ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush > Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-27-2013, 02:31 PM   #871
DRjoe
Beastly Adventurer
 
DRjoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Sunshine coast qld
Oddometer: 5,318
Finished yet?
DRjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 04:35 PM   #872
sakurama OP
on an endless build
 
sakurama's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: NYC & PDX
Oddometer: 1,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRjoe View Post
Finished yet?
Yeah, I'd like to know what's going on too. It's time for an update Chris.

Gregor

sakurama screwed with this post 07-27-2013 at 04:35 PM Reason: To know more
sakurama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 12:22 PM   #873
yellowbronco
Gnarly Adventurer
 
yellowbronco's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Sacramento
Oddometer: 210
big bore distraction

Not to distract from the 2x2 project but...I'd like to distract for a moment and ask a question about the big bore project. In order to avoid the expense of tooling up a custom cylinder with thicker walls for the big bore, couldn't one overbore the existing cylinders and press in liners like is done regularly for big bore thumpers? I have a 2008 KTM 250SXF with a Thumper Racing 300cc big bore and the cylinder is cast iron. I suspect that what Thumper Racing does is bore the stock cylinder out much past what's needed to fit the larger piston (and, in fact, break into the water passages?) and then press in a cast iron liner that interfaces directly with the coolant passages on the outside and the piston on the inside. I understand that aluminum liners are common as well.

I have an old Husaberg engine apart on my bench at the moment and I'm thinking about performing this mod to open the 95mm bore up to use a 100mm piston which, with the 84mm stroke will get me 660cc's.

Tom
__________________
08 KTM 320 SXF, '07 Beta Rev 3,
Frankenberg 501, '96 Husaberg FC600, '68 Yamaha DT1, '74 Bultaco Alpina 250, '84 Husqvarna WR400 - My Dad says I've never seen a motorcycle I didn't want to own...
yellowbronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 03:30 PM   #874
Bowser
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: London
Oddometer: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbronco View Post
Not to distract from the 2x2 project but...I'd like to distract for a moment and ask a question about the big bore project. In order to avoid the expense of tooling up a custom cylinder with thicker walls for the big bore, couldn't one overbore the existing cylinders and press in liners like is done regularly for big bore thumpers? I have a 2008 KTM 250SXF with a Thumper Racing 300cc big bore and the cylinder is cast iron. I suspect that what Thumper Racing does is bore the stock cylinder out much past what's needed to fit the larger piston (and, in fact, break into the water passages?) and then press in a cast iron liner that interfaces directly with the coolant passages on the outside and the piston on the inside. I understand that aluminum liners are common as well.

I have an old Husaberg engine apart on my bench at the moment and I'm thinking about performing this mod to open the 95mm bore up to use a 100mm piston which, with the 84mm stroke will get me 660cc's.

Tom
I am confused here, if the idea is to end up with a 990 engine with carbs, would it not be easier to put a 990 engine and run it with the carbs and wiring etc that you already have and effectively do the carb conversion, rather than try and make the 950 into a 990, wouldn't the end results be the same? or am I missing something.
Bowser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 04:03 PM   #875
Flanny
Flanny-it-up!
 
Flanny's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, the World, the Universe
Oddometer: 2,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I am confused here, if the idea is to end up with a 990 engine with carbs, would it not be easier to put a 990 engine and run it with the carbs and wiring etc that you already have and effectively do the carb conversion, rather than try and make the 950 into a 990, wouldn't the end results be the same? or am I missing something.
You are confused. The idea is to take a 990 with carbs, and make it a 1080 (or something similar) with carbs. Or to take a 950 and make it a (true) 1020 or so....
Flanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 08:08 PM   #876
sakurama OP
on an endless build
 
sakurama's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: NYC & PDX
Oddometer: 1,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanny View Post
You are confused. The idea is to take a 990 with carbs, and make it a 1080 (or something similar) with carbs. Or to take a 950 and make it a (true) 1020 or so....
No, you're confused. This is a forum for people with orange bikes. Not just orange garages.

Come on, you really thought I'd let you slide? Don't you need to repaint your garage red?



Hey Chris, we can stop working on the Flannymobile killer - no longer needed.

Gregor
sakurama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 08:20 PM   #877
Flanny
Flanny-it-up!
 
Flanny's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, the World, the Universe
Oddometer: 2,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakurama View Post
No, you're confused. This is a forum for people with orange bikes. Not just orange garages.

Come on, you really thought I'd let you slide? Don't you need to repaint your garage red?



Hey Chris, we can stop working on the Flannymobile killer - no longer needed.

Gregor
Good luck getting your 990 up to 150hp, and down to 380lbs...

Red ain't that bad!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Flanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 08:37 PM   #878
Grinderman
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Grinderman's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Chico CA, Where the NUTS come from!!
Oddometer: 150
UH........
Grinderman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #879
CosentinoEngineering
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 185
OK, back to posting!

Hi, I'm back! Although I have not been posting I have been active on the project but pictures of me sitting doing CAM is pretty boring. Thankfully I am back to a machining stage again and those pictures are fun!

the first step was to machine the fixture that will be the main drilling and welding fixture for the headstock. This is made from beefy 1.5x3" steel bar stock for good stiffness when machining the frame. I started with a long bar, cut it into 3 pieces then machined features for an accurate 'C' shaped fixture that locates in the headstock bores.


That little horizontal bandsaw seems dinky but makes a nice square unattended cut.

