ran great.

The missing piece was only discovered when valve checks were done on both bikes at the same time and hers 'felt different' during the disassembly/assembly process.

Because we bought her bike with only 6K miles aboard, it had only its 600 mile service and the 6000. A repair tech either lost the tensioner pieces during one of those services or else it wasn't ever in there.

I'm not sure there is enough slack in the timing chain to allow the cams to skip along the chain and foul timing so much that the valves are damaged.
sellmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 03:59 PM   #1585
tmotten
Lefthand ride Dutchy
 
tmotten's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary
Oddometer: 2,454
All this just reaffirms my view that you should always do you're own work. Both for yourself, AND the next owner.

Hope it works out.
tmotten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 04:54 PM   #1586
herrhelmet
A Serious Man
 
herrhelmet's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: USA West
Oddometer: 2,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by bout-time
Its confirmed! I pulled the air inlet tube off, and with a torch could see the wellnut way down against one of the two inlet valves. I got it out with a piece of hooked wire. The bad news is that the small threaded metal component of this thing is gone - smashed out and definitely inside the engine. The head will need to come off for sure.

BEWARE ALL DAKAR OWNERS IF THIS CAN HAPPEN TO SOMEONE WHO HAS OWNED A DAKAR FOR 3 DAYS, IT CAN SURELY HAPPEN TO SOMEONE ELSE. I JUST COULDN'T BE THAT UNLUCKY.

Thanks for the support during this difficult time. I hope, if the repairs go well, it will be a bonding experience for me and the bike.

If you have a flexible magnet (tiny round magnet on a long spring---home-mechanic must) take the outer spark plug out and see if you can retrieve the metal threaded insert. You'll still have to remove the head, but you'll know a bit more what to expect.
__________________
"Your bike is too heavy" www.motolithium.com TWITTER
herrhelmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 05:00 PM   #1587
Gsuv
lost
 
Gsuv's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: rancho
Oddometer: 175
well yeh

If you do not try, how do you know if you can do it? (I work on my own old pos )



Bad luck with the nut zert. especially with the internal snorkel inside the air box. ( it's made to keep water out of the motor if some gets into the air box)
I would try warranty from the last dealer to work on it,
Do you have service records?(it's an 07?)

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462089

winter sucks

Gsuv screwed with this post 02-02-2010 at 05:15 PM
Gsuv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 05:38 PM   #1588
herrhelmet
A Serious Man
 
herrhelmet's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: USA West
Oddometer: 2,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsuv
If you do not try, how do you know if you can do it? (I work on my own old pos )



Bad luck with the nut zert. especially with the internal snorkel inside the air box. ( it's made to keep water out of the motor if some gets into the air box)
I would try warranty from the last dealer to work on it,
Do you have service records?(it's an 07?)

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462089

winter sucks
+1 on that. AND great pic! Winter doesn't suck by that much. I had an old Ducati 907ie that had a lot of wear, so I chose that bike to become my mistress. Did all my own work and rode it till it had 103,000 miles on the clock --- then sold it running great... I'm a shitty mechanic but I just took my time. Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.
__________________
"Your bike is too heavy" www.motolithium.com TWITTER
herrhelmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 09:42 PM   #1589
ixab
just Aaron, really
 
ixab's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: USA, PNW, LOLKTHX
Oddometer: 377
bout-time - Be sure to send us some pictures of your valve/piston salad. I *love* looking at pictures of other people's blown up motors. It makes me feel better about all the motors I've blown up in the past

Regarding finding the the bit of metal with a magnet, all the wellnuts I've seen are rubber and brass. Not sure they make a magnet that picks up rubber or brass? l

Anyhoo, if you heard even half the racket is seems, that motor is coming apart, for sure.
__________________
Youtube - Death, Death, Everywhere!
ixab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 09:48 PM   #1590
ixab
just Aaron, really
 
ixab's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: USA, PNW, LOLKTHX
Oddometer: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by pal82
What protaper bend fits a dakar well? I have a set of protaper bar adapters which raise the bars 3/4". How high can I go without interference of cables and hoses. '03 dakar w/ abs.
Not sure about bend. I drove myself crazy looking at all the options when I was picking out something for my TE. I finally went with something that seemed about in the middle of all the options.

Are the risers you have for 7/8 or oversize bars? Do you have a p/n for the pro taper bit, and have you mounted to the BMW fork yet? I'd really like to know what replacement bars I can run in the stock mounts, or what bars/risers I can get that aren't from Tour-CHARGE-A-F*CKING-FORTUNE-Tech. And I'd rather not spend a mint getting bars altered to run the factory heated grips. I'm more than happy trashing the stock bar weight, running wires out in plain view, etc. Anyone got alternative setups they want to share?
__________________
Youtube - Death, Death, Everywhere!
ixab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014