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Old 05-27-2014, 04:41 AM   #7816
troy safari carpente
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy View Post
Time for some pics



Whoops , wrong thread
You have EXCELLENT taste in motorcycles Poppy
EDIT: This is my 1997 LC4 620 (640 Rallye spec.) bike, owned by me from new (2003) till 2006.



At the time (around 1997 - 2001) the LC4 620/625 (EDIT: 640 typo) outpointed the XR 6.5 in every category (more grunt, better suspended, lighter and ergo's) EXCEPT for the mythical "XR's are the most maintenance free/reliable motorcycle that god put wind into" argument... that is REPEATEDLY the aspect that XR's (of all denominations and sizes) are warmly remembered for.

So there must be something to it, I guess...? But all three of the various LC4's I've owned have been ultra dependable, despite a high ratio of competition usage combined with general trail/offroad miles.

"Reliability" is always the percieved result of maintenance interval divided by mileage x riding intensity. In that way, I've always considered the XR as being a good proposition... aguably the KTM may require a touch more TLC at times, but it rewards with performance and handling in return, if that's what the owner is after.

I sincerely wish that HONDA had continued to develop the XR 6.5 model, as that is the market where viable good performance alternatives from japan are most noticeably absent today.
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troy safari carpente screwed with this post 05-27-2014 at 07:50 AM
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Old 05-27-2014, 04:48 AM   #7817
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
the mythical "XR's are the most maintenance free/reliable motorcycle that god put wind into" argument....
Hey troy, remember the Xr 250 re/f
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Old 05-27-2014, 04:56 AM   #7818
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Hey troy, remember the Xr 250 re/f



Oh, no... hang on... it was the 1983 double pumper XR 350 I was thinking about...
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:02 AM   #7819
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Hey troy, remember the Xr 250 re/f
Was that the twin carb model?
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:05 AM   #7820
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First radial four valves collapsing model. The start of the dreaded honda unrelability slide....closely followed by the early vf750..not a good era to be a honda dealer.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:16 AM   #7821
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First radial four valves collapsing model. The start of the dreaded honda unrelability slide....closely followed by the early vf750..not a good era to be a honda dealer.
Yep remember the RFVC written on the side of the head. Was it the RC that had twin carbs, I can remember one of them did. Also remember pulling a XR 500 apart and it had reeds.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:19 AM   #7822
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125 posts and he's already put troy on the ignore list

( xr 350 had twin carbs, Oh, and yamaha tt250)
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:21 AM   #7823
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Now reeds? Husky 510 /610 oil ...what were you saying earlier about simplcity?
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:22 AM   #7824
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125 posts and he's already put troy on the ignore list

( xr 350 had twin carbs, Oh, and yamaha tt250)
Some folk just learn faster than others...


... hey...?! Who said that... I thought I had myself on ignore...?
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"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:32 AM   #7825
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125 posts and he's already put troy on the ignore list

( xr 350 had twin carbs, Oh, and yamaha tt250)
I take it that what he meant by double pumper. I never really had a xr 350, had a xl 350. But now I think of it it might of been a XR200.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:37 AM   #7826
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Now reeds? Husky 510 /610 oil ...what were you saying earlier about simplcity?
Yeah I thought it was strange for a four stroke, we didn't put them back in. It was my mates bike, I also had a XR500 at the time and it didn't have them, so there you go simplicity.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:45 AM   #7827
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hey TCS, just wondering how many rounds of the thumper nats this superior bike you speak of won? and what about finke's?

and that also covers how they were superior to the wr crf and ktm 450etc of the time as Michael Byrne had the no1 plate sorted in the 2000 thumper nats series

I also recall honda using it in the 2000 250cc mx championship byrne took 2nd place beaten by Andrew mcfarlane
how many times did ktm win the baja when the XRR was in production?

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
You have EXCELLENT taste in motorcycles Poppy



At the time (around 1997 - 2001) the LC4 620/640 outpointed the XR 6.5 in every category (more grunt, better suspended, lighter and ergo's) EXCEPT for the mythical "XR's are the most maintenance free/reliable motorcycle that god put wind into" argument... that is REPEATEDLY the aspect that XR's (of all denominations and sizes) are warmly remembered for.