I then machined each part with dowel pins keeping alignment tight and a few screws to hold it all together.

and

These parts bolted together around the steering stem using turned inserts to lock them all in alignment with the frame.

Note dual use of sprockets are spacers. Nice. Also note bronze bushing for the 'spindle' bearings. This was pressed in and bored in place to a tight tolerance. It worked great.

I rigged up a way to align the drilling axis to be perpendicular to the output shaft sprocket. It looks crude but I was able to take accurate measurements.


All that was needed was to put the drill on the end of the shaft and make the cut. A but nerve wracking to start but once the hole saw was in the cut it sounded as solid as my BP mill. The cut was done, leaving a very good surface finish considering it was from a holesaw.


and


Once the cut was done I machined a plastic plug to accurately gauge the actual diameter of the hole. It was a few thousandths oversize, not unexpected, and with this accurate measurement I will machine the bevel drive spigot to be a very snug fit. Remember, the less of a gap there is in a welded joint the less distortion from welding.


Now that this fixture is clamped in place and the headstock hole drilled I can't remove the fixture from the frame until both the bevel drive spigot and the transfer case mount are welded in place. Using the same fixture in the same clamping operation will ensure the best possible alignment.

I'm about to machine the transfer case mounting brackets so will have another post up in a day or so. Now that everything is worked out progress will happen rapidly. So yes, the KTM rally in Sept is the target.
__________________
Chris
moto2-usa.blogspot.com
Check out my products 10% off for ADV rider members
CosentinoEngineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 02:45 PM   #880
CosentinoEngineering
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 185
To answer a few previous questions:

>>Couldn't you line the box that holds the chain and sprockets with something like delrin? then no grease required.. Like timing chain guides.

The delrin guides are good for keeping the chain in a nice path and not fluttering but don't help the metal-to-metal contact at the sprockets or the internal link movement. That's what the grease, or splashed oil in the timing chain case, is for.

>>I am confused here, if the idea is to end up with a 990 engine with carbs, would it not be easier to put a 990 engine and run it with the carbs and wiring etc that you already have and effectively do the carb conversion, rather than try and make the 950 into a 990, wouldn't the end results be the same? or am I missing something.

The idea was to give someone with a 950 a 1020 or someone with a 990 a 1080. No locating a new engine in unknown condition, just swap out parts and have a new top end to boot.

Either way, I don't think the KTM cylinders are capable for an over bore or pressed in liner that would give any significant yet reliable displacement increase. These days since I am loaded with work I am shying away from speculative projects.
__________________
Chris
moto2-usa.blogspot.com
Check out my products 10% off for ADV rider members
CosentinoEngineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 05:16 PM   #881
sakurama OP
on an endless build
 
sakurama's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: NYC & PDX
Oddometer: 1,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosentinoEngineering View Post
So yes, the KTM rally in Sept is the target.
I'm booked until the 11th in NYC which means two back to back 900 mile days - as the shakedown? I really don't know what to say...It bodes well that your Rotacular suffered no mechanicals last weekend. Perhaps this will work out okay.

Okay, I'm punting the wheels to Woody. There's no way I'll find the time.

Nice fixture, nice work. Work faster.

Gregor
sakurama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 06:04 PM   #882
CosentinoEngineering
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 185
Let's see what happens. I would have the bike tested before you leave. Or maybe I ride out on it a few days early and fly back. I'm an optimist these days.
__________________
Chris
moto2-usa.blogspot.com
Check out my products 10% off for ADV rider members
CosentinoEngineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 03:04 AM   #883
DRjoe
Beastly Adventurer
 
DRjoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Sunshine coast qld
Oddometer: 5,318
Squeak squeak
DRjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 08:06 PM   #884
CosentinoEngineering
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 185
A little grease.....

Just got done with a bunch of millwork machining the transfer case mount that will be welded to the frame. there are a front and rear spar and a lower mounting plate that uses the original 4 Christini mounting bolts.

It's all 1/4" steel plate with milled pockets and looks pretty good.

The machining went smoothly, it was done with the vice mounted on the trunnion because that was the setup in the mill from making billet TZ cases.





The flat plate bolts to a shelf on the back of the drilling/welding fixture to ensure alignment with the pilot hole we just bored.

The front and rear spar sandwich the plate and were machined to fit snugly between the frame rails. Surprisingly, there was about a 2.5mm difference in the width of the top rails between Gregor's and Tony's frames.

I have not removed the paint and done final fitting on Tony's frame yet. I want to get Gregor's all welded up and verified before hacking away at his. I do have all the parts made so the 2nd frame will go a lot faster than the first.

Because of this big difference the transfer case mount parts had to be machined to be specific to each frame for the best fit. Not what I was hoping for in terms of repeatability but you can only work with the frames we have. If I do more conversions each mount will have to be fitted to each frame, so much for running a bunch of parts!

Tomorrow I'll turn the bevel gear mount parts and weld the cartridge mount into the frame. At that point I will be able to test assemble the entire front end from the transfer case forward. Then its just making a chain housing and mount and then testing!!!!

Its nice to see some good progress. Thanks for everybody's patience, especially Tony, Joe and Gregor. The wait will be worth it.
__________________
Chris
moto2-usa.blogspot.com
Check out my products 10% off for ADV rider members
CosentinoEngineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:42 AM   #885
DRjoe
Beastly Adventurer
 
DRjoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Sunshine coast qld
Oddometer: 5,318
Nice work Chris.

Its looking very special.
DRjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015