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Old 03-27-2009, 12:52 PM   #31
eakins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless
Depending on your state, you can make a WR 450 street legal quite easily....besides adding blinkers, etc the bike is really set up well for street use.... Im jelous of the 450's and electric start though!
true enough in colorado (but even here that is changing so factory street legal is the key for the future) but still no FI 450s yet and that is what most desire.

would also like to see the R1 engine technology in the 450 so it's great for high-speed hiway use. the off-road 450 does not use that technology.

the ultimate would be a 450 twin (1/2 an R1, yami makes the motor already for snowmobile market) dual sport utilizing the off-road 450 frame technology for weigh savings. that ds would kick every other ds on the markets butt.
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins
true enough in colorado (but even here that is changing so factory street legal is the key for the future) but still no FI 450s yet and that is what most desire.

would also like to see the R1 engine technology in the 450 so it's great for high-speed hiway use. the off-road 450 does not use that technology.

the ultimate would be a 450 twin (1/2 an R1, yami makes the motor already for snowmobile market) dual sport utilizing the off-road 450 frame technology for weigh savings. that ds would kick every other ds on the markets butt.
That'd be a cool bike, but it sure wouldn't be my ultimate. A 450 inline twin will have a weight penalty compared to a single. The frame wouldn't make that much of a difference, and it also brings up the point - what if you just dropped in a good, modern single in the same frame?

I agree it could be a cool bike though.

Surely the 250 wouldn't need all that much retooling to make a 450? Or looking at it the other way, why not take the WR450F and give it a milder cam? I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
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Old 03-28-2009, 08:37 AM   #33
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I don't think a 450 twin would be the way to go, it would weigh more, have less low end grunt, be harder to find traction and would need to be revved higher to go anywhere, mfg costs would also likely be higher.

btw everyone but yamaha makes an FI 450... so not sure what the comment about there not being any FI 450's yet is about
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:02 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikePilot
I don't think a 450 twin would be the way to go, it would weigh more, have less low end grunt, be harder to find traction and would need to be revved higher to go anywhere, mfg costs would also likely be higher.
It would be an interesting experiment, though. I agree with your list of objections, but let's think about what they would really mean.

1. weight -- yes, a twin would tend to weigh more than a single, but there could be some savings in muffler size and gear size that would offset some of the weight of the additional components.

2. less low end -- OK, probably less than a single of equal displacement, but twice as much as the current WR250R, which many would find adequate.

3. less traction -- I agree, unless you made it a twingle (both cylinders firing together) which would give away any hope of saving weight on gears and muffler.

4. higher engine speed -- again, higher than a single of equal displacement but you'd have twice as much power at every rpm as the WR250R -- that would be enough to obliterate a DR650 or KLR650.

5. higher cost -- yes, but an inline twin is fairly cheap to manufacture. Most of the additional cost comes from the extra piston, rod, bore, etc. And if they could use off the shelf components and save R&D and tooling costs it might be a wash.

Bikepilot, everything you said is true, and the final result would definitely not be the street legal WR450 that a lot of people want, but I think it would be a very interesting dual sport/adventure bike. It could have the power and smoothness to eat up interstate miles and still be lighter than the current crop of 650 singles.
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Old 03-28-2009, 11:43 AM   #35
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Montesa VR is right - it would make a silly-good dual-sport bike, probably better than the XT660Z, and that's exactly why they won't bother. And for everybody crying for a Euro or Aussie street-legal WR450F, it's a US-spec WR450F with lights, turn signals, and a mirror. The DOT requirements to import this as a street-legal bike make it too much of a hassle for Yamaha - so they don't. You, OTOH, can probably put a horn, a stoplight, and a mirror on a new WR450 and get it licensed a lot easier & quicker than Yamaha building a new WR500R or federalizing the XT660R/X/Z series for the US.
Or, just pony up & buy a 450EXC.
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Old 03-28-2009, 11:52 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikePilot
I don't think a 450 twin would be the way to go, it would weigh more, have less low end grunt, be harder to find traction and would need to be revved higher to go anywhere, mfg costs would also likely be higher.

