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Old 11-05-2010, 01:49 PM   #76
Attico
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I think your thought process is dead on target. The trick isn't taking the current 450 and making it street legal, it is about doing what the wrr really is, and that is a true dual sport. Full sub frame, solid transmission, losts of watts for lights and accessories. A decent battery, long valve adjustment intervals, etc. Yamaha was able to do that because the 250 is 1/4 of an R1. I think if they can get a similar hp number to any of the big 3 650s, it would be a hit, regardless of displacement. No one is asking for 70hp...

Yamaha, just build the fucking thing so we can give you money.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by miksu
Building 450 dual sport is not difficult. Here is a winning and proven receipt for yamaha to use:

-YZ450 engine and engine management
-Add 6th gear and increase spread
-Bring torque peak down 1000rpms with different camshaft
-Rev limiter down 1000rpms
-Possibly replace valves with heavier and more durable material now that rev limiter has been brought down
-Longer rod if rod angle is problematic

The thing is that 95% of the users never even use the 5hp which above modifications would cut, not even on mx track. Yet those make the engine last forever in dual sport use because it can no longer be abused. Then just print a manual which says valve check only needed every 10,000km's and you're done and people think it magically became super reliable. Oil change doesn't matter, only a fool would do 10,000km's between oil change no matter what manual says so it might just as well say it never needs one.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:38 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miksu
Building 450 dual sport is not difficult......
No doubt. You can ride one off a KTM, Husky, BMW or Beta showroom floor anytime you want.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:42 PM   #78
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In some places, a WR450F can be plated...so you might argue it's already done.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:58 PM   #79
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The number of states where it is legal to do so is dropping rapidly, and even in Washington where it may still be technically legal on the books, there is no funding for the inspections, so that in actuality it is impossible.

We need factory street legal dual sports.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:58 PM   #80
miksu
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First step would be making it street legal, no matter how dual sporty it is. Watts is not a problem, it's the system. True dual sport bikes have three phase system which easily puts out enough power, but dual sports evolved from race bikes only have one or two phase system for charging because ignition is a separate circuit. Latter is theoretically more reliable which is a good thing even on a dual sport, but does not put out as much power. Fuel injection might change that but I don't really know.

IMO wrr is too "dual-sport", it has to be a solid racer underneath. A race bike can be dual-sported as long as the engine can take it (gearing is wide enough), but a dual sport like wrr can never be raced, not even for fun because both bike and rider would get destroyed in the process. The thing is that the bike has to be more capable than the rider, if it is vice versa it will just bring frustration and failures. The wonderful thing with euro 450s is that they are race ready, they don't need a thing to go faster or better. They cost awfully lot, but the performance is worth every penny. Of course one could have a bike like wrr and a non-plated racer, but that does not make much sense unless the rider wears out a bike every year or two.

Another thing is spare parts, wrr has zero availability on used parts and aftermarket parts. If you crash one, only place to get parts is dealer and even they do not have them in stock unlike yz or wrf parts. So I think if yamaha made a dual sport 450, it would have to be based on the yz/upcoming wr with current yz engine.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:37 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12
......We need factory street legal dual sports.
We haz them.

KTM 450 EXC
KTM 530 EXC

Husky TE 630

BMW G 450 X

Beta 400 RS
Beta 450 RS
Beta 520 RS

Those are just the 50 state DOT street legal real dirt bikes that you can buy anytime your want. That does not even cover the quasi legal Huskies or KTM's that come with a title and can be plated in a lot of states.

And every one of those comes with real chains, sprockets, handlebars, brakes, suspension, etc. You don't have to upgrade the brakes, the power or the suspension. Just unbolt the useless crap and ride.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:54 PM   #82
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Again, they market the road-legal WR450R here in Australia and many European nartions. It doesn't have to do with them bringing one out, its got more to do with them passing US emissions standards. Hell, over here you can still buy a road-legal Yamaha AG100 - a 100cc air-cooled two-stroke!

Now that most manufacturers have gone to EFI, though, expect a wave of US emission compliant bikes to hit. Or not, depending on how anal your respective authorities are and how willing the manufacturers are to bend to them.

Judging from the amount of people here saying 'I would buy one', I would say that the Big Four are very interested and probably already hard at work.

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Old 11-05-2010, 06:23 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boingk
Again, they market the road-legal WR450R here in Australia and many European nartions. It doesn't have to do with them bringing one out, its got more to do with them passing US emissions standards. Hell, over here you can still buy a road-legal Yamaha AG100 - a 100cc air-cooled two-stroke!

Now that most manufacturers have gone to EFI, though, expect a wave of US emission compliant bikes to hit. Or not, depending on how anal your respective authorities are and how willing the manufacturers are to bend to them.

Judging from the amount of people here saying 'I would buy one', I would say that the Big Four are very interested and probably already hard at work.

Game, set, match - boingk
There is no such thing as a WR450R. The model being sold now world wide is the WR450F which is pretty much a race bike, the Euros and Aussies just get the corked up version with a light kit to make it street legal.

The bike everyone is talking about here would be completely different, just like the WR250R and F probably don't share more than a handful of parts.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:17 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
There is no such thing as a WR450R. The model being sold now world wide is the WR450F which is pretty much a race bike, the Euros and Aussies just get the corked up version with a light kit to make it street legal.

The bike everyone is talking about here would be completely different, just like the WR250R and F probably don't share more than a handful of parts.
You can no longer buy a wr450f either , no 2010 models here. Just left over 09s. if you can find one.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:47 AM   #85
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I haven't seen a street legal WR450F in a few years either, 2006 seems to be the last year but I'm not sure. They don't even sell a street legal raptor 700 anymore, but 350 is still available. Seems like yamaha dropped all those when it became difficult to pass emission tests with carburetor models, euros who still use carb restrict the bikes until they pass. I reckon japanese won't go into that business of fooling the customer AND circumventing regulations, but unfortunately it is impossible to tune fuel injection to feel good and pass emissions, that's why euros which have different ignition and fuel maps do not have the selector switch stock because it would be illegal. Fortunately they do have all the wiring and connectors
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:38 AM   #86
ian408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woods wizard
You can no longer buy a wr450f either , no 2010 models here. Just left over 09s. if you can find one.
No worries.
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:55 AM   #87
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I'd take a WR400R or WR426R with electric start, steel valves, cush drive and 6-speed please.
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:26 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1fa
I'd take a WR400R or WR426R with electric start, steel valves, cush drive and 6-speed please.
I had an 02 WR426 with a yz cam , yz exhaust blah, blah... I would not want it for a dual sport that would entertain any amount of highway use. Your model design would be nice tho'! There's a bunch street legal 400's and 426's on craigslist right now, and they don't sell very quickly. That's the same reason I don't want the great KTM duals - Many of us would like to be able to do comfortable hiway miles without the upkeep hassle and still be able to do some challenging off-roading with enough torque to wheely over obstacles. The WR250R is a wussy in that regard. That's where a WR450R would be very nice to have. But for God's sake Yamaha, if you make one, put a gas tank on it that lets us at least get past the city limit sign! Keep it under 290 lbs please so I can pick it up without going to a hospital the next day.
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:48 PM   #89
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Why not 2 cylinders from an R1????
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:20 AM   #90
Gryphon12
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To compete with an F800GS? Maybe. But it would need to be retuned to reduce peak power, bring the power lower in the rev range, and increase torque.

In any event, NOT the equivalent of a 450cc Adv Thumper.
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