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Old 05-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #31
Nemo DeNovo
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Put an outboard on that hack and you'd really have a "go anywhere" rig!


Nemo DeNovo screwed with this post 05-28-2009 at 03:17 PM
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:35 PM   #32
claude
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[QUOTE=Nemo DeNovo]Put an outboard on that hack and you'd really have a "go anywhere" rig!

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Old 05-28-2009, 04:09 PM   #33
Nemo DeNovo
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There it is, the world's first Triple Sport hack!!!
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:22 PM   #34
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Is it OK to link stuff like this below in red? I’m not sure.

.pdf files, so it may take some people some time to download it.

(77 pages):

BASIC SIDECAR INFO


and (69 pages)(this one goes pretty fast):

MORE BASIC SIDECAR INFO

For the non-readers, there are a lot of drawings in there.

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Old 05-28-2009, 06:45 PM   #35
Bozola
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:10 PM   #36
brockoli
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I do appreciate the more positive comments from the vast majority. Had a pretty crap day thinking about this whole thing and was contemplating on whether or not I should have even sent the info to GetBack. After reading the more positive comments though I think I'll just leave it. People need to realize that the formula is a great starting point and we've installed hundreds of outfits with this formula and it does work very well and saves a lot of time with the setting and resetting of things. So take it for what it is and work with it if you wish, just trying to help, not horn blow. Thanks guys
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:30 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard-NL
Should I nuke the links?

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Old 05-29-2009, 03:50 AM   #38
Nemo DeNovo
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Nuke why? Not a rule violation AFAIK. I saved the first, but the second I can't read. Good stuff anyway.
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:05 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo DeNovo
Nuke why? Not a rule violation AFAIK. I saved the first, but the second I can't read. Good stuff anyway.
The first one is allmost completely a translation of a german booklet, as you must have understood. The second one is in Dutch, but the pics are quite self-explainatory, after you have read the first link, I think. Formulas used in both booklets are pretty much the same and can be used as a basic "guideline".

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Old 05-29-2009, 04:23 AM   #40
Nemo DeNovo
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You should post them in the sticky thread so they stay on top. This thread will drop off the forum eventually.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:42 AM   #41
Richard-NL
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Advised here to put this in this “sticky”.

77 pages in .pdf:

BASIC SIDECAR INFO

69 pages in .pdf:

MORE BASIC SIDECAR INFO

First link is hosted by the USCA

Second link is hosted by Halflive

Allthough this information can be had in different spots, I chose these links, because they seemed to me the most lasting.

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Old 05-29-2009, 05:44 AM   #42
Threewheelbonnie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard-NL
Should I nuke the links?

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I'm tempted to say yes: I just used the info to check my gearing and proved I need to change the front sprocket. That just cost me 20-quid

Great info, thanks for posting

Andy
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:45 AM   #43
Richard-NL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo DeNovo
You should post them in the sticky thread so they stay on top. This thread will drop off the forum eventually.
DONE

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Old 05-30-2009, 08:52 AM   #44
phyllis
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Ockhams Razor!! Get real?

First off I'd like to apologise for my unseemly remark, to whit "Ha Fucken Ha" I was a bit upset.
The joke really is on you. I have doubted the veracity of "wheel lead formula" since Hack'd Magazine published it in 1994 (fall issue). I knew then that it wasn't for real. Perhaps it was meant as a joke, who knows?
The problem is if you do the math, you always get, yes, ALWAYS get 15%!! HUH?? Yes Virginia, 15% of wheel base wether the wheelbase is 48" or 60" or 66". How about 3" "lineal offset'? Still 15% lead. No! No! No! Not every time! I'm affraid so!
However this doesn't mean that there isn't some good in the article, at least it made some of us think! And perhaps re-evaluate our favourite settings. The article mentions all manner of terms that I for one have never heard of, and frankly think are irrelevancies.
Who cares about static scrubbing of the sidecar tyre? It's the dynamic situation that is important to me and most other USERS of that wonderfull yet flawed device that we so love.Who cares that the headstem moves side to side or falls slightly when you turn the bars at a standstill? You don't use much steering input when you're on the move. Your biggest problem is being ABLE to turn the bars with a stock front end. (Getting older, getting weaker...sadly)
The article rabbits on about steering wobble, and it's causes, yet doesn't mention TRAIL.
I could go on and on and on.
The nicest I can be is to call the article "bad science" or "a concoction of irrelevancies" or perhaps "bullshit dressed up as science".
Just one last quote...."when the above formula's are applied together with correct strut angles good results are obtained in the areas of handling, frame flex and above all safety".
Think about that.
Gee Wiz, that is a magic formula! Or maybe it's just a 15% solution?? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Real enough?

Dear Mr Moderator...You made this a new thread, when I posted my initial reply to the "formula". I don't think you should make value judgments about topics you obviously don't understand!!!
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:17 AM   #45
RedMenace
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First, thank you for responding with specifics!

Next, granted for the sake of argument, you are correct that the formula is smoke and mirrors and the solution to the formula will always come up 15%
a) is 15% lead a good number to start with?
b)how do you arrive at wheel lead for your builds(do you have a "favorite #"? What is it and why?)
c) how important to you think wheel lead is? Does it relate to wheelbase, track width and/or trail? In what combination or order of importance?

Finally, the new thread resulted from the manner of your response. It was more in the nature of a personal attack and it lacked substance relating to the theory you were calling in question. A your more recent response, which was much more to the point, might more properly belong in the original thread. No need for a pissing match, when a reasoned rebuttal or debunking will retain a larger audience and provide more valuable insights, eh?

I look forward to learning more about your own approach towards sidecar design and construction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phyllis
First off I'd like to apologise for my unseemly remark, to whit "Ha Fucken Ha" I was a bit upset.
The joke really is on you. I have doubted the veracity of "wheel lead formula" since Hack'd Magazine published it in 1994 (fall issue). I knew then that it wasn't for real. Perhaps it was meant as a joke, who knows?
The problem is if you do the math, you always get, yes, ALWAYS get 15%!! HUH?? Yes Virginia, 15% of wheel base wether the wheelbase is 48" or 60" or 66". How about 3" "lineal offset'? Still 15% lead. No! No! No! Not every time! I'm affraid so!
However this doesn't mean that there isn't some good in the article, at least it made some of us think! And perhaps re-evaluate our favourite settings. The article mentions all manner of terms that I for one have never heard of, and frankly think are irrelevancies.
Who cares about static scrubbing of the sidecar tyre? It's the dynamic situation that is important to me and most other USERS of that wonderfull yet flawed device that we so love.Who cares that the headstem moves side to side or falls slightly when you turn the bars at a standstill? You don't use much steering input when you're on the move. Your biggest problem is being ABLE to turn the bars with a stock front end. (Getting older, getting weaker...sadly)
The article rabbits on about steering wobble, and it's causes, yet doesn't mention TRAIL.
I could go on and on and on.
The nicest I can be is to call the article "bad science" or "a concoction of irrelevancies" or perhaps "bullshit dressed up as science".
Just one last quote...."when the above formula's are applied together with correct strut angles good results are obtained in the areas of handling, frame flex and above all safety".
Think about that.
Gee Wiz, that is a magic formula! Or maybe it's just a 15% solution?? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Real enough?

Dear Mr Moderator...You made this a new thread, when I posted my initial reply to the "formula". I don't think you should make value judgments about topics you obviously don't understand!!!
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