I'm a Garmin n00b and I need help learning to use my GPS to enhance my Adventure

[viola-tor]

I've been wondering about this issue for a while. The iPhone 3G seems to be $200-$300, and does a lot of cool stuff in addition to maps (I don't have one yet).

I just got a Garmin 60CSX (after DAYS of research here on ADVrider) and all the goodies to make it "work" on a bike, the RAM mount, power cord, City Nav. software, micro SD card, rechargable batteries (for hiking and other activities off the bike). All that stuff really adds up, it's upwards of $500. that's a chunk of change! I admit that I'm a GPS n00b, and that I don't really know how to use it, but I'm not impressed having toyed with it for over a month now. It's frustrating to use, keying info in takes forever, the menus aren't intuative, and I don't think I should be looking at it while I'm operating a motorcycle anyway. It seems to be very good at telling me where I AM, but I usually know that.

Using the GPS as a paper map alternative has so far been a total failure for me. When I pull over to decide where to go next I don't reach for the GPS, I grab the map because I can see what I want a lot faster (and it's larger!), and paper never runs out of batteries... The GPS only shows you detail when zoomed in close, and then you can't see the big picture! Grrrrr.

Could the iPhone 3G bring it all together? If you loaded picture files of maps/topo for your riding area in the iPhone coupled with it's GPS I'd think one would be able to navigate just about anything, plus call home, plus use google, plus book a hotel room in the next town, plus have your entire motorycle manual on hand, plus plus plus... An iphone certainly isn't as robust as a handheld waterproof GPS unit, but with a nice otterbox case, a car charger, and some ingenuity it might just fit the bill.

Thoughts?

(I'm not really into pre-routing my trips. I guess that's one of the great things about GPS, but I like to ride and explore visually on the fly.)

[NoTime]

Originally Posted by viola-tor

I just got a Garmin 60CSX (after DAYS of research here on ADVrider) and all the goodies to make it "work" on a bike, the RAM mount, power cord, City Nav. software, micro SD card, rechargable batteries (for hiking and other activities off the bike). All that stuff really adds up, it's upwards of $500. that's a chunk of change! I admit that I'm a GPS n00b, and that I don't really know how to use it, but I'm not impressed having toyed with it for over a month now. It's frustrating to use, keying info in takes forever, the menus aren't intuative, and I don't think I should be looking at it while I'm operating a motorcycle anyway. It seems to be very good at telling me where I AM, but I usually know that.

Using the GPS as a paper map alternative has so far been a total failure for me. When I pull over to decide where to go next I don't reach for the GPS, I grab the map because I can see what I want a lot faster (and it's larger!), and paper never runs out of batteries... The GPS only shows you detail when zoomed in close, and then you can't see the big picture! Grrrrr.

Could the iPhone 3G bring it all together? If you loaded picture files of maps/topo for your riding area in the iPhone coupled with it's GPS I'd think one would be able to navigate just about anything, plus call home, plus use google, plus book a hotel room in the next town, plus have your entire motorycle manual on hand, plus plus plus... An iphone certainly isn't as robust as a handheld waterproof GPS unit, but with a nice otterbox case, a car charger, and some ingenuity it might just fit the bill.

Thoughts?

(I'm not really into pre-routing my trips. I guess that's one of the great things about GPS, but I like to ride and explore visually on the fly.)

I'm right there with you on all your criticisms of the Garmin unit. After I had used mine for a short while I was incredulous: "And this is the best unit on the market?!!!" Unbelievable. Nevertheless, I've kept it because I think it will have some useful applications. If, as you said, you're just wandering when you ride and you usually know where you are, then you have much less use for it than I.

I do find it useful to plan the ride, especially if I'm doing a long trip. I may not always stick to the plan, but I like to start with a route in mind. The PC softw is reasonably good for that. Of course Google maps and Google Earth are even better for planning so I've found that the ability to move data between them is very helpful.

And, of course, if you have a planned route, knowing that you're on it is good too. The GPS handles that well.

