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Old 03-25-2009, 09:35 AM   #76
TedShred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanker
I gave Griz a pass but you're not getting one. It's moron's like you who use these pages to spout tough-guy shit hiding behind your keyboard. I have forgotten more about motorcycles than you will ever know ass hat. You were breast-feeding when I was working on right-shift Sportsters and Pentons with points (do you know what those are?). Go back to your Keystone lights my friend.....
Give me a break. That's the best you can do? Name calling?

It's obvious to most of us that the cams were cast that way and yet you still insist on being the expert and telling us we're all wrong.

I've sent some of the pics to an acquaintance of mine who designs K-Bike engines for BMW AG in Munich. If he can shed some light on the design of the cams I will share with the collective here.

Until then, GOOD RIDE YOUR BIKE!!!
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:05 AM   #77
Bruce.B
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Closure?

I went to the ROTAX site via the link provided here. Found the Contact Us page and sent an e-Mail asking about the notches cast into the camshaft. I included Finn's pic of the cam. I got an immediate reply from Mr. Michael Kovacs of BRP (Bombardier Recreational Products which is the parent of ROTAX):

Dear Mr. Bowman,

The cast-in notches (as shown in your image) is for lubrication of the contact surface of the camshaft lobe and finger followers.

In a certain position of the camshafts pressure oil sprays from the bearing in the cylinder head into the cast-in notches (via a small slot in axial direction) of the camshaft. This oil then lubricates the contact surface of the cam lobes and finger followers!

Hope this description is the information you require.

For further information please contact your BMW dealer.

Best regards
Michael Kovacs

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bruce Bowman [mailto:bruce@rabbit-rabbit.org]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2009 07:03
An: Krenmair, Gisela
Betreff: Rotax Type 804 Engine

I believe the subject engine type is used in the BMW F650/F800GS motorcycles. Hopefully you can provide some information about the camshafts used on these engines. It would help settle a great deal of arguing on the ADVrider.com forum.

One owner has recently completed an 8,000+ mile tour of the southwestern US & Baja California. While the shop had the cam covers removed he noticed what to him appeared to be chunks of metal missing halfway across each cam lobe. Later we noticed these "notches" are clearly shown on the spare parts drawing. I presumed the notch was to accomodate cam follower rotation but later learned the head uses finger-type followers which don't rotate. So, before there's bloodshed, I hope you can have someone at your facility briefly explain the purpose of these cast-in notches (I'm sure it's a very simple explanation)!

Thanks for your help-

Bruce Bowman
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

ps- I apologize for the image quality. It was taken under difficult conditions.








[IMG]cid:{CF1F4E58-01B0-42B1-8EE6-CCFCCCB380BD}/F800GS-Cam.JPG[/IMG]
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:14 AM   #78
TedShred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce.B
I went to the ROTAX site via the link provided here. Found the Contact Us page and sent an e-Mail asking about the notches cast into the camshaft. I included Finn's pic of the cam. I got an immediate reply from Mr. Michael Kovacs of BRP (Bombardier Recreational Products which is the parent of ROTAX):

Dear Mr. Bowman,

The cast-in notches (as shown in your image) is for lubrication of the contact surface of the camshaft lobe and finger followers.

In a certain position of the camshafts pressure oil sprays from the bearing in the cylinder head into the cast-in notches (via a small slot in axial direction) of the camshaft. This oil then lubricates the contact surface of the cam lobes and finger followers!

Hope this description is the information you require.

For further information please contact your BMW dealer.

Best regards
Michael Kovacs

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bruce Bowman [mailto:bruce@rabbit-rabbit.org]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2009 07:03
An: Krenmair, Gisela
Betreff: Rotax Type 804 Engine

I believe the subject engine type is used in the BMW F650/F800GS motorcycles. Hopefully you can provide some information about the camshafts used on these engines. It would help settle a great deal of arguing on the ADVrider.com forum.

One owner has recently completed an 8,000+ mile tour of the southwestern US & Baja California. While the shop had the cam covers removed he noticed what to him appeared to be chunks of metal missing halfway across each cam lobe. Later we noticed these "notches" are clearly shown on the spare parts drawing. I presumed the notch was to accomodate cam follower rotation but later learned the head uses finger-type followers which don't rotate. So, before there's bloodshed, I hope you can have someone at your facility briefly explain the purpose of these cast-in notches (I'm sure it's a very simple explanation)!

Thanks for your help-

Bruce Bowman
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

ps- I apologize for the image quality. It was taken under difficult conditions.








[IMG]cid:{CF1F4E58-01B0-42B1-8EE6-CCFCCCB380BD}/F800GS-Cam.JPG[/IMG]
I call BS!! You're both wrong. There is something seriously wrong that motor and it's gonna grenade itself any day. I would park it at the dealer and camp out there until those assholes give you a new bike or your money back!!!!


J/K of course. Thanks for taking the time to find the FACTS and share with the uninformed masses. Now we can all go back to riding our bikes which is what it's really all about (or should be)


BTW - How much ya wanna bet someone is gonna pipe up and argue with your post and still find fault with BMW/Rotax/Bombardier for a faulty or substandard design on a $14k bike??? I'll buy ya a beer if I'm wrong
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:43 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedShred
BTW - How much ya wanna bet someone is gonna pipe up and argue with your post and still find fault with BMW/Rotax/Bombardier for a faulty or substandard design on a $14k bike??? I'll buy ya a beer if I'm wrong
That's a suckers bet Ted!!! Could you imagine if Bert Munro had seen this rubbish?
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:03 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bmwfan
Could you imagine if Bert Munro had seen this rubbish?
He probably would have just given up and gone back to Australia NOT!!
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:15 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedShred
He probably would have just given up and gone back to Australia NOT!!
Or better yet, New Zealand.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:26 PM   #82
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That's cool that they got back to you, and so quickly. I don't own an 800GS, but i think they're the tits. I fancy them even more after reading such a solid answer from their cust service.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:41 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthroamer
Wow! I just read this thread from the beginning. You guys sure take a rough road to enlightenment.


