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Old 08-01-2009, 10:11 AM   #46
tahoeacr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajory
so the type c pump has the volume and close to the pressure rating. if it is fact a type c i wonder if having the pressure regulator set at 3.5 bar is stressing the pump and causing it to prematurely fail. I will try and find keilin dealer that is willing to bring a pump in.
Won't bother it a bit. All EFI pumps have to have one. The regulator bleeds off the access pressure.
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:36 AM   #47
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As far as flow rates someone just needs to disconnect their fuel line and key on the pump while measuring the flow vs time. Flow rates do change with pressure but we just need a number to start with. I can get actual demand flow rates as I have a fuel flow sensor on my bike. Seems I haven't seen anything higher than 6-7 GPH so any of those pumps Mr vicks posted should work. I will check today. We do need to replace the stocker with something with a higher pressure rating than we run. If you run too close to the limit or higher, they will fail. I learned this by buying too many $500 fuel pumps. They were rated at 90 psi/600lbs hour. I needed 110 psi with far less flow. Finally found a good Bosch with a 125 psi rating and has run for years.
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Old 08-02-2009, 01:18 AM   #48
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If you don't mind me chiming in..

FWIW, a complete fuel pump for a Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom is $662. A fuel filter assembly is $239. Both are in the tank.
A fuel pump for a current model Triumph Tiger is $349.

Just trying to show a price comparative to the 990 and other popular rides.

Too, having perused heavily through the V-Strom and Tiger threads, I can't find a fuel pump failure problem with these bikes such as this one.

In my mind, this is a KTM problem, not the pump manufacturer. Its a crime they don't do some testing of their own, fess up, and retro fit for free the problem bikes.

Greetings from Arctic Alaska.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:01 AM   #49
Yzlvr
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Well I have just over 7000mi on my 08 S model and my I think my fuel pump quit yesterday at the WMRS ride. Bike just stopped. You turn the key on and the pump does not cycle, you can feel motor try to spin like it is frozen. Had the pump out on the trail to try to see if I could fix it, but after an hour nothing. So off to the dealer, still under warranty and I will get it fixed.

I would like to find a replacement motor/pump to carry as a spare, may just have to buy a stock complete unit.

Anyone find the o rings for the base of the pump at an auto part store? I would like to get a spare set, but they are not cheap from KTM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:31 PM   #50
tahoeacr
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Since Yzlvr's pump died with so few miles I thought I better get on a fix before mine leaves me in the dust. Here is my thoughts. Have this installed at a convenient time in your garage so when the stocker dies on the trail you just switch over to this one and go. When you get home you could pull the dead stocker and cap off the tank for a little more fuel capacity anyways. I already have the pump and pressure regulator picked out. Mount the pump under the battery and tee it into the crossover line between the tanks. Pressure line runs up to the regulator at the front of the airbox. Overflow pressure goes back in the tank at the crossover on top. Supply line goes back down to the original connector. Factory connector on the supply line. Just unclip stocker and clip in new line. Plug in fuse to turn it on. Wired thru the same circuit as stock fuel pump. Should be able to source everything for $300.00.

Adj. regulator that can support turbocharging or lower FP for mpg.
Anyone in on a kit?
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:56 PM   #51
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Make it happen Jeff....
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:01 PM   #52
ridewestKTM
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Forgive the intrusion

So where is the pressure regulator on the OEM? It's got to be some where right? Why not just any FI pump and the OEM regulator? I have the 950 so I have no clue just interested for friends' sake. Also the state of technology of FI has changed receintly in cars. It's hard on fuel to be pased thru pressure relief - heat and octane issue. Consequently newer cars do something differently - so the question is does the OEM KTM FI system really have a pressure relief?
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:55 PM   #53
tahoeacr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridewestKTM
So where is the pressure regulator on the OEM? It's got to be some where right? Why not just any FI pump and the OEM regulator? I have the 950 so I have no clue just interested for friends' sake. Also the state of technology of FI has changed receintly in cars. It's hard on fuel to be pased thru pressure relief - heat and octane issue. Consequently newer cars do something differently - so the question is does the OEM KTM FI system really have a pressure relief?
You have to have a pressure regulator on all FI. Presssure changes as the Injectors are open longer so the regulator closes down to keep pressure constant. Injectors work best when pressure is kept between 48-52psi. All cars these days use an in-tank fuel pump that has the pressure regulator built in to the module(known as a dead head system). That way there is no return line coming back from the fuel rail. This does heat up the fuel in the tank. It's a trade off as the fuel keeps the pump temps more consistent. The 990 is the same as all is mounted up in the tank. Heat does not effect octane in a sense but does cause the molecules to get to moving around and you end up with fewer per the same amount of fuel=less burn and less hp.