So there must be something to it, I guess...? But all three of the various LC4's I've owned have been ultra dependable, despite a high ratio of competition usage combined with general trail/offroad miles.

"Reliability" is always the percieved result of maintenance interval divided by mileage x riding intensity. In that way, I've always considered the XR as being a good proposition... aguably the KTM may require a touch more TLC at times, but it rewards with performance and handling in return, if that's what the owner is after.

I sincerely wish that HONDA had continued to develop the XR 6.5 model, as that is the market where viable good performance alternatives from japan are most noticeably absent today.
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:21 AM   #7828
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There's always this part of the equation to consider...

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Originally Posted by ditchwitch650 View Post
hey TCS, just wondering how many rounds of the thumper nats this superior bike you speak of won? and what about finke's?

and that also covers how they were superior to the wr crf and ktm 450etc of the time as Michael Byrne had the no1 plate sorted
Bike + RIDER

By the same token, I could ask you how many 500cc + FIM MX round's an XR 6.5 has won...? compared to say Husky (Jacky Martens), Vertamatti/Husaberg (Joel Smets) and KTM 4 strokes (Daryl King) against the likes of the firebreathing 500cc two strokes... before they were banned...?

Yeah, the thumper nationals was a unique and awesome series - specifically for 4 strokes, brought to you and produced by - a cartel of folks with a vested interest in promoting... waht? Yeah YOU GUESSED IT!? FOURSTROKES

I mean, if ever there was going to be a racing format that was up the alley of mildly to wild modified big bore japanese fourbanger trailbikes, then for sure it was going to be the wide open and grassy expanses of the natural terrain (no MX jumps or doubles/triples to deal with) tracks of the Thumper Nat's series events.

Couple the fact that GB and Co. spent duffelbags full of moola on mod's and trick bits for the various Ballards/HRC 630, and XR 680 creations that they built specifically for the thumper nats and put the best riders they could muster (Belly and Byrner as I recall?)... then yeah, the XR garnered some great results in the Thumper nats... just as they did at Safari... No argument from me there - read the rulebook, build the best tool for the job and put the best rider on it... hard combination to beat alright. But they are hardly showroom spec XR's.

As far as the Thumper Nat's goes (seeing as you brought it up), I also recall that the Cunningham brothers cleaned up one year on standard issue Husky 610's coutesy of Hans Applegren imports. Also some big efforts put in on KTM's from (amongst others) Jeff Leisk, Andy Haydon and (one of or both?) the King brothers? So it was far from being a Ballard's XR's Only whitewash... even if the format was made for them...

Stand by my original comment; a stock XR 650R in it's day was not at the same level as a stock 625 SXC, or FE501 or TE610 when it come to enduro performance... And a TC610 or 540 SXF was something yet again.

Throw enough money and logistics at (almost) any bike, and it can be made a winner... the XR and HONDA US made a tradition of dominating baja in just that manner... and as a result HONDA has acquired loyal followers the globe over as a result of race victories like Baja, Safari, thumper nats etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy John
"There is a difference between constructive criticism and plain rudeness."


Quote:
Originally Posted by zenjen
"It's like deja vu all over again."

Quote:
Originally posted by PBee
"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:34 AM   #7829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
(no MX jumps or doubles/triples to deal with) tracks of the Thumper Nat's series events.



Stand by my original comment; a stock XR 650R in it's day was not at the same level as a stock 625 SXC, or FE501 or TE610 when it come to enduro performance... And a TC610 or 540 SXF was something yet again.

