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Old 06-19-2009, 10:45 AM   #151
johngil
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Yes, the cartridge is sealed. It can be disassembled and re-valved as far as I know. I don't know if the cartridges damp though holes or use shims/ valves, etc. Both ends of the cartridge are threaded. There is a nitrogen charge within the cartridge.
That's how it is as I see it, but I'm an electrician.
I took the kit to my suspension guy. He seemed to think he could work w/ it if needed. For the price, I can't imagine these things being too complex or elaborate.

I just peeled out of work early so I can go give mine a whirl. If I don't die a horrible death or wind up in the hospital, I'll give a report later tonight.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:04 PM   #152
eakins
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is it cross threaded?
i'd spin it out first with that impact & check the treads before you go for gold installing it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffchri
I certainly don't have a tool, and not sure how it would work anyway, the top of the damper is round, unlike the OEM dampers that have teeth in the top, presumably to help with this sort of problem. There ARE flats on the Bit dampers, but they are on the other end of the damper, right next to the where the bolt is coming in and far far far away from anything I could use.

I'm wondering if the bolt bound just the tiniest bit on the way in and now just spins the whole thing no matter what I try. I just wedged some junk down there temporarily to try to prevent the damper from rotating - my best idea was parts of an old inner tube - but no dice, the thing still turned.

Gah.

Edit: like one of these? http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0117/ Well, those would work if the Bit dampers had teeth in the top, but for some reason they don't.

2nd Edit: going to get impact wrench after work ... dang it. Loved the idea of not doing that ...
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:09 PM   #153
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as i understand this unit it like a fork within a fork correct?
this unit is sealed and carries all the oil & hardware within it.
do you add addional oil in the empty space left in the fork leg or is it now dry?
if it's dry does the spring make noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm
a question to those that have installed the Bitubo unit. To clarify in my mind on how the cartridge insert works. When you say that the unit is sealed, am I correct in thinking that means that the valving is sealed and not adjustable and not that the unit does not have orifices that allow the fork oil to enter the cartridge and work through the valving?
If the above is true, then perhaps I could extend optimal rider weight peramater by using my aftermarket spring and if the valving proved to be inadequate use a slightly heavier viscosity oil to get better valving action?.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:33 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffchri
I certainly don't have a tool, and not sure how it would work anyway, the top of the damper is round, unlike the OEM dampers that have teeth in the top, presumably to help with this sort of problem. There ARE flats on the Bit dampers, but they are on the other end of the damper, right next to the where the bolt is coming in and far far far away from anything I could use.

I'm wondering if the bolt bound just the tiniest bit on the way in and now just spins the whole thing no matter what I try. I just wedged some junk down there temporarily to try to prevent the damper from rotating - my best idea was parts of an old inner tube - but no dice, the thing still turned.

Gah.

Edit: like one of these? http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0117/ Well, those would work if the Bit dampers had teeth in the top, but for some reason they don't.

2nd Edit: going to get impact wrench after work ... dang it. Loved the idea of not doing that ...
Two options.
1) Drain any oil out of the fork. Mount the fork tube back on the bike. Mount the wheel. Now get some one to sit on the bike to load the front wheel and then use a tie down ratchet strap to compress the fork even more. Then use the impact to back out the bolt.

2) If option one fails then remove the spring an replace the spring with a holow tube the same diameter and slightly shorter. Then bolt the assembly together an apply pressure to the tube. The tube will not compress like the spring so all pressure is applied directly to the spring seat. Use caution when applyng pressure as there is no spring to absorbe it.

Of course try the impact first as that is easiest. Do the other options as a last resort and at your own risk.

Once the bolt is removed check the threads on the cartridge and lube the bolt and run bolt by hand into the cartridge with the cartridge out of the fork assembly. Make sure it threads all the way in with minimal effort.

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Old 06-19-2009, 08:32 PM   #155
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Mission accomplished!

Thanks DP and all - the impact wrench was the ticket, none of the other techniques worked. The impact wrench got the bolt right out, I lubed everything up and tried to do it by hand but same prob, so used the impact wrench again. Had to turn it higher than the low power setting, to give it enough speed to "outrun" the damper. Looks great now, though!

