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Old 11-08-2014, 07:07 PM   #1
Effisland OP
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Fellow wrenching wretches, help diagnose problem?

OK, I have a recent issue on my F800GS and I think I know what it probably is, but I'd like some confirmation.

Symptom: Sounds like it's running on 1 cylinder, stalls, sometimes 2nd cylinder fires. Low power.
How long: Since changed oil, also got gas from non-regular source (Husky)

Alright, I changed the oil, and accidentally overfilled it - dipstick showed past the max, how much more in quantity, not sure. Ran it around town, no problem, figured it wasn't an issue.

Next day, had to take a long highway drive. I noticed a problem when approaching 120 kms/hr, started sputtering, would go away if I kept speed lower and no high revs. Didn't stop or turn around, was heading to hospital, uncle on deathbed (what other reason would keep me going? Not too many. I crossed my fingers and hoped it would make the drive, 1.5 hours). Made it ok, idled fine and ran fine up to around 120 kms/hr.

Filled up at gas station, not my normal brand, Mohawk gas, high in methanol. However it drove back alright but same issue as before, so I kept speed below 120. Seemed to be worse powering up hills, it would falter and sputter when under load. Made it home.

Today, figured time to reduce amount of oil. Rechecked dipstick, was beyond max. Pumped out about 1 litre, checked level, was barely showing on dipstick. Put in about 400 ml, got it up to the max line. So I figure I had about 600 ml over or so.

Took it out, this time, faltering sputtering around 80 kms/hr. Went shopping, it got worse. Soon it sounded like only one cylinder was firing. Stalled out on deceleration. Sounded like shit, barely idling. When I parked it, would barely accelerate without feathering the clutch.

I poured in some methel hydrate and topped up gas at a Chevron. Drove home, no difference.

Diagnosis?

I don't know what happens inside an engine when there is too much oil. Does it increase oil pressure? Blow past the rings? Back up air flow intake past the valves?

I'm guessing it could be:
- fouled plugs
- blown seal
- oily wet air filter
- crapola gas

It takes a while to take it down the the spark plugs on this bike, that will probably be my first step in addition to checking the air filter.

Any other thoughts? Besides being stupid yadda yadda...would appreciate any advice thx
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Old 11-08-2014, 08:25 PM   #2
anotherguy
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A.)How many miles?
B.)How old are the plugs?
C.)Have you looked in the airbox since overfilling oil?----Many times engines will simply pump the excess oil into the airbox via crankcase ventilation fouling filter and possibly plugs
D.)If the bike is high mileage have you changed out the fuel filter?
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Old 11-08-2014, 09:00 PM   #3
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Sounds unrelated to the oil level. Overfilling with oil will often blow the excess out the crank case vent. Not sure where that ends on the F800, but should be around the air box. Might want to check the air box for oil.

The problem really sounds like fuel starvation. From a bad fuel pump or clogged filter.
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Old 11-08-2014, 09:09 PM   #4
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Doesn't seem like oil problem. Injector? Why don't you move this to the Parallel forum, may get better views.
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:45 PM   #5
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When oil is greatly overfilled it usually gets whipped into a froth by the crankshaft pork chops. Said frothy oil no longer is able to be pumped properly and engine is internally damaged. Not saying you are at. This point but I have seen that happen to cars where oil was not drained during oil change and then refilled again with proper amount. (10 qts in engine)
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:56 PM   #6
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A.)How many miles? 38,000 kms (24,000 miles)
B.)How old are the plugs? Original
C.)Have you looked in the airbox since overfilling oil?----Many times engines will simply pump the excess oil into the airbox via crankcase ventilation fouling filter and possibly plugs Have not checked yet
D.)If the bike is high mileage have you changed out the fuel filter? No never, hate to say it but don't know where it's hooked in. Gas tank on the f800gs is below the seat. Not sure if there's an output from the engine in the air box.

I figure on opening it up tomorrow. Likely plugs fouled from excess??

Also could be fuel filter, it felt like it was being choked at speed, might have been fuel starvation.

Last time it was faltering, something I hadn't experienced on a bike before. This one is fuel injected, so that is also unique.

