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Old 05-23-2009, 02:14 PM   #16
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
Has anyone tried a vacuum evacuator to remove the FD lube? I've used one to change the oil in a four stroke outboard motor and a lawn mower engine. It seems like it would work for the FD.
The gears are too close to the housing, it wont work.

Jim
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:35 PM   #17
whisperquiet
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The new final drive service bulletin.......

Measure no. Subject

US 23342824-01 Increased wear in the rear-wheel drive

Status date (mm/dd/yy) Status PQM Problem reference

4/15/09 Accepted

Date created (mm/dd/yy) Created by Organization

4/15/09 Rainer Wanninger US, MOT

Release date (mm/dd/yy) Approved by Dealer release

Allow automatic release

Vehicles affected

E series Engine Body

K25 K25/02 K25/03 K25/11 K25/12
K25/HP K26 K26/02 K27 K28
K29 K29/HP K40 K40/11 K43
K43/11 K43/HV K44 K44/31

Production period (from/to) Feedback (all cases relating to
(mm/dd/yy) Comment on production period measure up to) (mm/dd/yy)
/

Complaint

The rear-wheel drive displays premature wear in the form of leaking shaft sealing rings or an increased bearing clearance.


Cause

1. Increased temperature and high pressure lead to premature wear on the shaft sealing rings.
2. Metallic abrasion, which is constantly increasing when the vehicle is in motion, significantly shortens the lifetime of
the bearings in the rear-wheel drive.
Measure


For point 1: The gear oil capacities have changed for initial filling and when changing the oil in the rear-wheel drive.
The new capacities:
For initial filling: 200 ml
For changing oil: 180 ml
(The new RSD 05/2009 contains this modification)


For point 2: Regular oil change in rear-wheel drive:
At 600 mi.
every 12,000 mi or every 2 years
(This service interval is all ready in place)


Fault

Fault location Nature of fault Condition

Drive, Drive train, Rear drive Noise While driving


Defect

Main group

33 rear axle

Subgroup

10 Rear wheel drive

Location

00 Rear wheel drive

Defect code Defect description
3310002100 Rear wheel drive Excessive

tooth backlash
Module Area Fault code

Powertrain

CIP / DIS
System State Version
___________________________
Tech. Office report
__________________________________________________ ______________________________
Report no. Subject Link Condition
23344826 Increased wear in the rear-Approved
wheel drive
___________________________
Measure AG
__________________________________________________ ______________________________
Measure no. Subject
AG 23342824-01 Increased wear in the rear-wheel drive

2002-2009 BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.


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Old 05-28-2009, 08:50 AM   #18
Throttlerocker!
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Pressure build up=seal leaks?

I lowered my oil level after a short ride as per the update and had an air pressure build up that released when the drain plug was removed. I'm thinking the seals are more apt to leak from this pressure more so than the higher oil level. What do you think?
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:47 AM   #19
Longer
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I have a 2004 R1200GS, I see that the posts all refer to 2005 and newer. Can any clarify for me what I should be doing with the fluid level? I did mine last year and used JVB's video. So far it's been fine, no weeping or anything. I have 60,000km on my bike.

Any insight would be great.

Thanks!!!

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Old 05-28-2009, 01:25 PM   #20
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longer
I have a 2004 R1200GS, I see that the posts all refer to 2005 and newer. Can any clarify for me what I should be doing with the fluid level? I did mine last year and used JVB's video. So far it's been fine, no weeping or anything. I have 60,000km on my bike.

Any insight would be great.

Thanks!!!

Longer
You can safely leave the level as is, or open the 9:00 plug and drain it to level with the plug, your choice.

When I made the video 220ml was the standard, now BMW says 180ml.

Jim
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:29 PM   #21
Longer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
You can safely leave the level as is, or open the 9:00 plug and drain it to level with the plug, your choice.

When I made the video 220ml was the standard, now BMW says 180ml.

Jim
10-4. Thanks Jim! I'm due to change my fluid pretty soon anyway, I'll go with the 180 going forward I guess.

Regards,
Longer
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:54 PM   #22
Motor-110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
You can safely leave the level as is, or open the 9:00 plug and drain it to level with the plug, your choice. ...now BMW says 180ml.

Jim
Jim

Are you saying if we (I) open the FD drain plug in it's current position (without dropping the FD) will be ~180ml left in the FD?

I will be adjusting mine this weekend in either event. Also, if that is the case, we could use the drain plug as the fill point and not have to deal with the tedious process of filling through the fill point behind the caliper.

Please advise....

Mike
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:45 PM   #23
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor-110
Jim

Are you saying if we (I) open the FD drain plug in it's current position (without dropping the FD) will be ~180ml left in the FD?

I will be adjusting mine this weekend in either event. Also, if that is the case, we could use the drain plug as the fill point and not have to deal with the tedious process of filling through the fill point behind the caliper.

Please advise....

Mike
It is probably not to the ml, but I have added 180ml several times, in a variety of bikes, through the 9:00 drain plug.

Jim
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:06 AM   #24
spikesgs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor-110
Jim

Are you saying if we (I) open the FD drain plug in it's current position (without dropping the FD) will be ~180ml left in the FD?

I will be adjusting mine this weekend in either event. Also, if that is the case, we could use the drain plug as the fill point and not have to deal with the tedious process of filling through the fill point behind the caliper.

Please advise....

Mike
i opened my drain plug and drained until it stopped and exactly 40 ml came out and i filled with 220ml 500 miles ago = 180ml left in there....good to go
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:41 AM   #25
Motor-110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spikesgs
i opened my drain plug and drained until it stopped and exactly 40 ml came out and i filled with 220ml 500 miles ago = 180ml left in there....good to go

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, roger .

On the "To-Do List" today
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Old 05-30-2009, 11:07 AM   #26
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18% Reduction In FD Lube? Better?

Good grief BMW now dictates that we put 18% less lube in our FDs to prevent seal failures? Less lube will stop the loss of seals and resulting bearing wear caused from loss of lube? Do I have this correct? The problem as stated in BMW bulletin was: "1. Increased temperature and high pressure lead to premature wear on the shaft sealing rings." So were the higher pressures a resultant of too much lube and/or increased temperatures? If increased temperatures, what generated the unacceptably, seal destroying high temperatures? Does anyone have access to a BMW source who can explain this? I thought that lube fluid aided in cooling, so removing 40 ml seems like it would cause the FD to run hotter. I would love to see the test data for 220ml vs 180ml FD temperatures and internal pressure against the seal [no vents in my FD] at a constant ambient temp and load.

So I guess I need to drain 40 ml of FD lube from my '07 GSA...but first I would really like to understand the counter-intuitive logic of doing so. You know an analysis of the "mechanism of injury"..

Daneel O....you are on inside...comments? Thanks....
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:45 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
1. Increased temperature and high pressure lead to premature wear on the shaft sealing rings.

Should have read " Falure to design a proper venting system lead to higher pressures pushing oil past seals"

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Old 05-31-2009, 06:14 AM   #28
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Question Compromise

Thinking about Wallowa's post, how about 200ml .
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:24 AM   #29
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Good One!

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloy
Thinking about Wallowa's post, how about 200ml .
Good one Malloy..

Or...."Don't worry about it anyway, the lube never needs to be changed in the new FDs"....well, maybe once at 600 miles...OK...perhaps at 24K...75W90?; no many dealers use 75W140....how much? Standby I will get back to you on that one...
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:37 AM   #30
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nice discount from bmw on my next service as they are using less oil.....in your dreams mate
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