I think the casting voids are supposed to be there. Just look at the exhaust cam for the same thing. If it's there, the microfiche is right.

How can a oil leak be a huge problem to repair?
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:46 PM   #84
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce.B
I went to the ROTAX site via the link provided here. Found the Contact Us page and sent an e-Mail asking about the notches cast into the camshaft. I included Finn's pic of the cam. I got an immediate reply from Mr. Michael Kovacs of BRP (Bombardier Recreational Products which is the parent of ROTAX):

Dear Mr. Bowman,

The cast-in notches (as shown in your image) is for lubrication of the contact surface of the camshaft lobe and finger followers.

In a certain position of the camshafts pressure oil sprays from the bearing in the cylinder head into the cast-in notches (via a small slot in axial direction) of the camshaft. This oil then lubricates the contact surface of the cam lobes and finger followers!

Hope this description is the information you require.

For further information please contact your BMW dealer.

Best regards
Michael Kovacs

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bruce Bowman [mailto:bruce@rabbit-rabbit.org]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2009 07:03
An: Krenmair, Gisela
Betreff: Rotax Type 804 Engine

I believe the subject engine type is used in the BMW F650/F800GS motorcycles. Hopefully you can provide some information about the camshafts used on these engines. It would help settle a great deal of arguing on the ADVrider.com forum.

One owner has recently completed an 8,000+ mile tour of the southwestern US & Baja California. While the shop had the cam covers removed he noticed what to him appeared to be chunks of metal missing halfway across each cam lobe. Later we noticed these "notches" are clearly shown on the spare parts drawing. I presumed the notch was to accomodate cam follower rotation but later learned the head uses finger-type followers which don't rotate. So, before there's bloodshed, I hope you can have someone at your facility briefly explain the purpose of these cast-in notches (I'm sure it's a very simple explanation)!

Thanks for your help-

Bruce Bowman
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

ps- I apologize for the image quality. It was taken under difficult conditions.








[IMG]cid:{CF1F4E58-01B0-42B1-8EE6-CCFCCCB380BD}/F800GS-Cam.JPG[/IMG]
Again, we're beating a dead horse here. This response is straight from BRP/Rotax. Can you guys not read??? The voids are for lubrication. We all need to cool off and drop this subject. The voids on the cam are not defects. This thread needs to be nuked if there are going to be people who won't believe the parts diagram and an email directly from Rotax.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:56 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps
Penton




Points




Awesome pics, I have no idea where you could have found these. Thanks for posting them.
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:25 PM   #86
TedShred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanker
Awesome pics, I have no idea where you could have found these. Thanks for posting them.

That's all ya got eh tough guy??

How about "oops guess I was wrong, sorry for talkin shit"
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:57 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Again, we're beating a dead horse here. This response is straight from BRP/Rotax. Can you guys not read??? The voids are for lubrication. We all need to cool off and drop this subject. The voids on the cam are not defects. This thread needs to be nuked if there are going to be people who won't believe the parts diagram and an email directly from Rotax.

The voids are for balancing also
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:20 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by * SHAG *
The voids are for balancing also
That makes sense.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:40 AM   #89
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Voids

Now I feel real silly for filling them with JB Weld...
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:12 AM   #90
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I had the same prediction of disaster after seeing the missing chunks. Even if they were only on the non contact base circle portion, it would indicate a terrible camshaft core got thru the system. Like the other old pros, I knew it was that -until- I saw the diagrams and read that "all the lobes had the missing material". The slot opening in the middle (red arrows) between the "gouges" is the oil feed hole from the hollow, pressurized oil filled camshaft. Look at the cam bearing in the cylinderhead and you will see a pocket/groove that precisely times the camlobe's lubricating shot of oil. It's essentially a rotary valve that connects the pressurized oil with the directional "voids" just once, very briefly, every camshaft turn. The brilliance of this design is that it only shoots out the right amount of cooling and lubrication onto the opening camlobe ramp just before that ramp starts to bear on the follower. That's unlike older designs that put a small oil feed hole in the face of the camlobe's opening ramp, which continuously, wastefully shot excess oil all over the inside of the valvecover. Extra cooling, yes, but at high rpm's that removes a larger portion of needed oil from the sump/tank and aspirates hot oil often right near the crankcase breather vapor/liquid separator built into the valve cover.

Here we thought we were looking at sloppy negligence, when actually it's a brilliant design, although visually disturbing and cosmetically crude. If Ducati or even Yamaha used this timed lobe lube method, you could bet your hanging pair it would have been precicely machined, visually stunning and nobody would have gotten so bent-outta-shape. Maybe, besides being cheaper to manufacture, they decided or found the void casting's natural skin made it stronger. Those gawking BMW tech's should have had SOME knowledge or service dept feedback of the new F800's camshaft anomalies.

CycleRob screwed with this post 03-26-2009 at 11:21 AM
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