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Old 02-06-2010, 12:42 PM   #31
Byrddog151
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New Bike Break In

So... Ride it like you stole it?

What if you stole it in one state and rode it like I stole it to another state to stash it...

I am taking delivery on a new 2010 next Saturday at Bogart's in Birmingham, AL and I planned on riding it home to Mississippi. A little over a 3 hour ride. Given that it's a new bike would it be good for it's first ride to be a 70mph, relatively steady RPM run to the house on the highway? From what I am gathering here it might not be the best thing. I could trailer it home and have it's first miles around town, varying speed and RPM more.

I've got Monday, Prez Day off so I definitely want to put it in the wind on that day.

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:45 PM   #32
Firefight911
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You'll be fine. Just avoid the steady state stuff. Why not pull up the map and find some nice secondary roads back and do the trip in 5 hours instead of a boring interstate 3?

The key is just not to let the bike remain at one rpm for an extended time. Accelerate and then let it come down through engine braking to allow the pistons, rings, seats, bearing surfaces to be loaded differently to allow oil to get in there and cool off some stuff.

Have fun and ride it like you stole it!!!
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Old 02-06-2010, 02:59 PM   #33
markjenn
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Break in is pretty hard to screw up these days, so almost any reasonable strategy should be fine. By reasonable, that means not to run it a very high power for very long (e.g., 100+ mph cruise), vary loads if you can (and you want occasional full throttle to establish working tolerances between the rings and cylinders), avoid idling/traffic, use a wide range of engine speeds, and vary your speed a bit at cruise. Up/down, winding country roads are ideal. If you must cruise on the interstate, just wind it up and down a bit every now and then.

But as the other person said, why would you want to do such a thing if there are more interesting two-lane alternatives that are better for the bike?

- Mark
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:11 PM   #34
Byrddog151
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Ooo, both of you are right... getting the maps out.
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:19 PM   #35
bikerfish1100
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steady speed & hiways bad, varying speed/rpm on backroads (preferably hilly so you can use engine braking on the down sides) good.
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:11 PM   #36
RamblerTim
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Question Break in questions

I bought mine in Nashville & rode it to Memphis for the first 200 miles at a mostly steady speed of 70mph with only occasional accelerations while passing.

I almost always slow down by gearing down but I also like to put in in 6 very early on (at 35-40 mph) because I enjoy seeing it get better gas mileage. Is this a bad idea?

Hopefully this will not have bad effects. The only thing my dealer told me was to not go above 5500 rpm during the break in, however this does not seem congruent with what everyone here is saying (?)

Questions:

The manual says to not exceed the engine run in speeds however does not say what these speeds are in a way I can understand, what is the max run in speed?

When you say 'load the bike while going up hills' you mean go up hills in a low gear at a high rpm?
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:09 PM   #37
Bartron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamblerTim
When you say 'load the bike while going up hills' you mean go up hills in a low gear at a high rpm?
The other way around. They are referring to lugging the engine - a high gear at low RPM's. In other words, when in doubt, shift down.

On discussion of break-in, between my father and I, we've broken in the last 9 bikes or so with the Motoman method and have never had a problem. The huge benefit is that you can have fun right away instead of waiting that painful first interval without going into the 'happy' RPMs.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:31 AM   #38
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinjet
Ever wonder why factory race bikes don't need a 600 or 1800 mile break in time to achieve full power?
It's because they get built precisely one at a time by master mechanics.
Production bikes on the other hand are mass produced by assemblers and while some are assembled very well, most are not assembled to the same level of quality and precision that the race bikes are. So what's a manufacturer to do? They specify a longer "break-in" so that parts that may fall at the wrong end of their mfg. tolerances have a chance to wear in to each other and if a horrible assembly error happened, the gradual increase in stress (slowly increasing speed and load as mileage goes up) will give the new owner a chance to report the problem before the engine hand grenades.
Nonsense.

Factory race teams have an unlimited supply of parts and those engines are set up much differently than machines made for road use. Also, they get rebuilt every 1000 miles or less.

Most warranty failures are for materials not workmanship.

