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Old 08-21-2011, 07:29 AM   #16
Donzzilla
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That pesky white resistor under the seat could be a culprit or it is the tail light circuit. For whatever reason, they made them bike to not run if the tail light didn't work. They say it was a safety feature. Try riding one that stalls out every time you push on the rear brake. That's real safe. Check all of the tail light connections. Them little black screw together connectors tend to corrode and make a bad connection on the old crusty wires. I have had good luck with taking them all out and snipping just enough off of the wire, stripping off the sheathing to expose some new clean wire. You can take them connectors apart and clean inside them too. Age does not help them at all. If you have the time and $$$ it's good to put new wires in them all together. They ran through the frame and over time the pressure put on the wires, tends to break them.

If you don't have the time for replacement, try a bell test with a meter to make sure all the wires are making contact all the way through. Make sure you wiggle the wires when testing to see if there's any interuption.

Hope this helps, Zilla!

PS.. Glad yo said you checked the handle bar switch. I had one of them drive me crazy for months. There's a little ball with a tiny spring that makes connection on the multi location switch. It became dis-loged and would roll around in there. Every once in a while it would make contact with the kill button and shut the bike off. Move it around to start it and it would roll away, allowing it to start and run fine, until it hit again. Sometimes it wouldn't roll away and I couldn't get it to start any way. This went on for a while before I found it.
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:46 PM   #17
jcf
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Thanks Zilla - I checked that switch because you had mentioned it earlier in this thread.

Do you know if the wiring diagram was the same for the Model 8 as it was for the Model 23 ? The M8 was 6 volts and the M 23 12 volts .
I can't find a manual for the 8 anywhere and that is the one I need.

That issue with the tail light ?
Was that the same as well with the earlier 200 cc Metralla ?
Because my bike was running, and pretty well when the tail light had the old dead bulb in - it was when I put in the new bulb it stopped sparking.
I put back the old ( dead ) bulb that was in when it was running and it still wouldn't run.

Because the headlights were bright and the spark strong - when it was firing and even the few times it came to life after it stopped running - would that lead you to discount that the stator is bad or should I have that tested ?
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:05 AM   #18
PSchrauber
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You may check the points too, it's very "commen" that they fail too, Check if the surfaces are still aligned to each other, if not grind the parallel using a point file, check the distance which should be 0,4mm.

Ignition point, her I know only the timing for Sherpas which is around 2,5 - 2,7 mm befor OT.

To get rid of any issues from other electric wires or components that are mount, you can
only wire up the main ignition, at least the coils of the Sherpa have an extra eartch connection,
without the spark is weak.

Connection generator to ignition:


The bike may have a carb issue too, I would check the floater and if it work proper, expecially the
floater valve.

Last, I discovered that at least the Bultaco Sherpas like the older multi heat range plugs much more then any single range or modern plug, (classic plug's are available through http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/)
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:30 AM   #19
jcf
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Thanks P ;

That is a very interesting link for the plugs.

I am pretty sure the points are good ( checked and re-checked ) and I went over the carb a number of times and replaced the needle.

It was running great and the spark and lights were strong - until I tried to fix that tail light .
I am clueless as far as electronic stuff
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:06 AM   #20
PSchrauber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcf View Post
Thanks P ;

That is a very interesting link for the plugs.

I am pretty sure the points are good ( checked and re-checked ) and I went over the carb a number of times and replaced the needle.

It was running great and the spark and lights were strong - until I tried to fix that tail light .
I am clueless as far as electronic stuff
When it is not an ignition / crab issue and the bike runs without rear light / brake light and you have now installed the brake light assembly? Then - as already mentioned - you need a resistor for the rear and brake light, if not all energy goes to the rear brake light setup. The not very tiny archaic thingy looks like this:



Connection / where to place and to connect:


See # 08 (Widerstand).
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:52 AM   #21
jcf
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Ha !

I had just finished highlighted that green wire on a copy I found of that diagram you posted before I looked back here !

I called Hughs and was told me to disconnect the green wire at the junction of the three branches of the green wire - to tail light/ resistor/ switch - and that it should run.

Sound about right ?

Thanks again for the help.
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:04 PM   #22
jcf
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Just to follow up;

First, disconnected the (green) wire going to the brake light switch/ tail light/resistor - still no spark.

Followed the wires and found that the rear tire had rubbed the green and black wires headed to the tail light down to about 4 copper strands.
Fixed that but still no spark.

Noticed that the wire headed to the coil was crimped pretty sharply as it went through a hole in a flange on the frame (where the HT cable passed through)

Reconnected that but still no spark.

A friend stopped by and checked the connections and all were good - except that wire coming from the Magneto.
I didn't make a good [re] connection and once that was fixed there was a spark and it fired right up on the first kick ( no gas tank needed )

All the lights functioned.

For a while anyway.
Bike still running well but lost the running light and the low beam....

I have a resistor like the one above - could it be bad ?
Can those be refurbed ? Will cleaning it help ?

