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Old 05-31-2009, 01:35 PM   #31
Groucho
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Doh. I just filled it to 220 just minutes ago.

Measured the amount drained to make sure they matched... and I was proud of myself was they did.

Guess I'll back out the drain plug to let a little out.

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Old 06-01-2009, 05:27 AM   #32
tagesk
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Question GSpot FAQ

I've updated the GSpot FAQ (question 5.7) with this new information.
Can someone review the summary for technical accuracy?

[TaSK]
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:00 AM   #33
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
I've updated the GSpot FAQ (question 5.7) with this new information.
Can someone review the summary for technical accuracy?

[TaSK]
Looks good, but I would switch the update to the top with an explaination on the bottom of how it was. It can be confusing, and some people will read line one and skip the rest.

Jim
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:24 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Looks good, but I would switch the update to the top with an explanation on the bottom of how it was. It can be confusing, and some people will read line one and skip the rest.

Jim
That would be better.
The oil change should read every 12,000 mi or 20,000 Km or 2 years. The recommended oil is 75W90 synthetic gear oil.
Also, some countries had the R1200GS in '04 apparently, so it should probably read all R1200GS '04-'05 and on.

Thanks for your update.
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:22 AM   #35
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Question Same Question And a New One...

Same question: Why is the recommended [or is that specified?] FD lube volume down from 220 ml to 180 ml ? How does it remedy the problem?


New question:

BMW stated that the problem was:

"Defect code Defect description
3310002100 Rear wheel drive Excessive
tooth backlash
Module Area Fault code"


Can someone explain in simple terms [so I can understand..] how reducing the amount of lubricant will prevent excess gear backlash?

I love the forum for exchange of information, but, just for me, I am only really feel comfortable buying into information or recommendations that I can see the logic in....sorta, trust with verification approach..no slight to anyone's views but I rarely suspend my analytical approach to issues and just defer to a 'higher authority'..in this case BMW.

Thanks for any and all input...
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:00 PM   #36
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Same question: Why is the recommended [or is that specified?] FD lube volume down from 220 ml to 180 ml ? How does it remedy the problem?


New question:

BMW stated that the problem was:

"Defect code Defect description
3310002100 Rear wheel drive Excessive
tooth backlash
Module Area Fault code"


Can someone explain in simple terms [so I can understand..] how reducing the amount of lubricant will prevent excess gear backlash?

I love the forum for exchange of information, but, just for me, I only really feel comfortable buying into information or recommendations that I can see the logic in....sorta, trust with verification approach..no slight to anyone's views but I rarely suspend my analytical approach to issues and just defer to a 'higher authority'..in this case BMW.

Thanks for any and all input...
Honestly Phil, I don't think anyone here really know's! We can only assume the factory engineers have worked out the reasoning and come to this conclusion. The bulitin posted stated the apparent cause and effect, at least what they are telling the dealers.

Jim
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Old 06-01-2009, 04:00 PM   #37
cjack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Same question: Why is the recommended [or is that specified?] FD lube volume down from 220 ml to 180 ml ? How does it remedy the problem?


New question:

BMW stated that the problem was:

"Defect code Defect description
3310002100 Rear wheel drive Excessive
tooth backlash
Module Area Fault code"


Can someone explain in simple terms [so I can understand..] how reducing the amount of lubricant will prevent excess gear backlash?

I love the forum for exchange of information, but, just for me, I am only really feel comfortable buying into information or recommendations that I can see the logic in....sorta, trust with verification approach..no slight to anyone's views but I rarely suspend my analytical approach to issues and just defer to a 'higher authority'..in this case BMW.

Thanks for any and all input...
I think the bulletin was addressing two issues. One was oil quantity reduction to address the issue of seal damage and seal seepage. The second issue was changing the oil periodically so that the residual metal powder in the drive from wear over time did not cause abnormal wear to the bearings and create excess gear backlash.
At least that's what I got from it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 04:01 PM   #38
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Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Looks good, but I would switch the update to the top with an explaination on the bottom of how it was. It can be confusing, and some people will read line one and skip the rest.

Jim
Fixed.

[TaSK]
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Old 06-01-2009, 04:39 PM   #39
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I'm sticking with 220 until everyone is done testing the new level.
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:48 PM   #40
Wallowa
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Hmmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjack
I think the bulletin was addressing two issues. One was oil quantity reduction to address the issue of seal damage and seal seepage. The second issue was changing the oil periodically so that the residual metal powder in the drive from wear over time did not cause abnormal wear to the bearings and create excess gear backlash.
At least that's what I got from it.

