ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-21-2009, 04:54 PM   #46
FriedDuck
Why die all tensed up?
 
FriedDuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Oddometer: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by montesa_vr
It would be an interesting experiment, though. I agree with your list of objections, but let's think about what they would really mean.

1. weight -- yes, a twin would tend to weigh more than a single, but there could be some savings in mufler size and gear size that would offset some of the weight of the additional components.

2. less low end -- OK, probably less than a single of equal displacement, but twice as much as the current WR250R, which many would find adequate.

3. less traction -- I agree, unless you made it a twingle (both cylinders firing together) which would give away any hope of saving weight on gears and muffler.

4. higher engine speed -- again, higher than a single of equal displacement but you'd have twice as much power at every rpm as the WR250R -- that would be enough to obliterate a DR650 or KLR650.

5. higher cost -- yes, but an inline twin is fairly cheap to manufacture. Most of the additional cost comes from the extra piston, rod, bore, etc. And if they could use off the shelf components and save R&D and tooling costs it might be a wash.

Bikepilot, everything you said is true, and the final result would definitely not be the street legal WR450 that a lot of people want, but I think it would be a very interesting dual sport/adventure bike. It could have the power and smoothness to eat up interstate miles and still be lighter than the current crop of 650 singles.
I'm with you--I'll take the twin. Yeah it's less torque than a 450 single but way MORE than any other 250 four-stroke. Additionally with a short-stroke 500 it'd rev out enough to easily cruise on the highway, and support taller gearing than a 450 single.

If they offered aftermarket subframes so that you could go lightweight or bulk up for a long trip it'd be heaven.

Personally I think the wr250r could do better with as little as another 50cc. Doubling it and it'd be a world-beater.
FriedDuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2009, 09:08 AM   #47
ILuvUMan
A Great American
 
ILuvUMan's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Go West
Oddometer: 22,227
Anyone who has raced high performance bikes, there really much difference at all between a 250 and a 450. These new high performance 250 engines will put plenty of power to the ground. Anything above a 250 is more show than go in the dirt and the extra weight doesn't help either.

Now if you're on the slab more, that's a different matter, but if on the slab a lot get a Suzuki Vstrom 650. You'll have all the power you could ever want.
__________________
What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Stronger
ILuvUMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2009, 11:04 AM   #48
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 17,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILuvUMan
Anyone who has raced high performance bikes, there really much difference at all between a 250 and a 450. These new high performance 250 engines will put plenty of power to the ground. Anything above a 250 is more show than go in the dirt and the extra weight doesn't help either.

Now if you're on the slab more, that's a different matter, but if on the slab a lot get a Suzuki Vstrom 650. You'll have all the power you could ever want.
at higher rpms yes. at lower rpms in the technical stuff a 450 is night & day better w/ power.
bigger is better on the hiway & at high altitude where power is way down.

if you're just a pimply track squid who can wring the motor all day then a 250 is just fine.
get real, nobody buyin this idea of a wr450r is thinking about it as a race machine.
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Butler Maps website:
http://www.butlermaps.com
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2009, 11:09 AM   #49
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 17,528
if anyone is serious about owning this model of bike sign this
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528297
don't this will sway anyone at yami, but it might raise an eyebrow.
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Butler Maps website:
http://www.butlermaps.com
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 08:27 AM   #50
GR0NK
Got some screws loose!
 
GR0NK's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: In the Valley of Bomb Runs...
Oddometer: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins
at higher rpms yes. at lower rpms in the technical stuff a 450 is night & day better w/ power.
bigger is better on the hiway & at high altitude where power is way down.

if you're just a pimply track squid who can wring the motor all day then a 250 is just fine.
get real, nobody buyin this idea of a wr450r is thinking about it as a race machine.
X2

A few more points:

-bigger motors last longer
-250F is still a bit smaller than the 450F so it doesn't really suit larger riders
-450 is a more stable machine and that is a plus for some riders
-not everybody can ride like Villopoto


Sean
__________________
Team Valley Bomb Squad

Nullus Vereor ex Terra Incognita
GR0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 09:07 AM   #51
NOTAR_520
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Oddometer: 602
I'd love a DRZ450(DRZ400E with FCR and 6speed would work too) with a wide ratio 6 speed, or a WR450R, 6 speed please.

The WR250r is currently getting some hype. I'm a big guy and the WRR might be a little tame for me but they do rock and have a WR tranny.

I saw this video on youtube, not mine but this WRR is SMOKIN.. Rider has skills too, WOT baby. We had a guy on our TAT team on a XT225, no problem, and he upgraded to a WR250R and is loving it.

[IMG]


[/IMG]
NOTAR_520 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 10:38 AM   #52
Dukeryder
 
Dukeryder's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pinewood Springs, Co
Oddometer: 7,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadholder
I can't image the Japanese won't repond with their WR's, CRF-X, KXF's etc.
It's never gonna happen.

The EURO bikes are VERY Expensive and it's a very small market and the consumers know exactly what they are buying.

With the Japanese bikes that's not always the case. Not every guy going out and buying a new Dirt bike at the local dealer is an aspiring Dakar racer or an avid post whore on ADV.

