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Old 06-02-2009, 07:30 PM   #61
cjack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
New Rules say 180 ml....might just be a way for BMW of making servicing the FD easier...by filling through drain hole after you drain it.
I think BMW had a number of seal leak warranties. So they reduced the fill to reduce the pressure pushing the fluid out thru the seals. Right or wrong about that result, an attempt to save warranty expense at no cost to the longevity of the drive. Half full of oil must have been determined more than adequate. As to whether is reduces the pressure, it seems like we can think of ways to prove yes and no. Maybe they did it and measured the pressure instead of the theories.
At the same time, there must have been some bearing wear issues. The one I have heard about was the pinion bearing. That has been made a bit longer. I wonder if that gives it more stability...less wiggle as the crown gear is engaged and disengaged with force and then less wear to all parts. And changing the drive oil, getting the metal powder out, is apparently part of the answer to wear as well. No mystery there anyway.
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Old 06-02-2009, 07:55 PM   #62
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Seriously?

How can it make servicing easier when the drain hole was moved to the bottom of the FD two years ago. [/quote]

As I said filling the FD through the drain hole makes servicing it easier.

Draining is not the slow process; and there are a lot of GSs that don't have a 6 o'clock drain plug ...filling through the sensor hole is excrutiatingly slow...so re-filling through the drain hole is a hell of a lot easier....

Just my take....
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:08 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huggybear
Did You read the part where I said that both wheels were on the level ground and only a splash came out when the plug was removed and that if the dealor put the 220ML in the final drive then the bottom of the threads is and always was the correct level for fluid amount 220MLthe same as it has been on every car,truck and motorcycle I have ever owned,take out the plug and if the fluid is close to the threads Your good to go
I did, thanks for asking.

In regards to the bike being on it's wheels, what does that have to do with anything (other than the orientation of the drain plug)? Point is, as marchyman pointed out earlier is, that it is 180ml at the end of the day. Now, I have never seen a BMW tech do the service with the bike in any other position other than on the center stand. If your point is that it could be conceivably be filled up to ~220ml level with the wheels on the ground, that would be good if 220 was the magic number.

Oz has pulled the strings and the new magic number is 180.

I think we have beat this one up pretty good in short order.

I am out.
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Motor-110 screwed with this post 06-02-2009 at 08:48 PM
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:34 PM   #64
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Quote:
As I said filling the FD through the drain hole makes servicing it easier.
For the last two plus years the drain hole has been on the BOTTOM of the FD. How does that make it easier? Or do you think that BMW changed the recommended oil level just to make it easier for you?

There is NO specification for oil level with respect to the drain plug. The specification is now for 180 ML on an oil change. Just measure out 180 ML and put it in the FD however you please. Why is that so hard? Why insist that there must be some special relationship between the drain plug and the oil level.
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:51 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchyman
For the last two plus years the drain hole has been on the BOTTOM of the FD. How does that make it easier? Or do you think that BMW changed the recommended oil level just to make it easier for you?

There is NO specification for oil level with respect to the drain plug. The specification is now for 180 ML on an oil change. Just measure out 180 ML and put it in the FD however you please. Why is that so hard? Why insist that there must be some special relationship between the drain plug and the oil level.


There does seem to be a coincidental relationship with the 9:00 plug, but asking for a precision 180 ml from filling to the drain plug is unreasonable due to variations in bikes, configurations, and levelness of the floor.

That said, it seems obvious to me that a "precise" 180ml is not critical, so long as you come close, with an error to overfilling, you should be just fine! IMHO! The 1100/115o0 drain and fill to the bottom of the fill plug was never particularly precise either.

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Old 06-03-2009, 05:02 AM   #66
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For my '08 GS, when I told them about my putting in 200ml, the service department stated to me that they put in 250ml and that 250ml IS the correct amount. They attributed references to 220ml or 180ml or splitting the difference at 200ml to why they "hate the internet!"
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:27 AM   #67
huggybear
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[quote=malloy]Funny thing! When I had the outer seal on the FD of my 2005 R1200GS replaced under warranty in 2007 the dealer refilled it through the 9 o'clock drain plug, without pivoting the FD into the downward position as JVB and others (including the early rep roms?) demonstrate.

Was this dealer ahead of its time? Maybe only partially as the tech did use 75-140 to do it.[/quot

I will bet It was just a top off to the bottom of the threads as replacing the seal ,You don't have to drain the FD
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:16 AM   #68
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Filling/Draining.

