ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-06-2009, 05:33 AM   #91
Remy
Woe is uh a me bop!
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Irondale, Alabama
Oddometer: 879
It sure seems like BMW has been urinating in the breeze on this one!
Remy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 07:49 AM   #92
Bill 310
Poser Emeritus
 
Bill 310's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Hopefully Upright
Oddometer: 2,984
Just to add to the confusion, I have begun sending my rear drive oil and engine oil off to a lab for analysis. I want to see what is happening every change to the oil.

It will be interesting if the metal count soars just before a rear drive failure. I am familiar with the Iron Butt Rally and BMW final drives and since I have similar riding patterns I thought a little lab work was in order.
__________________
Canada "It's a rough place, son. In fact, you have to puke twice and show your razor just to get in. Better grow some whiskers if you wanna go to Canada." Ronnie Hawkins when asking Levon Helm to join his band and play in Canada.
Bill 310 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 09:34 AM   #93
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,175
Bill..Please Post Results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill 310
Just to add to the confusion, I have begun sending my rear drive oil and engine oil off to a lab for analysis. I want to see what is happening every change to the oil.

It will be interesting if the metal count soars just before a rear drive failure. I am familiar with the Iron Butt Rally and BMW final drives and since I have similar riding patterns I thought a little lab work was in order.
The FD lube analysis would be very helpful...please post them as you get them done..thanks.
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 10:04 AM   #94
Bill 310
Poser Emeritus
 
Bill 310's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Hopefully Upright
Oddometer: 2,984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
The FD lube analysis would be very helpful...please post them as you get them done..thanks.
They are in PDF's and have my personal info in them.

I will see if I can open them up at work and cut and paste the oil data out to a word doc.

It is only relevant if a bunch of us start paying for these oil studies to be done and we start to get indicators prior to a failure. I am not a metallurgist nor an engineer but my clients who run big cats swear by this process of oil analysis so I thought WTFN I will give it a try as well.

I think I can safely say if I get a lot of metal showing up and then my drive pooches there may be a co-relation occurring ; getting BMW to participate in that discussion is another issue.
__________________
Canada "It's a rough place, son. In fact, you have to puke twice and show your razor just to get in. Better grow some whiskers if you wanna go to Canada." Ronnie Hawkins when asking Levon Helm to join his band and play in Canada.
Bill 310 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 02:51 PM   #95
Killa Meter
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Clownsville
Oddometer: 265
My brother who is a seal & bearing tech tells me that in sealed systems excess pressure can sometimes tighten the seal on the sealing surface and prematurely wearing out the seal.
Killa Meter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 03:14 PM   #96
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,175
Blackstone...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill 310
They are in PDF's and have my personal info in them.

I will see if I can open them up at work and cut and paste the oil data out to a word doc.

It is only relevant if a bunch of us start paying for these oil studies to be done and we start to get indicators prior to a failure. I am not a metallurgist nor an engineer but my clients who run big cats swear by this process of oil analysis so I thought WTFN I will give it a try as well.

I think I can safely say if I get a lot of metal showing up and then my drive pooches there may be a co-relation occurring ; getting BMW to participate in that discussion is another issue.
I had one analysis on my engine oil by Blackstone and will get the second one done next week...I will also request a sample container for my FD lube...great idea to watch for contaminants in FD lube..

Hey Killa...overpressure forcing the seal against the shaft causing excessive wear makes a lot of sense...only issues: does dropping 18% of the lube volume really reduce total pressure inside the FD [vapor + hydraulic] and what is the relationship between the internal FD pressure at 220 ml VS at 180 ml and the failure of FDs? Remembering that many FDs failed without a seal failure. If you think about it, since lubricants also cool the surfaces via conductive then radiant heat loss, less lube should result in higher temperatures and higher temps increase vapor pressure. I am not an engineer, but I will bet that the coefficient of expansion is higher on the vapor/gas inside the FD than the lube and therefore most of the internal pressure is vapor pressure. Assuming some mysterious nexus between internal FD pressure and FD failures even exists.

Interesting stuff... only wish we really knew what was going on!
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 05:04 PM   #97
Whiskey Tango
Formerly "GSG2G"
 
Whiskey Tango's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Oddometer: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Yet more proof that you can't trust a dealer just because they are a dealer!

Jim
+1 !!!
__________________
'09 Kawasaki Concours 14 - High Speed Low Drag
'08 H-D Fat Boy - Fat Iron for the little bars (103ci, cams, few other goodies)
'10 H-D FLHR Road King
'09 KLR 650 - Black Ops Black R.I.P.
'04 H-D Heritage Softtail - Daytona Special
Drive Medical Design & Manuf. 9-spoke

Many, many formers; some R.I.P.