btw everyone but yamaha makes an FI 450... so not sure what the comment about there not being any FI 450's yet is about
is guess that makes sense, but why does yami use it there sled (sorry it's a 500)
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/pr...6/0/specs.aspx
when the arguement a thumper is better and lighter (sleds always want to be lighter)
that motor puts out 80hp, but maybe it has to be revved to all high hell and maybe that is bad in the dirt

so i was talking about a yami 450 FI bike, which doesn't exist.
also the other 3 450 FI bikes are MX/track bikes NOT woods/western bikes.
the bike i'm talking about does not exist yet.
i like what yamaha produces these day and hope they are the mfg i buy.
those other MX bikes are useless to me.
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:52 PM   #37
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A sled motor is a very different thing. There's no worry about hook-up based on power-pulse spacing, there's very little concern about low rpm power and there's more concern about peak power. Sleds are more like PWC's than motorcycles when it comes to engine parameters. The physical size restraints are also quite different.

I agree that the twin could be smooth and make a good freeway cruising machine. I was thinking about a serious off road machine though. I think the power of a good running, modern, 450+cc single would be more than most could use on a light weight, off road oriented dual sport. The bit of extra power that would come from a twin of similar displacement wouldn't be of much marginal value, but the added width and weight would be a serious detriment in my view. Of course different people may be looking for different things:)

The TE450 and almost all the euro 450 enduro bikes are FI. I suspect the KLX450 and CRF450x will be FI next year as it seems to be working out well on the MX versions fo the bikes.

BTW imho the best woods bike ever made is a MX bike with hardguards bolted on. I've been all over the front range on a CR and found it just about perfect for the task. I wouldn't rule out MX bikes too quickly. There's something to be said for to notch performance without any extra weight. Add what you need (lights to be street legal, hand guards, whatever) and you'll still be way under the weight of the factory woods bikes like the CRF-X and such.
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Old 03-28-2009, 01:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins
is guess that makes sense, but why does yami use it there sled (sorry it's a 500)
...
that motor puts out 80hp, but maybe it has to be revved to all high hell and maybe that is bad in the dirt
More power=more heat generated.

All else being equal, a sled can take advantage of more cooling than it actually needs. Given the medium it travels on and the large surface area of the heat exchangers, sleds can cope much better with heat than can a typical dirtbike. Even Aprilia's RXV/SXV 5.5 is only putting out around 70HP in factory trim.


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Old 03-29-2009, 09:04 PM   #39
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My Initial DRZ400S vs. WR250R Impressions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnberr0
Hey Gas,

What do you think of the 250 vs. your DRZ? Gotta friend pondering the switch.
OK, I can answer your question now though it's hard to wipe the grin off of my face.
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:28 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
The WR450F (same as 2T and 4T KTM EXCs since the 90s) is only sold in street legal form in Europe. Electric start, lights, key lock etc.

So the parts should be available from Yamaha dealers if they can order from Europe.
We've got them all down here as well you know! Australia may be the arse end of the world but the Euro's and the Japs know what we like/want (most of the time).
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:28 AM   #41
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test rode the wr250r a couple days ago, and was extremely impressed.

i still think they should make is a 500 twin.

edit: i hope, because then i can pick up a lightly used pre farkeled wr250r when the new hotness comes out!

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Old 09-18-2009, 11:40 AM   #42
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And there are still no actual rumors. Just fantasies.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:34 PM   #43
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Well i know its a yz450f but its efi so they're getting there just a little later than others.
http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/p...ource=pus257xq
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montesa_vr
And there are still no actual rumors. Just fantasies.
Agreed, no way Yamaha is gonna spend the money to develop a 450 version of the 250R in this financial climate. They can't just slice off a cylinder of an existing motor the way they did with the 250R.
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:27 PM   #45
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More info on the 2010 YZ450F, would really like a WR version of this

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/08sep...2010yz450f.htm
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