Only reason for tilting the swing arm down is to drain not to fill. No reason not to use the same drain hole to fill though. Don't put too much faith in BMW. Arn't these guys the same people that decided the FD didn't need an oil change as it was a lifetime a couple of years ago, hense the 9 oclock fill/drain hole.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:45 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSG2G
For my '08 GS, when I told them about my putting in 200ml, the service department stated to me that they put in 250ml and that 250ml IS the correct amount. They attributed references to 220ml or 180ml or splitting the difference at 200ml to why they "hate the internet!"
Your dealer is an idiot!

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Old 06-03-2009, 09:12 PM   #70
JR356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSG2G
For my '08 GS, when I told them about my putting in 200ml, the service department stated to me that they put in 250ml and that 250ml IS the correct amount. They attributed references to 220ml or 180ml or splitting the difference at 200ml to why they "hate the internet!"
Yes they are idiots,obviously they don't even read BMW's own service bulletins!
The fill amout they are using was the previous recommendation for a dry fill
on a new or newly rebuilt FD with no lube in it.
So they were incorrect on two counts,by not using the new recommendation and by using the dry fill amount,instead of the correct refill amount.

Print post #17 and show it to them,of course they won't believe you since it "came from the internet",even though its BMW's own bulletin.

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Old 06-03-2009, 09:14 PM   #71
Wallowa
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Gee..And?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Your dealer is an idiot!

Jim
Come on Jim...that is unique?...75W140 put in FDs by one hell of a lot of BMW dealers...a lot BMW dealers who denied that FD ever needed to have the lube changed and who could forget the dealers that said the EWS strandings/failures were an affectation of the internet...sure BMW dealers and BMW NA are a stand up group...

Being forthcoming and honest with the owners is not a forte of BMW or many, not all, BMW dealers. In defense of the dealers BMW treats the dealers and owners like mushrooms..you know, keeps us in the dark and feeds us BS...I love the bike but have no trust of the company. Just my feelings...

220 ml...180 ml....the same old shell game!
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:50 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Come on Jim...that is unique?...75W140 put in FDs by one hell of a lot of BMW dealers...a lot BMW dealers who denied that FD ever needed to have the lube changed and who could forget the dealers that said the EWS strandings/failures were an affectation of the internet...sure BMW dealers and BMW NA are a stand up group...

Being forthcoming and honest with the owners is not a forte of BMW or many, not all, BMW dealers. In defense of the dealers BMW treats the dealers and owners like mushrooms..you know, keeps us in the dark and feeds us BS...I love the bike but have no trust of the company. Just my feelings...

220 ml...180 ml....the same old shell game!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSG2G
For my '08 GS, when I told them about my putting in 200ml, the service department stated to me that they put in 250ml and that 250ml IS the correct amount. They attributed references to 220ml or 180ml or splitting the difference at 200ml to why they "hate the internet!"



You missed this!

Jim
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:44 PM   #73
Wallowa
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No Not Really..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSG2G
For my '08 GS, when I told them about my putting in 200ml, the service department stated to me that they put in 250ml and that 250ml IS the correct amount. They attributed references to 220ml or 180ml or splitting the difference at 200ml to why they "hate the internet!"






You missed this!

Jim
No I was merely adding the "250ml" to the list of goofy things BMW and some BMW dealers do...I know you saw that in my post....heck, I can move, adapt or die and fixing what is wrong with our bikes is no big deal in most cases...but we need factual information to base our decisions on.

We need BMW to provide owners with accurate information to fix what goes wrong...honestly, this and other forums are the definitive source of information about the bikes we own...since BMW does not communicate to BMW owners and only communicates with dealers in a half-assed way and then haphazardly we can only guess about issues with our bikes...

Ah, this is old ground and the status-quo is just that
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:20 PM   #74
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
No I was merely adding the "250ml" to the list of goofy things BMW and some BMW dealers do...I know you saw that in my post....heck, I can move, adapt or die and fixing what is wrong with our bikes is no big deal in most cases...but we need factual information to base our decisions on.

We need BMW to provide owners with accurate information to fix what goes wrong...honestly, this and other forums are the definitive source of information about the bikes we own...since BMW does not communicate to BMW owners and only communicates with dealers in a half-assed way and then haphazardly we can only guess about issues with our bikes...

Ah, this is old ground and the status-quo is just that
Can't argue with any of that!

Jim
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:48 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSG2G [QUOTE
service department stated to me that they put in 250ml and that 250ml IS the correct amount. They attributed references to 220ml or 180ml or splitting the difference at 200ml to why they "hate the internet!"[/
QUOTE]
I have more faith in the knowledge here then at the dealer.
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