Rode around for 30mins on my local bumpy test ride with gratuitous gravel, chuckholes, whatever and it definitely felt good - INSTANTLY noticed how much less prone to pogo'ing it is when you're entering the corner rolling off the brakes. Harshness definitely gone, and went up and down some sandy/muddy/rock pile things that are a good test and found that the bars wanted to wrench out of my hands substantially less than they did with the stock forks. And yes, I had turned my steering damper off.

The only downside: now I can tell how crappy the rear shock is ...
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:50 PM   #156
johngil
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Wow!

I put 135 miles ( 80+ dirt) on "my new bike" today. What a difference.
I need to go about 5 miles to reach the freeway that leaves town. Other than the bike staying high in it's stroke up front everything seemed normal. I was a bit spun from a marginal week stealing money on the job and probably had a heavy right hand. My ABS kicked in at almost every stop. The horrible brake dive was now gone as well. This wasn't normal. I also couldn't turn for shit. I quickly determined that the bike was actually riding 2 or 3 inches higher in it's stroke up front and that the geometry had been changed enough to notice. There was a lot more weight going to the rear wheel. As I got off the freeway and hit the first canyon road, I really noticed something different was going on. My bike used to track like a road race bike, now it feels like a dirt bike. Imagine that. I think I need to show a little more leg up top for starters.
Next, I get to the dirt I was planning to hit. Nothing tough, but familiar. I knew what made the bitch cry from a few weeks ago. Within 100 yards I was impressed. Very impressed. I had put over 6000 miles on my bike at this point, but this was a new ball game. My big quarter ton bike was acting like a dirt bike. I found myself powersliding and brakesliding almost every turn. The control was now there with my large friend. My speeds were way up, as was my comfort level. I actually started riding the tires to their limits.
Now, the bad. The rear shock has to go.The forks now simply magnify the short coming of the rear shock. The same can be said for the TKC-80 on the rear. On the list now will be a new rear shock and a true off road capable tire. I'm sure a bent rim will come soon due to the higher speeds traveled.
I never bottomed once. Granted, I was by myself and was taking it easy in 90+ degree heat. I would have clunked at least a half dozen times with my previous set up. (.54 springs and 10wt oil)
If there were clickers, I would add one or two clicks of rebound, and that's it.
I think these cartridges will fit the bill for me. I knew an upgrade in the rear shock was needed, but now I will be in a hurry. The bike has been transformed!


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Old 06-23-2009, 07:37 AM   #157
jeffchri
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FYI, I pinged the "Export Department" contacts for Bitubo (Elena Valentini, very helpful) about the suggested method for assembling the forks. Here's her response. Looks like DP and others were right!
Hi Jeff,

I talked to our technician about your request and he confirms that the use of an impact wrench is the best solution.
I suppose that all mechanics who fit our products have this wrench in their workshop, so I think that also the other customer complaining the same problem won’t have any difficulties with their mechanic. Please let me know if they face indeed any problem.
Best regards.

Elena


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Old 06-23-2009, 07:40 AM   #158
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Jeff, if your springs are still out can you do me a favor and measure the length and width of the spring ?
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:51 AM   #159
jeffchri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Jeff, if your springs are still out can you do me a favor and measure the length and width of the spring ?
Sorry, the Bitubo springs are already installed, and the OEMs got sent to a "special farm" where they are going to be very happy ...
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:58 AM   #160
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Hyper Pro shock or any upgraded shock will really make this bike feel like a much smaller bike in the dirt. I can't believe the difference.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:15 AM   #161
johngil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Jeff, if your springs are still out can you do me a favor and measure the length and width of the spring ?
I measured the springs before I installed them. I wrote the length down and seem to recall 195mm. I'll look when I get home.

johngil screwed with this post 06-23-2009 at 05:47 PM
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:19 AM   #162
sturgeon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffchri
Sorry, the Bitubo springs are already installed, and the OEMs got sent to a "special farm" where they are going to be very happy ...
Tell 'em to say hi to Fluffy
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:27 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil
I measured the springs before I in stalled them. I wrote the length down and seem to recall 195mm. I'll look when I get home.
Thanks John.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:15 PM   #164
johngil
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Okay, I was on crack. The springs measured 480mm.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:27 PM   #165
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Thanks John.
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