To me, the best thing about these old finicky bikes ( beside the way they look and the way they go - when they go) is that they teach you new stuff - with a little help from others in the same proverbial boat.

Thanks
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:19 PM   #23
PSchrauber
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These electrical issues one old bikes are sometimes very difficult to get sorted, but you've got it, very well done.

Applause clap clap clap

To the resistor, I have no clue how this archaic device can be repaird, the only thing I knów aboutit that it get's frightening hot when you ride downhill using the rear brake.

I send you some ressources via PM.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:37 PM   #24
dman
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I had both a 175 Mercurio and a 250 Metralla back in the day (as my only transportation) and they had these kinds of problems when they were less than 10 years old. The ignition systems generally worked fine, but the lighting was a joke. Resistors everywhere to drop voltage and shunt current, with brittle plastics and fragile ceramics. Glad to hear that people are still having fun with them!

-dman
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:04 AM   #25
jcf
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The finally got a copy of the manual for my bike and it shows that there was no resistor on that earlier, 200cc model.

Mine does have one so it must have been put on later.

I keep losing the low beam and the running light but the brake light and the high beam ( relative term ) are unaffected so I just carry a bunch of extra bulbs - as they did back in the day as I understand.

- anyone know of a trick that might fix that issue ?

It really is a great little bike, and has been running very nicely.
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:15 PM   #26
PSchrauber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcf View Post
The finally got a copy of the manual for my bike and it shows that there was no resistor on that earlier, 200cc model.

Mine does have one so it must have been put on later.

I keep losing the low beam and the running light but the brake light and the high beam ( relative term ) are unaffected so I just carry a bunch of extra bulbs - as they did back in the day as I understand.

- anyone know of a trick that might fix that issue ?

...
You can conect a regulator in the wiring, this will cure the bulb eating.

This spanish model connected to earth would be contemporary:

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Old 10-02-2011, 05:59 PM   #27
jcf
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Great !

Thanks a million (miles - I hope )
Got a source for that beauty ?

How was your trip ?
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:42 PM   #28
PSchrauber
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Originally Posted by jcf View Post
Great !

Thanks a million (miles - I hope )
Got a source for that beauty ?

How was your trip ?
The trip was nice (like always) beside the weather conditions that after three nice days turned in very stormy, rainy and cold conditions and stayed that way the rest of the time. But what should I else expect giong far up to the north in September.

Saw this old beauty, (sadly not mine but would be nice to have):


And this more interesting parking one, (just for the age and the color):


The Facomsa part shoulb be available at your Bultaco ressources in the U.S, here in Europe through any dealer that sell's still Bultaco parts like:

- Ivan Cirre,
- Motos Vidal,
- BultacoUK,
- ...

But I would first try in the U.S. cause of the shipping costs that night be higher then the costs for the part itself.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:17 AM   #29
jm-2008
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Weak spark - running issues

Just noticed this thread and hope you have managed to sort out some of the problems

Have owned a 250Mk2 (version with Amal Concentric Carb) since 1978 and whilst I rode it daily for a number of years it's been the when I get time i'l restore it project.

General info & suggestions (apologies if these have been covered previously)

On a stock points ignition electrical configuration for the road bike and many off road versions (Alpina, Frontera) intended to be registered Bultaco powered the brake light from the earth side of the ignition primary coil via a resitor/diode arrangement.

Blown brake light bulb and or faulty resitor/diode assembly will make them hard to start and if running will run poorly (misfire etc)

Best method of eliminating the resistor/diode/bulb and making the bike a 'one kick starter' is to bypass the brake light circuit - simply follow the wiring loom from the engine to the underside of the fuel tank where all the wires terminate on a long straight connector block, pull the green wire coming from the engine side out of the connector block and bolt it to the chassis (ground).

Next check the spark, it will (should) be a very bright healthy blue spark and if all else is set correctly will improve starting significantly.

Note: Stock Metrallas will run OK with the ignition set anywhere from 2.8 - 3.2mm BTDC.
If set at less that 2.8mm BTDC they will occasionally kick back when idling and run backwards! makes for an interesting experience at the traffic lights, if it happens it's a sure sign you need to check the timing.

This will eliminate the voltage drop associated with the resistor/diode arrangement thus improving spark!
Only issue with this is obvious lack of brake light but will prove/disprove any theories.

As for blowing headlight bulbs, first thing to check is to ensure the leaf spring contactors on the head light bulb retainer have sufficient pressure on the contacts/terminals.

Poor spring tension will result in erratic contact causing voltage spikes and regular bulb failure.

Can be remedied by bending the leaf spring style contractors to increase pressure on the bulb.

Hope this information is useful and apologies to all if this has been posted previously.
Regards,
JM

jm-2008 screwed with this post 01-29-2012 at 01:50 PM
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:14 AM   #30
whittrated03
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Fuel tank cap vent

I kicked and pushed an Astro for hours until I found the fuel tank vent was clogged with a turd of varnish (old gas).
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