I thought I could hear the two pistons hitting top dead centre, sounded like a clank or slapping sound before it stalled out. This was slowly exiting from a stop sign. I started it - the bike always starts - then revved it, and then slipped the clutch slowly so the revs would stay up. It still sounded bad, likely firing on one cylinder only.
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Old 11-08-2014, 11:42 PM   #7
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The F800 is a semi dry sump. You are suppose to check the oil after the engine reaches operating temperature and the fan comes on twice. It will read low if you check it cold. Over filling can blow gaskets, crush bearings, and damage rings.

The only fuel filter is basically just a screen that is part of the fuel pump.

I would guess it sounds like an injector problem.
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorebutt View Post
The F800 is a semi dry sump. You are suppose to check the oil after the engine reaches operating temperature and the fan comes on twice. It will read low if you check it cold. Over filling can blow gaskets, crush bearings, and damage rings.

The only fuel filter is basically just a screen that is part of the fuel pump.

I would guess it sounds like an injector problem.
After I changed plugs, oil, gas it ran fine for an hour or more, then back to the same old stalling. Will run through some injector cleaner, hope it works. I don't understand how the injectors work, not sure how they could clear up then plug up in such short a time.
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:56 PM   #9
sorebutt
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You could have multiple issues so you need to work on one at a time.

I suspect either the fuel pump or injectors. Run a couple tanks of gas with lots of injector cleaner. If that doesn't work I would pull the fuel pump and check out the screen on the bottom. Clean it if it has gunk on it. After that go to the injectors.

You should have an error code stored in the ECM. You can save time by taking it to a dealer to read the codes. That should send you in the right direction.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:57 PM   #10
Effisland OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorebutt View Post
You could have multiple issues so you need to work on one at a time.

I suspect either the fuel pump or injectors. Run a couple tanks of gas with lots of injector cleaner. If that doesn't work I would pull the fuel pump and check out the screen on the bottom. Clean it if it has gunk on it. After that go to the injectors.

You should have an error code stored in the ECM. You can save time by taking it to a dealer to read the codes. That should send you in the right direction.
Ran it with STP injector cleaner for a good hour. It stumbles on idle, cuts out and stalls. I can keep it running with the revs up and slipping the clutch but this can't be good. Never took out the fuel pump. To remove it you need to drain the gas first? My DVD manual is useless now that I'm running Linux, any pics out there?
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:21 PM   #11
sorebutt
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Go to the G Spot / 800 twins and do a search. Someone has posted how to do it with pictures.
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:31 PM   #12
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Does it have "stick coils " on the spark plugs ?

May want to check them.


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Old 11-21-2014, 10:09 PM   #13
Bayner
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I'm in Penticton, are you anywhere near, I could help you out...
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Old 11-22-2014, 11:38 AM   #14
Effisland OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayner View Post
I'm in Penticton, are you anywhere near, I could help you out...
Thanks for the offer. I'm in Squamish. Nice day today, I'll probably take the bike out and run more gas through on the off chance that the injector cleaner may do something - never found those 'miracle cures' to work but giving it a chance before taking it apart again.

I'm also assuming that one of the 'coil sticks' attaching to the spark plug isn't a problem, though it could be since the bike runs like the problem is only with one cylinder. My assumption based on the premise that if the coil stick failed it would completely fail and not go on and off. With no bike movement the idle goes from good to rough...

Could be that a single injector semi plugged but likely not the fuel pump otherwise both would be cutting out. I've run the bike on the highway etc and so far it runs without completely stranding me.

The other weird thing is that after the last time I took everything apart to change the plugs it ran great for a day or so, then started crapping out again. If it had been the injector it would not have ran well. And likely not the fuel pump either, can't see it fixing itself for a day then going back to crap.

One thing I didn't do as someone recommended was remove the ball from the fuel tank vent check valve. I cleared a cloud of aluminum dust because it wasn't passing any air. Will test this by running the bike with the filler lid open.
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Old 11-22-2014, 12:54 PM   #15
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I'm not familiar with your bike, but have been around the block once or twice dealing with FI. First thought is to scan for codes as previously suggested. If that isn't an option, check/replace the spark plugs again and see if there is any difference. Also report on their condition. Pics may help. Also check the temp sensor(s), O2 sensor, and TPS readings. Crap fuel can foul an O2 sensor pretty quickly. A bad TPS can confuse the computer and cause strange running.

If you could provide more specific details on how the bike is running, that would help with our guessing. Cold starts and running? Warm? Light throttle vs WOT operation?

Good luck!
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