Throw enough money and logistics at (almost) any bike, and it can be made a winner...
1st quoted section
it took 2nd outright in the outoor mx series 2000 the Andrew Mc Farlane on a kx250 with chad reed 3rd on a yz250 pretty sure the had mx jumps inn the series they sure did at coolum track

2nd quoted section
here's a lift from the ghr page

"That year, Honda Australia were seeking a team to take the newly released XR650 to top level in competition. GHR Honda were selected to orchestrate the campaign, and managed development of the XR650 rally platform and race team to secure 2nd place in the Australian Safari in the same year. Other noteworthy results for 2001 were a clean sweep of the podium with 1st, 2nd and 3rd outright in the Riverina Cross Country Rally, and a 1st and 4th outright in the Sunraysia Cross Country Rally.
2002 brought another solid podium finish in the Australian Safari with second place, and 1st outright in both the Western Plains Cross Country Rally and Sunraysia Cross Country Rally.
GHR’s focus on rally racing intensified in 2003 by securing 2nd and 3rd place in the Australian Safari. GHR were also victorious in the Condo 750 Rally – a coming of age for the team, with Glenn having won the Condo himself in his own days as a rider.
2004 was a significant year on a number of fronts. Honda stepped into the water-cooled 250 arena for the first time with the new CRF250X. This new machine was a massive break from Honda’s air-cooled XR250, and GHR was selected to manage the Australian launch and media materials.
In their fourth consecutive year running Honda Australia’s Safari program, with over 80,000km of competitive rally racing without a single mechanical DNF, GHR had a breakthrough victory with the XR650."
is that enough enduro performance for you at the time KTM wasn't beating it?

3rd quoted section
Ktm were splashing around the cash to gain market share at the time too

fyi i have riden a 625 many times and my brother has a 640 adv with 100,000k's on it and i have ddone most of the repairs to it prolink failures elec problems etc etc but his G/f always smiling when she been for a ride on the back of it :)
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:51 AM   #7830
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I see we've changed tack...

I might be misstaken, but I don't recall either the XR600 or Xr 650R ever winning Finke...? CR 500... yeah multiple times... and more recently the CRF 450... but I have been away a lot and may have missed it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchwitch650 View Post
hey TCS, just wondering how many rounds of the thumper nats this superior bike you speak of won? and what about finke's?


how many times did ktm win the baja when the XRR was in production?
Counterpoint: How many times has an XR won the DAKAR while the LC4 has been in production...? The answer is never... and it's totally irelevant as a way of making a point in any case.

Just as HONDA never launched a serious factory attempt at DAKAR between the years 1988 and 2013, so too were KTM largely in unattedance at the Baja races during the HONDA US/Johnny Campbell reign in Baja.

Not taking anything away from JCR... in their day they had the best team, best backing, best logistics, riders and by all means - the best prepared bikes. and they WON... but to say they beat anyone else, is by and large, bending of the truth. In many cases they were racing themselves (you've all heard of the Honda A, B and sometimes even C teams at the Baja races).

Most of the competition through the late 90's and thru 2000's came in the form of well credentialled privateers on various brands of bike (but often also Honda, given the pit support advantages the manufacturer provided). Certainly after Kawasaki pulled out in the mid 90's - after Danny Hammels tragic death - there were NO other factory teams supporting the Baja races. In that regard Honda at Baja post 1995 to 2012, was a bit like KTM at dakar 2002 to 2012... if you're the ONLY factory racing, with a budget and team to match, it's pretty hard to get knocked of the perch when you lead the field with 10 deep top number of entrants.

Sure... KTM turned up sporadically a couple of occassions at various times over the years, at first with the LC4 620 and DXC 540's... but never at the level that HONDA threw at the B1K. When finally KTM did get serious, and backed in the last couple of years the efforts of Kurt caselli and Ivan ramirez... then they took the fight to JCR HONDA (and managed to win a Baja 500). In fact THR Kawasaki lifted their game to a point where some of the baja races the last few years have been true "three way" manufacturer battles... the first time in decades!

it's just a shame that KC's departure from this life at the B1K last november, cut this interesting escalation of competitive spirit, short.

When push comes to shove, race results are NOT an indication of the best bike... they are an indication of the best race team (including staff, bike and rider).

The XR 650 is a good bike, that has had it's share of great teams and riders on it.
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Quote:
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Quote:
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"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."

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