Hi Jack..yes the bulletin does recommend putting less lube in the FD and at last recommending a schedule for changing the FD lube...from "seal for life", to, Oops make that once at 600 miles to every 12,000....

I read this as an attempt to stop the failure of FDs by limiting or stopping the loss of lube past the seal....you know the lube is lost and gears, bearings self-digest...problem is not all of the failed FDs [check Iron Butt] had seal failures....soooooo, perhaps BMW will see fit to explain to BMW owners with the 'at-risk' FDs what the cause and effect logic is behind the reduction of lubricant levels for the prevention of gear/bearing failures...ya right! Don't hold your breath...

It may be just that I am missing something basic but less lubricant to prevent gear or bearing galling seems....well...the child ain't right..

If you hear something explaining why these recommendations will save our FDs on the BMW forum please post them here on the GSpot..

Thanks!
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Old 06-01-2009, 05:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
I read this as an attempt to stop the failure of FDs by limiting or stopping the loss of lube past the seal....you know the lube is lost and gears, bearings self-digest...problem is not all of the failed FDs [check Iron Butt] had seal failures
Thanks!
I see the reduction in oil quantity as an attempt to reduce the chance of seal failure period.
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:18 PM   #42
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I own an '07 GSA.........per the new BMW service bulletin, it now takes 180cc of 75w90 gear lube. I use Mobil 1........YMMV and it is what I used for the 180cc refill. I owned three Honda ST1300 motorcycles.......they use 160cc of 75w90 gear oil and I used Mobil 1.

Plus, the ST1300 makes about 25% more horsepower and uses 20cc less than the beloved R1200GS for the fill quantity ......go figure. Just change the final drive gear oil on your 1200GS/A every 12,000 miles or so, refill with 180cc of your favorite 75w90 gear oil, and ride the SOB. It is that easy. WTF
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:14 PM   #43
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Aren't You Just A Tad Bit Curious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperquiet
I own an '07 GSA.........per the new BMW service bulletin, it now takes 180cc of 75w90 gear lube. I use Mobil 1........YMMV and it is what I used for the 180cc refill. I owned three Honda ST1300 motorcycles.......they use 160cc of 75w90 gear oil and I used Mobil 1.

Plus, the ST1300 makes about 25% more horsepower and uses 20cc less than the beloved R1200GS for the fill quantity ......go figure. Just change the final drive gear oil on your 1200GS/A every 12,000 miles or so, refill with 180cc of your favorite 75w90 gear oil, and ride the SOB. It is that easy. WTF
I agree WTF...two points the FD volumes [not lube volume used but the volume and design of cases and gears] of the ST1300 and the GSA may or may not be even in the same ball park..so apples to oranges..as for the type of lube, specifically the viscosity range, that has been pounded around for a long time on this and other BMW forums...yes the manual says 75W90 and yes, many of us have had BMW dealers put in BMW's synth 75W140 in our FDs...go figure.

Perhaps less lube means fewer seal failures....but is that all that was causing the FD failures? Curious? What do you think? Remember not all failed FDs had leaked lube [seal failure]....less lube to save gears seems silly, but keeping some lube inside the FD [no seal failure] makes sense...and as you say perhaps 180 ml is more than enough...but who the hell knows why BMW took this approach to reducing FD failures...and of course the million dollar question: will putting in less lube make the FDs more reliable...I have no answers only questions...but surely others must be curious as I am...or if not just ride the SOB.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:55 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Perhaps less lube means fewer seal failures....but is that all that was causing the FD failures?
Do you know of any failures that were oil related?

I've read of three failure modes:
1) lack of oil due to a seal failure
2) loose wheel flange fit on the splined axle
3) Pinion bearing failure

The new recommendation might help with 1. It will have no effect on the wheel flange. BMW changed the size of the pinion bearing in the newer drives which implies that the failure had nothing to do with oil.

What other failure modes have you heard of?
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:09 AM   #45
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Went to my dealer in Australia today to confirm before i change my FD oil this weekend , they know nothing about about a bulletin and their oil change amount is still 220ml.
Im not sure if this is worldwide or just North America. This would mean I have to keep using 220 ml to keep my warranty intact here. They told me the same occurrs with goldwings, bulletins not being worldwide.
Has anyone heard different in Australia. .......

Ok an update, i got through to BMW Aust. today and their tech confirmed the .180 ml refill amount and are going to let the dealer know

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