Another feature I like about the GPS is the navigation aid. At some of the speeds we travel (and I've read your trip report!) it's nice to know what's coming up (or what you just passed). For those of us who are more advanced in age it's also helpful not to have to squint at those road signs too.

One of the features I use most is the on-the-fly routing. Good for those return-to-base legs of the trip when there's a deadline for your arrival. Nice to have it route the most direct route and give ETA.

And finally, unlike yourself, I often have no effing idea where I am. Whether riding or hiking, it's nice to have the GPS back-up. Not a replacement for a map, but another tool that can be, but is not always, very useful.

My $.02.

[viola-tor]

Originally Posted by NoTime

I'm right there with you on all your criticisms of the Garmin unit. After I had used mine for a short while I was incredulous: "And this is the best unit on the market?!!!" Unbelievable. Nevertheless, I've kept it because I think it will have some useful applications. If, as you said, you're just wandering when you ride and you usually know where you are, then you have much less use for it than I.

I do find it useful to plan the ride, especially if I'm doing a long trip. I may not always stick to the plan, but I like to start with a route in mind. The PC softw is reasonably good for that. Of course Google maps and Google Earth are even better for planning so I've found that the ability to move data between them is very helpful.

And, of course, if you have a planned route, knowing that you're on it is good too. The GPS handles that well.

Another feature I like about the GPS is the navigation aid. At some of the speeds we travel (and I've read your trip report!) it's nice to know what's coming up (or what you just passed). For those of us who are more advanced in age it's also helpful not to have to squint at those road signs too.

One of the features I use most is the on-the-fly routing. Good for those return-to-base legs of the trip when there's a deadline for your arrival. Nice to have it route the most direct route and give ETA.

And finally, unlike yourself, I often have no effing idea where I am. Whether riding or hiking, it's nice to have the GPS back-up. Not a replacement for a map, but another tool that can be, but is not always, very useful.

My $.02.

Thanks for contributing! How do you share data between google earth and Garmin? These are the lessons I need to learn!

I read some reports from a few months back that a Tom-Tom executive announced that it has a working version of it's GPS software for the iPhone, but no word about a release date yet. That could change things...

I'm not assuming that an iPhone app would solve all of gripes, but it seems that as a handheld device it would do much (or all) that I would expect from GPS unit, and SOOOO much more, for less money. That is my hope in the next year...

Now how do I set the Garmin 60 CSX to tell me where campsites are??? Surely there's a way to do that...

[the venturer]

Originally Posted by viola-tor

Thanks for contributing! How do you share data between google earth and Garmin? These are the lessons I need to learn!

I read some reports from a few months back that a Tom-Tom executive announced that it has a working version of it's GPS software for the iPhone, but no word about a release date yet. That could change things...

I'm not assuming that an iPhone app would solve all of gripes, but it seems that as a handheld device it would do much (or all) that I would expect from GPS unit, and SOOOO much more, for less money. That is my hope in the next year...

Now how do I set the Garmin 60 CSX to tell me where campsites are??? Surely there's a way to do that...

Easy as follows: draw your routes by simply pressing the ''ADD ROUTES'' button above. Choose the colour of your line and DON'T CLOSE the menu window. Move your mouse and see the routes forming. Then, save it onto your desktop as .KML file. All you need is a CONVERTER PROGRAM such as GPS TRACKMAKER or, my favourite GPS BABYLON. DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL one of them. OPEN your .KML FILE with one of these programs and finally SAVE it as .GPX. That's it.
Search is your friend: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138479
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176510

As for your second question, you can simply use POI options of your GPS device to see what's around from A-Z where you are riding.

[viola-tor]

Originally Posted by the venturer

Easy as follows: draw your routes by simply pressing the ''ADD ROUTES'' button above. Choose the colour of your line and DON'T CLOSE the menu window. Move your mouse and see the routes forming. Then, save it onto your desktop as .KML file. All you need is a CONVERTER PROGRAM such as GPS TRACKMAKER or, my favourite GPS BABYLON. DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL one of them. OPEN your .KML FILE with one of these programs and finally SAVE it as .GPX. That's it.
Search is your friend: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138479
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176510

As for your second question, you can simply use POI options of your GPS device to see what's around from A-Z where you are riding.