If you can find a pump that will fit into the stock module you could use the stock regulator. Looking at the keihin pumps posted there not even rated high enough and the vibration limit is 2 G's less than the one I'm looking at which is rated at 9G's for 6 hours with a limit of 25G's. Also has a typical 5 minute safe run dry operation. I don't want to have to ever change a pump again water or fuel . The first post in this thread has an excellent picture of the module.
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Old 08-04-2009, 12:10 AM   #54
Gimme 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoeacr
Since Yzlvr's pump died with so few miles I thought I better get on a fix before mine leaves me in the dust. Here is my thoughts. Have this installed at a convenient time in your garage so when the stocker dies on the trail you just switch over to this one and go. When you get home you could pull the dead stocker and cap off the tank for a little more fuel capacity anyways. I already have the pump and pressure regulator picked out. Mount the pump under the battery and tee it into the crossover line between the tanks. Pressure line runs up to the regulator at the front of the airbox. Overflow pressure goes back in the tank at the crossover on top. Supply line goes back down to the original connector. Factory connector on the supply line. Just unclip stocker and clip in new line. Plug in fuse to turn it on. Wired thru the same circuit as stock fuel pump. Should be able to source everything for $300.00.




Adj. regulator that can support turbocharging or lower FP for mpg.
Anyone in on a kit?
I'd be in but a little testing from your self and some pictures of an install would sell it.
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:44 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme 2
I'd be in but a little testing from your self and some pictures of an install would sell it.
+1 on that.

I'd be in for a kit too.. but without the adjustable pressure regulator.
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:24 AM   #56
crashmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzlvr
Well I have just over 7000mi on my 08 S model and my I think my fuel pump quit yesterday at the WMRS ride. Bike just stopped. You turn the key on and the pump does not cycle, you can feel motor try to spin like it is frozen. Had the pump out on the trail to try to see if I could fix it, but after an hour nothing. So off to the dealer, still under warranty and I will get it fixed.

I would like to find a replacement motor/pump to carry as a spare, may just have to buy a stock complete unit.

Anyone find the o rings for the base of the pump at an auto part store? I would like to get a spare set, but they are not cheap from KTM.
Is it possible that only your FP relay failed? They do have a relay on them correct? I dont know where that relay is located though, anyone?

Since I'm headed out on an extended trip I bought a complete assembly. I stripped the regulator, filters, pump, o-rings and will carry them with me instead of carrying the whole unit. I think I paid about $385 for it from the "ktm-parts" website.

As far as the big $57 KTM O ring, obviously made out of some super double top secret alien technology Unobtainium formulated at Area 51.............

I use McMaster Mil spec Viton orings.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#


McMaster part number 1201T321
(Same as 1201T111)
MIL-Spec Viton® Fluoroelastomer O-Ring AS568A Dash Number 932
In stock at $14.82 per Pack
This product is sold in Packs of 10


Here's the specs on the rings........ This is the ring just above the one in the bottom of the base plate.


AS568A Dash Number
932
Type
O-Ring
O-Ring Type
For Straight Thread Tube Fittings
Cross Section Shape
Round
Width
.118"
Inside Diameter
2.337"
Outside Diameter
2.573"
Material
Viton® Fluoroelastomer
Viton® Fluoroelastomer Type
Military Specification
Fractional Tube Size Outside Diameter
2"
Durometer
Hard
Durometer Shore
Shore A: 75
Temperature Range
-15° to +400°F
Color
Black
Specifications Met
Military Specification (MIL)
MIL Specification
MIL-R-83248C
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crashmaster screwed with this post 08-04-2009 at 08:07 AM
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:28 AM   #57
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Or, if you just need 1 o ring, when I get home later this week I can throw one in an envelope and mail it to you, I have a few spares. Might not get there til next week though....
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crashmaster screwed with this post 08-04-2009 at 07:38 AM
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:42 AM   #58
Yzlvr
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You can hear the relay click, and the motor tries to start up for a split second. So I am thinking the motor is locked.

Thanks, I just want to get some spares, but not at $50 for the set.

I think there are 2 sizes, 1 is .5mm larger diameter o ring. Or are you just using 2 of the same?

I will be taking my bike to the dealer today. I will post when they tell me what happened.
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:50 AM   #59
crashmaster
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The only o ring I ever had problems with was the smaller diameter and thicker cross section ring so thats what I picked up for spares.

The other o ring can be found at mcmaster as well, but I dont know the dash number for it. should be easy to find though using Vicks measurement compared to the smaller ring.
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crashmaster screwed with this post 08-04-2009 at 07:56 AM
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:15 AM   #60
tahoeacr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Vicks
+1 on that.

I'd be in for a kit too.. but without the adjustable pressure regulator.
So far I can't find a non-adj. pressure regulator at 3.5 bar that's cheaper.
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