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Old 06-02-2009, 02:48 PM   #1
Spearo OP
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HOT! - 690 Thermoswitch - All 690's run HOT!

First Post...
the mega-thread is looooooong although, I think I've seen every page.


My Issue:

The KTM 690 runs hot!

I need for this to stay a focused thread about where to get a 85/80 thermoswitch in the US? Every thumper forum has a topic started on this subject although, no US source is listed to purchase the component.

The bike is running as it was designed... HOT! There is nothing wrong with the cooling system, let's get that straight.

It is designed to run hot with the stock exhaust (catalytic converter) to keep the emissions levels low. A blistering hot catalytic converter ensures all the fuel is consumed.

I no longer use the stock exhaust as it melted anything that got near it.

There is a youtube video of a guy cooking an egg and pancake on the stock 690 exhaust. Normal? KTM thinks so...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiWjoXP01YQ

******************************************
Some facts about the 690 radiator fan thermoswitch:

It is not a 14-mm thread. Use a 24-mm wrench to screw it into the 690's radiator.

The switch in the 690 is manufactured by Nippon Thermostat Corporation Limited (NTCL) of Japan.

http://bayimg.com/iaaOhaaCE

The stock switch turns on only once the coolant temperature has reached 102-degrees Celsius. Who know what the oil temperature is at that point... breaking down...

The manual states normal operating temperature is 4-11 Bars as indicated on the gauge cluster. The stock switch activates the radiator fan at 11-Bars (102-degrees). The manual states 12-bars equals Overheating. No room for warning of a problem!

There are a few round-about ways to get a lower temperature switch:

Ebay:
The switch offered through E-bay turns on at 88-degrees Celsius. Cost = $60.

KTM West (Germany):
They have the switch I want to find via a US source. It is the fabled 85/80 switch. Cost = $60 shipped.

Does anyone have a KTM part number or a US source for the 85/80 thermoswitch to fit the 690 radiator????????

Stock Switch Pics:

http://bayimg.com/IaaOkaAcE

http://bayimg.com/iaAoLAaCe
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Old 06-02-2009, 02:58 PM   #2
Nowwhat
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maybe a stupid q but what is wrong with the one from Ebay?.....low quality?
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Old 06-02-2009, 03:17 PM   #3
Albie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowwhat
maybe a stupid q but what is wrong with the one from Ebay?.....low quality?
I guess he doesn't want to wait till it hits 88 degrees before the fan kicks on. I'm guessing that's why he wants one that kicks the fan on at 80 - 85.
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:47 PM   #4
Seth S
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The stock muffler has a catalyst inside of it so it is normal for it to get as hot as it does.
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Old 06-02-2009, 07:48 PM   #5
Spearo OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth S
The stock muffler has a catalyst inside of it so it is normal for it to get as hot as it does.
As stated, The stock exhaust has been removed and I simply don't care about the emission standard KTM designed the OEM system to satisfy.

I want the system running cooler to alleviate the thermal cycling of the 10w60 hence, Does anybody have a US source or part number equivalent of the fabled 85/80 thermoswitch with "18 mm" threads??

Sticky side down!

Spearo
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:29 PM   #6
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My suggestion is thus: take a digital ohm meter and measure the resistance across the stock temp switch at room temperature. Warm the bike up to 4 or 5 bars and then remeasure the resistance across the switch. The resistance will either go up or down. That switch looks a lot like the one in Saab 900's which is an NTC style....negative temperature coefficient sensor...as in I believe the resistance increases as the temperature does...looks like this:




Knowing the resistance range and the type of the sensor will make it easier to understand how to do a mod. Or just use the ebay kit everyone mentions....though in the big post someone listed a part number for the lower temp switch.
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:53 PM   #7
Spearo OP
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Hi Seth,

I am well familiar with electronics and I do not believe the switch is resistive. It is my understanding that it is a thermal momentary contact switch which operates due to the coefficient of thermal expansion which the mechanism internal to the thermoswitch is comprised.