Proper bedding in of an engine provides some assurance of long life. Actually, I am more concerned about running gear (transmissions, clutches, chains, shafts, etc.) than the engine. These days, engines rarely, as you say, hand grenade. I have only seen one broken rod in a BMW in my lifetime. It was due to owner abuse. I bought that busted BMW, repaired it and rode it 100,000 miles without a single breakdown.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:52 AM   #39
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you must run the engine through it's paces and full spectrum of engine speeds and engine breaking in order to 'set the rings'

running at a steady pace is like sharpening a knife one side.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:01 PM   #40
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddaddy
you must run the engine through it's paces and full spectrum of engine speeds and engine breaking in order to 'set the rings'

running at a steady pace is like sharpening a knife one side.
Engine rings/cylinder walls are bedded in after only a few miles of operation. Extended engine break-in takes place in rotating bearings and other surfaces like cam lobes and lifters. It is very rare to find engine cylinders/rings not well seated after 2-3 hours of operation.

You are correct, engine speeds should be varied during the first few hours of operation in order to eliminate localized heat, the engine's enemy during early engine life.

Most oil consumption during early miles is due to heat, not the oil finding its way into the combustion chamber...check your spark plugs in your new engine...you'll likely find them clean and without oil deposits. I have the original plugs in my boxer engine...at 40,000 miles+, they are still showing no deposits from oil.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:09 PM   #41
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrddog151
So... Ride it like you stole it?

What if you stole it in one state and rode it like I stole it to another state to stash it...

I am taking delivery on a new 2010 next Saturday at Bogart's in Birmingham, AL and I planned on riding it home to Mississippi. A little over a 3 hour ride. Given that it's a new bike would it be good for it's first ride to be a 70mph, relatively steady RPM run to the house on the highway? From what I am gathering here it might not be the best thing. I could trailer it home and have it's first miles around town, varying speed and RPM more.

I've got Monday, Prez Day off so I definitely want to put it in the wind on that day.

Any thoughts?
Yes, ride safely...don't be concerned about your break-in. There are enough hills between Birmingham and MS to provide varying engine loads. I would stop at rest areas and inspect for leaks and some cool down along the way. If you have time, stop at the Barber Vintage Motorsports Museum...its on you way home http://barbermuseum.org/index2.php

def screwed with this post 05-22-2010 at 02:15 PM
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Old 05-22-2010, 05:06 PM   #42
JoelWisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by def
Engine rings/cylinder walls are bedded in after only a few miles of operation. Extended engine break-in takes place in rotating bearings and other surfaces like cam lobes and lifters. It is very rare to find engine cylinders/rings not well seated after 2-3 hours of operation.

You are correct, engine speeds should be varied during the first few hours of operation in order to eliminate localized heat, the engine's enemy during early engine life.

Most oil consumption during early miles is due to heat, not the oil finding its way into the combustion chamber...check your spark plugs in your new engine...you'll likely find them clean and without oil deposits. I have the original plugs in my boxer engine...at 40,000 miles+, they are still showing no deposits from oil.
+1 to all the above.

Modern rings seat in no time and nothing you can do will screw this up.

Bearings are a different animal. One part of the bearing is an alloy sleve in most bearings, what's riding on this sleve is usually high carbon steel. Both are tempered to an exact hardness by heating to a high temperature and cooling at a specific rate.

No matter how hard you run the engine, you will never heat any componants to a temperature that will affect tempering ONCE THE ENGINE IS BROKEN IN!

Before run in is completed, bearings do not mate perfectly, this leads to localized heating. If the engine is run at high enough rpm for long enough durring break in, retempering will occur with the result being a softening of localized areas.

The above is not important to race engines, which are made with exotic materials and machined to more precise tollerances, because longevity is not the goal.

The reason that every single manufacture of mass produced vehicles with internal combustion engines reccomend a gentle break in, is because this is what will give you the longest engine life.

If you ride it like you stold it, your engine probably won't blow up, but it also will not last as long.

