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Old 06-10-2009, 08:36 AM   #91
DockingPilot OP
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:13 AM   #92
The Griz
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Given the design of this suspension kit, I actually don't see how fork oil weight would effect much at all. Given that no oil actually enters the nitrogen-charged cartridge unit at the bottom, and that the damping and rod action is not dependent on the oil. If you look at the picture, the only place oil resides is above the cartridge itself ( the gold part). Oil weight won't effect the movement of those springs and rods that much.

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Old 06-10-2009, 12:55 PM   #93
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...nevermind
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:30 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil
Just ordered mine. I'll re-spring if needed.
Great customer service! I gave a shout for Frank. I think they are very appreciative of you, Frank.

BTW, these are going fast! It wasn't clear when another shipment was expected.
Jeez John no pressure on me ha ?
Hey remember fellas, I havent flogged it offroad. My early assesment is they are much,much better than stock on short chop. Im pretty certain you guys are going to be happy with these.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:31 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Given the design of this suspension kit, I actually don't see how fork oil weight would effect much at all. Given that no oil actually enters the nitrogen-charged cartridge unit at the bottom, and that the damping and rod action is not dependent on the oil. If you look at the picture, the only place oil resides is above the cartridge itself ( the gold part). Oil weight won't effect the movement of those springs and rods that much.

I see Griz where you see 5wt.My bottles said 2 wt though.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:39 PM   #96
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
I see Griz where you see 5wt.My bottles said 2 wt though.
Yeah, makes sense that it would be an extremely light oil though. All it's purpose is in this design is to lubricate the springs against the inner sides of the fork tube. And to keep things above the cartridges from binding overall.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:07 PM   #97
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I weighed myself today.... 187 exactly.

Looks like it's "Bacon Lite" for me from now on.
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:13 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinJohn
I weighed myself today.... 187 exactly.

Looks like it's "Bacon Lite" for me from now on.

Life's too short for cheap bacon.
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:51 PM   #99
johngil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DockingPilot
Jeez John no pressure on me ha ?
Hey remember fellas, I havent flogged it offroad. My early assesment is they are much,much better than stock on short chop. Im pretty certain you guys are going to be happy with these.

No pressure at all. I will take the setup to my suspension guy and have the springs measured. I'm optimistic this will work as is. If not, it should be able to be re-valved if necessary or new springs made.
I've put in some calls to Works Performance for the rear. Their engineer that would handle the job is out for some injuries right now. If I don't hear back soon, trailtrick has an Ohlins available.
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Old 06-10-2009, 09:52 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
All it's purpose is in this design is to lubricate the springs against the inner sides of the fork tube. And to keep things above the cartridges from binding overall.
If lubrication was the goal, grease would have been used. Half of the spring isn't in the oil anyway!
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:29 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
If lubrication was the goal, grease would have been used. Half of the spring isn't in the oil anyway!
Not necessarily. Grease is too thick and would get pushed around and away from the parts that need lubrication over time, therefore effectively not providing enough lubrication for the spring against the inner wall of the fork tube at key intensive contact areas. Oil moves freely and continually provides lubrication indefinitely all over inside the fork tube. The fact is that fork oil in all motorcycle forks serves two main purposes:

1)Damping - through variably sized orifices controlling the flow of fork oil. The larger the orifice, the more free the flow and the less damped the fork.

2)Lubrication - of fork internals for longevity of parts.

And correct me if I'm wrong here....but oil is slick isn't? In this setup it definitely doesn't go into the cartridges themselves. So using subtraction, it's easy to deduce that the oil's function would simply be lubrication in this application.

The Griz screwed with this post 06-10-2009 at 10:54 PM
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:53 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Oil lubricates too. Being you're so smart, and for some reason you know that the oil isn't for lubrication purposes, then please explain why they even bother with fork oil then??
Bit grouchy, then?

As noted previously:

1. Air spring. Probably the primary reason for fluid in the fork tubes with the Bitubo dampers. All suspension benefits from SOME amount of 'progressiveness', and this is achieved (in forks) by compressing the air above the oil. No oil would make the air spring virtually unnoticeable since you're compressing 30 or so inches of air into 20 or so inches of fully compressed fork. Too much oil (not enough air) makes the air pressure ramp up too quickly (say, 10" of air into 2" or so of space) and the forks become harsh. Proper tuning of oil height provides the optimal mix of compliance in the typically used range (give or take the first half of travel), but the necessary stiffness (and to a degree, resistance to bottoming) deeper in the stroke.

2. Heat dissipation from the damper unit. Probably not the main reason for the oil, but certainly necessary, especially in heavy use. The sealed damper unit has far less fluid (and metal) than a conventional fork, but it does the same amount of work, and all that heat has to go somewhere. Overheated suspension fluid leads to accelerated wear on the hard parts, shortened life of the fluid, and less consistency with the damping.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:02 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
Bit grouchy, then?

As noted previously:

1. Air spring. Probably the primary reason for fluid in the fork tubes with the Bitubo dampers. All suspension benefits from SOME amount of 'progressiveness', and this is achieved (in forks) by compressing the air above the oil. No oil would make the air spring virtually unnoticeable since you're compressing 30 or so inches of air into 20 or so inches of fully compressed fork. Too much oil (not enough air) makes the air pressure ramp up too quickly (say, 10" of air into 2" or so of space) and the forks become harsh. Proper tuning of oil height provides the optimal mix of compliance in the typically used range (give or take the first half of travel), but the necessary stiffness (and to a degree, resistance to bottoming) deeper in the stroke.

2. Heat dissipation from the damper unit. Probably not the main reason for the oil, but certainly necessary, especially in heavy use. The sealed damper unit has far less fluid (and metal) than a conventional fork, but it does the same amount of work, and all that heat has to go somewhere. Overheated suspension fluid leads to accelerated wear on the hard parts, shortened life of the fluid, and less consistency with the damping.
I do agree with your air spring point. Fork oil height is important. I've sucked a few ml out of my stock forks to soften things up a bit. It helps!
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:13 AM   #104
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I received an e-mail from the Australian importer of these kits today and he can supply one to my door for $860AUD. That's quite reasonable but I have decided that money would be better spent on a set of progressive fork springs and some oil weight experimentation for the F8 and a new pair of shocks, new fork seals and a new air filter and alloy bars for my vintage motocrosser!!
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Old 06-11-2009, 07:23 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
In this setup it definitely doesn't go into the cartridges themselves.
Yes, i'm pretty sure it does.

That's why the instructions clearly state that it is necessary to pump the damping rod to achieve proper oil leveling.

And no, unlike you stated previously, the oil does not reside only above the cartridges. The majority of it actually resides below the springs.

If you had installed a set on your 800 before spouting off like you know it all, you would know these things.
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