Thanks venturer, I realize this isn't the place for GPS support, I was kinda venting, but I appreciate the help anyway! Thanks.

[9Dave]

Since these posts weren't really about the use of the iPhone, I split them out into a separate thread. No offense intended in the thread title.

Viola-tor - As I was reading your posts, it struck me who you were. Aren't you the guy from WF08 who whipped out your cello viola at the end of the de-n00bing and played it. Very beautifully, too.

Working with a GPS is like playing the viola, or whatever you started on. Just have to remember when you knew it could play beautiful music, but you didn't know where to push, how to work the bow, etc. Once you did, the results were amazing.

The 60 is the same. Used properly, a GPS has a lot of great features that will help you enhance your adventure. You just have to practice with it - a lot!

Dave
ADV Mod

P.S. - I was the guy who asked why a viola player's fingers were like lightning. Don't blame me. It's my niece's joke. She plays cello.

[NoTime]

Sorry to have steered the thread off course...but now that it's adrift....

[RANT] It's worth the effort to interface Google and the 60, but it is a complicated multi-step process EVERYTIME and, why should I have to? It's disappointing that the market leading device would require the user to do such hoop-jumping to create what, IMHO, should be out-of-the-box functionality.[/RANT]

One of the things I'm looking for when I'm riding is national forest land - both for riding and camping opportunities. Two issues: 1) Seeing the features of interest (natl forest lands, water features (lakes/rivers)) on the PC (CN) when I'm planning my route and 2) seeing the feature on the GPS unit so that I know when I'm within (or leaving) the natl forest boundary.

Garmin CN lacks this minor feature. I have the impression that it may be available on the Roads and Recreation mapset, but I haven't gotten to the point of trying to track down this discontinued product on eBay yet. So my options, as I understand it, are to either circumscribe a route around the feature of interest on Google and download it, or (the preferred method) make a custom map. I haven't even tried the latter option because it looks so complicated. The one example I saw though looked like it produced a good result and allowed the user to show features (like lakes/rivers, natl forest, etc) on their maps. Lots and lots of custom maps required especially for, say, a trip to the Arctic. Both of these processes are described in threads on this site.

[tbirdsp]

For another perspective -
I have been using Garmin GPS and Mapsource software since 2001. I find Google Earth and Google Maps clunky and frustrating to use. I use Garmin Mapsource for all of my trip planning.

I *do* tend to pre plan most of my trips. I just rarely have time to ride around exploring (wish I did).

However, you can also kinda of pre-plan your unplanned routes , maybe just locate some key waypoints and navigate to them on the fly.

I recently planned a trip to the Black Hills. I used a combination of Mapsource with City Select (old version of City Nav), US Topo, and Roads & Recreation maps, USFS and other maps I found online, plus tracks and ride reports from other ADVriders.

Anything with a screen smaller than a notebook computer is going to be a poor "paper map alternative". There's just no physical way to get the "big picture".

If your idea of GPS involves a lot of on-the-fly routing and entering info, maybe a Zumo or one of the touch screen units would be better.

[GodSilla]

When I first started using my GPS60 I was really only scratching the surface of what the unit can do. It takes time, patience, and willingness to master, but there seems to be a threshhold of knowledge that one crosses and then much stuff becomes clearer. I found the help and stickies in this forum to be absolutely the best help anywhere. The garmin manual just confused me.