IF the Japanese were to produce a plated race bred Enduro they would be in severe danger of their reputation of producing reliable bikes getting trashed. When bubba returns to the dealership 6 months and 6,000 miles later with his grenaded top end on his "Plated KLXWRX" say "WTF Man! This piece of shit blew up in only 6,000 miles" being completely ignorant of the fact that the damn bike needs oil changes every couple hundred miles and was overdue on a top end rebuild.

THAT is why it's not gonna happen ever! Now I'd LOVE to see the Raptor 700 motor in a Tenere type bike or even XR700R that'd be a cool dual sport. DRZ with a 6 speed would be awesome too. BUT if I wanted a plated race bike Husky, KTM, Aprillia and BMW already make that
__________________


Dukeryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 10:58 AM   #53
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 17,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukeryder
It's never gonna happen.

The EURO bikes are VERY Expensive and it's a very small market and the consumers know exactly what they are buying.

With the Japanese bikes that's not always the case. Not every guy going out and buying a new Dirt bike at the local dealer is an aspiring Dakar racer or an avid post whore on ADV.

IF the Japanese were to produce a plated race bred Enduro they would be in severe danger of their reputation of producing reliable bikes getting trashed. When bubba returns to the dealership 6 months and 6,000 miles later with his grenaded top end on his "Plated KLXWRX" say "WTF Man! This piece of shit blew up in only 6,000 miles" being completely ignorant of the fact that the damn bike needs oil changes every couple hundred miles and was overdue on a top end rebuild.

THAT is why it's not gonna happen ever! Now I'd LOVE to see the Raptor 700 motor in a Tenere type bike or even XR700R that'd be a cool dual sport. DRZ with a 6 speed would be awesome too. BUT if I wanted a plated race bike Husky, KTM, Aprillia and BMW already make that
yeah but if yami can produce a 250 motor from the r1 design that is reliable, why couldn't that take that exact design and stregthen the connecting pieces and enlarge the cyl & head to a 450? if you have a working design why is not possible to make a larger version??? i think yami started w/ a 250 because that is the best size for a single worlds market bike.

when all the mfg have a 250 & a 450 vesrion of a dirtbike/mx bike i'm sure this exact process is repeated over & over. for example you think husky has 3 completely different engine designs in their 250, 310 & 450???
i really doubt it!
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Butler Maps website:
http://www.butlermaps.com
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2009, 06:18 PM   #54
Country Doc
Wanderer
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: somwhere north of Kingston, Ontario
Oddometer: 2,647
Is it just me, or does that guy riding the WRR look more than a little bit "out of control"?

He's a long way from smooth, that's for sure.

dc
Country Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2009, 06:29 PM   #55
MoBill
Smiles when says dat
 
MoBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Oddometer: 13,385
Looks normal to me...


I look like that, about 1/2 as fast.
MoBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2009, 03:21 PM   #56
MotoBoss
Bad Influence
 
MotoBoss's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Mid South Indiana
Oddometer: 3,412
I like mine just fine!

__________________
Adventure Before Dementia
MotoBossMotoBlog

AdventureRiderRadio
Donate To ADV



MotoBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2009, 03:30 PM   #57
nevermind
Swamp Thing
 
nevermind's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Lost then Found
Oddometer: 2,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukeryder
It's never gonna happen.

The EURO bikes are VERY Expensive and it's a very small market and the consumers know exactly what they are buying.

With the Japanese bikes that's not always the case. Not every guy going out and buying a new Dirt bike at the local dealer is an aspiring Dakar racer or an avid post whore on ADV.

IF the Japanese were to produce a plated race bred Enduro they would be in severe danger of their reputation of producing reliable bikes getting trashed. When bubba returns to the dealership 6 months and 6,000 miles later with his grenaded top end on his "Plated KLXWRX" say "WTF Man! This piece of shit blew up in only 6,000 miles" being completely ignorant of the fact that the damn bike needs oil changes every couple hundred miles and was overdue on a top end rebuild.

THAT is why it's not gonna happen ever! Now I'd LOVE to see the Raptor 700 motor in a Tenere type bike or even XR700R that'd be a cool dual sport. DRZ with a 6 speed would be awesome too. BUT if I wanted a plated race bike Husky, KTM, Aprillia and BMW already make that

You sound just like a politician. Are you running for office? We're less intelligent than a European and too stupid to RTFM and follow directions??? WTF Man!
nevermind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2009, 08:07 PM   #58
Gear_Grinder
Life Long Rider
 
Gear_Grinder's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Good old PA
Oddometer: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoBoss
I like mine just fine!

Is this a "plated" WR450R? I have been doing a lot of thinking about doing this.
__________________
In need of two wheels.
Gear_Grinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2009, 11:45 PM   #59
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 17,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gear_Grinder
Is this a "plated" WR450R? I have been doing a lot of thinking about doing this.
that's a plated wr450f
very common in colo.

a wr450r does not exist
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Butler Maps website:
http://www.butlermaps.com
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 06:10 AM   #60
MoBill
Smiles when says dat
 
MoBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Oddometer: 13,385
Spent the day on the WR250R yesterday, a 450R is a nice fantasy, but I think you'd lose the intuitive point and squirt characteristics.

It's no KTM, it's short on power, but if you rev the 250R like you're supposed to it's pretty sweet...it's hard to wheelie, kinda--but watch cranking the throttle if the ground or road is dropping away from you. It's enough.

...still would love to see this fantasy come true, just because. I'll keep the smaller machine though. It's a gas.

MoBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014