All Will Die But Not All Will Live

1*
Whiskey Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 05:07 PM   #98
Whiskey Tango
Formerly "GSG2G"
 
Whiskey Tango's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Oddometer: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by huggybear
Maybe BMW will get the hint and bring back the 6 o'clock drain and 9 o'clock fill-level plugs,[ from the less modern day's]
You mean like 99.9% of the differentials/final drives out there covering millions upon millions of miles?? You mean like that?
__________________
'09 Kawasaki Concours 14 - High Speed Low Drag
'08 H-D Fat Boy - Fat Iron for the little bars (103ci, cams, few other goodies)
'10 H-D FLHR Road King
'09 KLR 650 - Black Ops Black R.I.P.
'04 H-D Heritage Softtail - Daytona Special
Drive Medical Design & Manuf. 9-spoke

Many, many formers; some R.I.P.

All Will Die But Not All Will Live

1*
Whiskey Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 05:00 AM   #99
f650gs
Studly Adventurer
 
f650gs's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Rockhampton, Qld Australia
Oddometer: 645
This was the result from my HP2 FD oil analysis........

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262217
__________________
Jack , Team Camel Touring
Just another old, washed up, has been, dirt bike rider...that can't ride for $hit........
Rockhampton, Qld Australia
f650gs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009, 07:46 PM   #100
hammick
Beastly Adventurer
 
hammick's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Oddometer: 1,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango
You mean like 99.9% of the differentials/final drives out there covering millions upon millions of miles?? You mean like that?
And how about a fuel level float while they are at it.
__________________
2015 R1200 GSA (on order)
2014 S1000R
2013 KTM 500 XC-W
hammick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009, 07:51 PM   #101
hammick
Beastly Adventurer
 
hammick's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Oddometer: 1,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuono Rider
New to the forum....great info to be had.

Just recently had the 600 mile service performed on my new GS. Have been following this forum, and decided to tinker with the dealer's work.

Drained the FD just to see how much was in there....this is what came out.







You are looking at around 13 oz, or 384 ml of gear oil !

I put the measuring cup you see above under the FD when I pulled the drain plug. She started draining pretty quickly, and I was expecting it to slow down by the time the level reached the 1/2 cup level.....nope, just kept chugging along. Was able to get the small bottle from my workbench before it overflowed from the measuring cup. Kept right on going until what you see in these pictures.

I could not believe it....the service was done at a very reputable dealer here in Houston.

I had a feeling something might be amiss when I first pulled the filler plug....some fluid started coming out. I put it off as some residual product left behind the plug from the pinion spinning it up.

Needless to say, I am glad I decided to check their work ! Not very cool.....not very cool at all.
A friend of mine just had a new final drive on his '07 K1200GT under warranty and it started leaking. He drained it and measured 250 ml. Put in 180ml and no problems.

Seems like a lot of dealers are clueless.


BTW I have another friend with an '08 GT that has a 9:00 plug. I thought they went to 6:00 plugs on the late model '07s. Is it likely his drive has been replaced prior to his purchase? It was a new bike when he bought it.
__________________
2015 R1200 GSA (on order)
2014 S1000R
2013 KTM 500 XC-W
hammick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009, 09:44 PM   #102
jetpoweredmonkey
Rider of the Lost Empire
 
jetpoweredmonkey's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Oddometer: 185
I just did the 600 mile service on my '09 GSA. I put a measuring cup under the final drive, which I assume was filled by the factory, and drained out about 195cc of oil. I put about the same amount of oil back in. I am willing to bet that a 20cc (180cc - 200cc or so) difference in oil level is not going to matter one bit.

Here's what I'd like to have - an oil fill in the 12:00 position (or the full level position, like on the tranny) on the right side of the friggin' casing where it oughtta be, and would've been if the bike was made in, oh, 1999 or previous, so I don't have to PULL THE STUPID WHEEL OFF to get at the fill plug. WTF??

I guess it would put a wart on that sexy casting. Understood. I'm still going to change the FD and tranny fluid when I change the oil. It's not hard. It doesn't take that long.

As for the whole thing about BMW (and other manufacturers) not putting the latest service data out where we can all get at it, or being vague about lube specs, etc., that seems like good old fashioned common sense to me, at least in the age in which we live. If the consumer doesn't have the data to do his own service, he's probably going to give up on trying to find it pretty quick, and the bike comes back to the dealer for service. This, in my opinion, is BMW looking out for its dealers. Can't blame them. I found the info and did my own service. Dirt simple for me, but completely baffling for some. Again, understandable. The specs *should* be in the manual for all to see.

Another example - on the 600 mile service checklist, it says "Confirm BMW service by entry in onboard documentation". Kinda makes it sound like they are going to plug your bike into the BMW computer and magically "sign off" on it. No. It just means they are going to stamp your owner's manual. Meh.

I'm probably just a Luddite. No, that's not true - I have two fuel injected bikes in my garage and I love not rejetting them when I go up to the mountains. I just hate all the crap around us that attempts to make us pay for what we ought to be able to do ourselves.
jetpoweredmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009, 10:09 PM   #103
GS Addict
Pepperfool
 
GS Addict's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
Oddometer: 3,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpoweredmonkey
I just hate all the crap around us that attempts to make us pay for what we ought to be able to do ourselves.
Hear Hear! and more thoroughly as well.
__________________
Old enough to know better....
Young enough to try it again
GS Addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014