Yes run in instructions are conservative, but mainly because every manufacture knows some people will push the limits so manufactures set those limits tighter then they need to be.

Do what you like.

If you want my advice, keep the revs low and gently run them higher for the run in time.

Vary the load and rpm's often. Your anealimg componants and releaving casting stresses through repeated heat cycling. Also metal is somewhat elastic so the rpms do need to be varied, and higher over time.

Stop often and allow the engine to idle, or better yet, turn it off for about the time it takes to smoke.

Change your oil at the reccomended time. This has absolutely nothing to do with abrassive particulate load, that is what oil filters are for. Change your oil at the reccomended first service because it will have suffered viscosity break down and addative depletion due to super heating from high friction points.

If you insist on running your engine hard durring break in, change your oil early as it will be fried.

Incedentally. The color of engine oil has nothing to do with it's performance, no relevence to it needing changed, no indicitation of how well or poorly your run in technique was.

Oil turns black due to carbon loading. This carbon loading comes mainly from blow by which is most sever durring cold starting and warm up.

If you take many short trips, especially in cold climates, your oil will turn black very quickly. If you idle to warm up your engine, the oil will turn black quicker yet. If you tend to take long trips with fewer cold starts, your oil will remain light longer.

If you desire to know how your oil is doing, and how much of your bearings are in your oil, contact "Blackstone labs". http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ . Send them around $20, and mail back the kit they send you.

Opinnions are like assholes lol, but I defy anyone to find a cradentialed automotive or motorcycle engineer that says different.

Either way have fun and enjoy the ride
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:32 AM   #43
DockingPilot
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I use Blackstone myself. In fact, next sample going out with this next drain.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:39 AM   #44
KnuckC
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I recently purchased an f8 and have enjoyed reading about the various controversies. Some claim the bike is incapable of going beyond a well maintained gravel road while others claim it is capable of the most demanding single track. Some claim the bike is poorly manufactured and is destined to leave you stranded while others claim it is the best built bike on the planet. Some claim you must change your oil after 20 miles (how many of us do that) and break-in your bike like you stole it while others take the position that your motor will lose significant longevity if it is not broken in gently. What are we to believe?

With respect to break-in, I suspect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't recommend only riding the bike below 3000 rpm for the first 600 miles nor would I recommend riding it to redline through every gear in its first few miles. I agree with those who say do not ride for extended periods at a constant rpm and do not allow it to idle for an extended amount of time. I agree that the oil and filter should be changed within the first 600 miles, not at 20 or 3000. Other than that, I suspect that those who ride the bike during break-in in the same manner they intend to ride the bike during the time they own it will be fine.

These forums are a great resource and we all try to help each other in pursuit of our passion. Unfortunately an unintended side effect is we sometimes scare those of us who are not "experts" in the area of concern. As a result we may inadvertently mislead. We should all be wary of extremes and write our comments accordingly.
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:14 AM   #45
The Griz OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnuckC
I recently purchased an f8 and have enjoyed reading about the various controversies. Some claim the bike is incapable of going beyond a well maintained gravel road while others claim it is capable of the most demanding single track. Some claim the bike is poorly manufactured and is destined to leave you stranded while others claim it is the best built bike on the planet. Some claim you must change your oil after 20 miles (how many of us do that) and break-in your bike like you stole it while others take the position that your motor will lose significant longevity if it is not broken in gently. What are we to believe?

With respect to break-in, I suspect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't recommend only riding the bike below 3000 rpm for the first 600 miles nor would I recommend riding it to redline through every gear in its first few miles. I agree with those who say do not ride for extended periods at a constant rpm and do not allow it to idle for an extended amount of time. I agree that the oil and filter should be changed within the first 600 miles, not at 20 or 3000. Other than that, I suspect that those who ride the bike during break-in in the same manner they intend to ride the bike during the time they own it will be fine.

These forums are a great resource and we all try to help each other in pursuit of our passion. Unfortunately an unintended side effect is we sometimes scare those of us who are not "experts" in the area of concern. As a result we may inadvertently mislead. We should all be wary of extremes and write our comments accordingly.
Bravo!
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