The phone-based gps in many models relies on triangulation from the phone towers, if you are out of range you are out of luck. Those phones with gps receivers built-in are better, but still drop out under tree cover or in canyons and such. The phones aren't ruggedised or waterproof to IPX standards either.
If you are doing serious off road the the Garmin unit is reliable and powerful. If you are doing touring with some dirt roads thrown in the phone may be sufficient, providing the shock doesn't destroy the internals.
I find the use of tracks is fantastic, and I have learned to navigate on-the-fly with the unit, a real pleasure to do. I also do pre-planned rides, and this is where the unit absolutely shines. Plot your track, and follow the line - sweet.
The problem with zooming out and losing detail is a bugbear for me too, but it varies from map software to map software. I have a highly detailed local topo map product and it loses EVERYTHING apart from highways at anything over 1.5 km (1 mile) scale - really frustrating in the boonies. I have another freebie product that just keeps all the detail as far as you can zoom out, as far as I can tell. So I swap between then on the fly as required. It's a matter of persistence, and finding the right map software too.
I agree it shouldn't be this hard for noobs, as I struggled with the concepts and quirks for quite a while (and I work in IT too). It's just Garmin has a proprietary way of doing things. I just looked at it as a no-pain no-gain type of thng.

[Boon Booni]

Originally Posted by viola-tor

It seems to be very good at telling me where I AM, but I usually know that.

If you know where you are, then you're using it wrong.


I use it to take me places I'd never find just by guessing my way there. My last trip out I did a 500 mile afternoon on a route that I'd created before I left. Once I got off the main roads, there were many places that I had no idea where I was. It would take me a bit of figuring with a map to find out if I stopped.

It sounds like so far you're just out riding, and using it, and not impressed. That's ok. When I'm out wandering around I don't have a route or a destination, I just pick a road and turn. Sometimes when I get into an area where I don't know exactly where I am, I'll use it to autoroute to a little town I know about. Set it on "most direct route" and it'll often take you down some crazy ass roads.

BUT

The great thing about the GPS is that you can use all those way out back roads to actually make way to your destination. For instance. I rode 1000 miles to BYOB 2008. I took mostly backroads to get there. I took some really windy out of the way back roads. Lots of turns. Sometimes it seemed like I was only going 10 miles or so before the next turn. Sometimes I'd turn on what looked like a driveway, or an unmarked fire road that would lead over the mountains. No guessing on my part. I picked the route so I knew the turn was leading me where I wanted to go. Lets see you keep track of all those turns, and back roads while still trying to make time to a destination. It doesn't work. (edit: Without a rollchart )

Then, once you're home, you can look at the track log of a day of wandering and figure out where you were, and what roads you might like to take again.

I've got all my long rides since 2003 saved on my computer. When I'm headed somewhere, and remember a portion of a route that I want to take again, I can load it up, and copy out the portions that I want to repeat.

[Boon Booni]

Originally Posted by tbirdsp

For another perspective -
I have been using Garmin GPS and Mapsource software since 2001. I find Google Earth and Google Maps clunky and frustrating to use. I use Garmin Mapsource for all of my trip planning..

I'm with you. I don't like trying to route with google earth/maps. I think the Garmin interface works better for multi point routes, plus you can controll how it routes. This is good because the 478 gets the entire route not just the Via points, so there's no hoping the route is the same as on the computer.

Originally Posted by tbirdsp

I *do* tend to pre plan most of my trips. I just rarely have time to ride around exploring (wish I did).

However, you can also kinda of pre-plan your unplanned routes , maybe just locate some key waypoints and navigate to them on the fly.

One thing I'll do is look at a map of the area, and mark both ends of interesting looking roads with waypoints. Then when I'm out exploring that area, I will find nearest waypoints and let the unit route me to those roads. By no means am I stuck riding just those roads, but at least I've got some targets to shoot for while exploring.

[tbirdsp]

Good inputs, GodSilla and Gramps

Gramps, I've found the issue with the 60Cx only taking the via points of the route much less of a problem than I originally thought. I almost never have a problem now, and there are several ways to check what the GPS has come up with against your Mapsource route ahead of time so you aren't surprised.

[Boon Booni]

Originally Posted by tbirdsp

Good inputs, GodSilla and Gramps

Gramps, I've found the issue with the 60Cx only taking the via points of the route much less of an issue than I originally thought. I almost never have a problem now, and there are several ways to check what the GPS has come up with against your Mapsource route ahead of time so you aren't surprised.

Yeah, I never really found an issue with my 76c either. But now I can use custom avoids, and modify the road type speed setting in mapsource, to even further customize how the routes are created.