Killboy failure Dragon Fest

[tedder]

Originally Posted by crofrog

Try finding a pad with a higher initial torque, increasing your rotor diameter or look at changing to a master cylinder with a different bore size.

We have a large supply of bores here.

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by crofrog

Try finding a pad with a higher initial torque, increasing your rotor diameter or look at changing to a master cylinder with a different bore size.

New pads is easy.

Larger rotors? Well, now we're making adapter brackets for the calipers, but OK.

Larger bore master cylinder will get you less lever travel (so you don't have to pinch your fingers) at the expense of power (force multiplication)l- so you have to use all your fingers to get maximum braking.

Smaller bore master cylinder gives you more power at the expense of pinching any fingers left on the bar.

What was the goal again?

[Contevita]

[ttpete]

Originally Posted by crofrog

Try finding a pad with a higher initial torque, increasing your rotor diameter or look at changing to a master cylinder with a different bore size.

All that and more. The cheaper bikes usually came with single pot calipers. I upgraded the KLR with a 300 mm rotor, four pot caliper, and new master cylinder. I refuse to own a bike with inferior brakes. Except for the Triumph, which is a correctly restored vintage machine, and it is ridden at events only.

[GSequoia]

Originally Posted by tedder

We have a large supply of bores here.

That's rather personal, don't you think?

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by tedder

I'm baffled why people are obsessed with finding the minimum number of fingers necessary on their bike.

it's not about finding the minimum necessary.

using 1 or 2 fingers allows you to maintain better control over the handle bars and throttle at the same time you are braking. you can use all 3 controls (plus the clutch on the other side) with fine input at the same time.

also, covering the brake with all the fingers you use to apply it allows you to apply it more quickly (as the fingers are already in place instead of having to reach for the lever). and covering the front brake level with 4 fingers all the time would sacrifice bar and throttle control.

[dbuzz]

Originally Posted by tedder

I'm baffled why people are obsessed with finding the minimum number of fingers necessary on their bike.

Because that is what all the 'cool' riders do because they saw someone they thought was 'cool' doing it. Then they have to justify it ... hence the hair splitting and finger counting. It's kind of like how one peice leathers automatically mean you are a great rider

Monkey see, monkey do.

[ray h]

Originally Posted by Kingsized

I'm not really a high beam guy so that is odd. I wonder (and I totally understand what you are seeing), if it's some type of reflection bouncing back from my plastic guard? As bright as the low beam is, you'd think the high beam fixture would be fully filled with light. Either that or I just screwed up and hit my high beams.

No problem, I'm just messing with you.
I took all kinds of guff from a couple of inmates for riding with my highbeam on so I'm just spreading it around.

[Kingsized]

Originally Posted by ray h

No problem, I'm just messing with you.
I took all kinds of guff from a couple of inmates for riding with my highbeam on so I'm just spreading it around.

It's all good. I never got my farkles in a tuff, ha!

[crofrog]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

it's not about finding the minimum necessary.

using 1 or 2 fingers allows you to maintain better control over the handle bars and throttle at the same time you are braking. you can use all 3 controls (plus the clutch on the other side) with fine input at the same time.

also, covering the brake with all the fingers you use to apply it allows you to apply it more quickly (as the fingers are already in place instead of having to reach for the lever). and covering the front brake level with 4 fingers all the time would sacrifice bar and throttle control.

Not to mention the first time your braking and the front starts to tuck with all four fingers on the brake is going to be awesome, as you try to reduce pressure on the brakes while pushing the bars back straight and and scaring the shit out of yourself...

[Barry]

Originally Posted by dbuzz

Because that is what all the 'cool' riders do because they saw someone they thought was 'cool' doing it. Then they have to justify it ... hence the hair splitting and finger counting. It's kind of like how one peice leathers automatically mean you are a great rider

Monkey see, monkey do.

Give some people credit for espousing the method that works best for them, vice drinking the coolaid and parroting what others do. I am a 1 or 2 finger braker, and a 2 finger clutch person... dirt or pavement. That works for me, it works better than 4 fingers. If 4 fingers worked better, I would espouse that as the method that works for me. Please don't paint with so broad a brush.

Barry

[Orygunner]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

it's not about finding the minimum necessary.

using 1 or 2 fingers allows you to maintain better control over the handle bars and throttle at the same time you are braking. you can use all 3 controls (plus the clutch on the other side) with fine input at the same time.

also, covering the brake with all the fingers you use to apply it allows you to apply it more quickly (as the fingers are already in place instead of having to reach for the lever). and covering the front brake level with 4 fingers all the time would sacrifice bar and throttle control.

If a new rider is braking, why do they need to use the throttle? As an experienced rider, I sometimes brake with two fingers and blip the throttle when downshifting to match engine RPM to road speed, but that's the only time that the throttle isn't rolled completely off when using the front brake.

Remember, this conversation started because someone that took the MSF basic rider course was told to use all fingers on their brake and they wanted to know why. It's simply because not covering the brake on the range, and using all four fingers when braking is the best practice for new riders, both for proper consistent technique and safety, for all.

If you (or anyone else) as an experienced rider, based on your experience and frequent practice with stopping quickly on your bike find that you can do so as safely and quickly with 2 fingers as you can with 4, that your other fingers don't get pinched or limit your brake application, then do it that way.

I haven't seen any riders, even new ones, sacrifice bar & throttle control from using all four fingers on their brake (or covering the clutch at all times), on the range or the street. What little off road riding I've seen I can CERTAINLY see the reason on rough terrain, but we're talking smooth pavement here where the bike's not bucking & bouncing.

...Orygunner...

[Orygunner]

Originally Posted by crofrog

Not to mention the first time your braking and the front starts to tuck with all four fingers on the brake is going to be awesome, as you try to reduce pressure on the brakes while pushing the bars back straight and and scaring the shit out of yourself...

Are you talking about locking and skidding the front wheel? That's the only reason the bars are going to turn anywhere but in the direction of travel.

The proper technique when that happens is to quickly RELEASE the front brake and smoothly reapply. You can't "push the bars back straight" to maintain balance while the front wheel is skidding, simply releasing the brake will straighten the bars no matter what else you try and do.

I've seen some pretty gnarly front wheel skids on the range, and releasing immediately is the only solution. Every single person that released the front brake (before the bike was down, of course) regained control of the bike, even when they had been using all four fingers on the brake.

...Orygunner...

[hooliken]

Originally Posted by Orygunner

I personally use all fingers for most braking, but sometimes just use two depending on what I'm doing (slow speed manuvers or blipping the throttle while braking & downshifting). Sometimes I even just use one brake or the other.

...Orygunner...

Originally Posted by LuciferMutt

Sweet Jebus. Are you better at braking with four fingers or two? It matters more what the rider is good at and comfortable with than how many fucking fingers they use!

There are a shit ton of motorcycles out there, that even with factory spec/service brakes, you still need four fingers on the lever to get maximum braking from.

Originally Posted by tedder

Right. New riders, so teaching a preferred technique that works on all bikes is better than teaching advanced skills.

Generally speaking it's much easier to "feel" the brakes with four fingers, even if it only takes one. I'm baffled why people are obsessed with finding the minimum number of fingers necessary on their bike.

Wear r d pikchures?

Victory! Victory!

[Flying-D]

Originally Posted by hooliken

I have no opinion on his braking technique, and he seems competent enough, but IMO that is still the fugliest motorcycle ever made.