I also believe that the thermoswitch listed by crazybrit in the MEGA-thread utilizes a 14mm threads and is custom drilled/tapped into an 18mm-threaded plug.


Update:
Seth... I just put an ohm-meter to the switch and it is (NO) Normally Open at room temperature.

Does anybody have a US source or part number equivalent of the fabled 85/80 thermoswitch with "18 mm" threads??

The search continues,

Spearo
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:08 AM   #8
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[quote=Spearo]Hi Seth,

I am well familiar with electronics and I do not believe the switch is resistive. It is my understanding that it is a thermal momentary contact switch which operates due to the coefficient of thermal expansion which the mechanism internal to the thermoswitch is comprised.

I also believe that the thermoswitch listed by crazybrit in the MEGA-thread utilizes a 14mm threads and is custom drilled/tapped into an 18mm-threaded plug.


Update:
Seth... I just put an ohm-meter to the switch and it is (NO) Normally Open at room temperature.

Does anybody have a US source or part number equivalent of the fabled 85/80 thermoswitch with "18 mm" threads??

The search continues,



SOOOO.... anyway...... I got the switch from ebay 6 weeks ago. Easy as pie, direct replacement. I spend time in the tight, rocky, hilly, single track, the fan now comes on at 7-8 bars. Engine never gets any hotter.
Overheating CURED, simple!!!!
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Old 07-09-2009, 02:02 PM   #9
Spearo OP
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Found It!

I ordered the E-bay thermoswitch and was not impressed with what I received. I asked for specific clarification that I would receive an 85-degree switch. The switch I received from E-bay came with a POS stamped O-ring and the switch is stamped 88-ON. Do not use the E-bay o-ring.

With the 88-deg switch the KTM 690SMC fan turns ON at 8-bars although, I feel ripped off. Ahhh… just another E-Bay customer!

For laughs I un-earthed my ATV out of the mountain of crap in the outside garage. There I found the answer to my reason for starting this thread.

Green – 88-deg ON : LTZ400
Blue – 102-deg ON : 690SMC
Red – 88-deg ON : “The Ebay Switch”

Stop getting ripped off by E-Bay and get a thermoswitch for a Suzuki LTZ400. The Suzuki LTZ400 is a Kawasaki KFX-400 is an Arctic Cat DVX-400. Suzuki makes it and sells it to Kawasaki and Arctic cat, It is a very good 400cc Sport ATV.

The Green switch in the picture is from my 2006 Suzuki LTZ-400. You should be able to get it from any Suzuki, Kawasaki or Arctic Cat dealer for $40-US. Use the KTM o-ring with it.

Down with E-bay…

DaNewbie





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Old 07-09-2009, 04:28 PM   #10
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are they really that hot???

I haven't seen 4 bars on my 2009 690R Aussie model...

have they (KTM) fixed this problem...
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortaygo
I haven't seen 4 bars on my 2009 690R Aussie model...

have they (KTM) fixed this problem...
Thats cause your havin winter down there now
Air temp here today was 104f thats = 4 bars
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:02 PM   #12
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All other issues aside, oil does not break down at 102 deg. celsius.

That is just about right for oil. You want at least 80C/180F and up to 120C/250F is okay, but approaching the upper end for non-synthetic oil.

I see 80C/180F all the time on my Ducati, and it is not unusual for to see 100C/212F or more on a hot day, especially in traffic.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:38 PM   #13
Seth S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzilla
Thats cause your havin winter down there now
Air temp here today was 104f thats = 4 bars

When I did the TAT on my 950 I saw temps around 110 degrees F in Oklahoma...the bike would actually stay at normal temperature as long as you were riding at road speeds. It warmed up quite fast once you started to work it though.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeMonkee
All other issues aside, oil does not break down at 102 deg. celsius.

That is just about right for oil. You want at least 80C/180F and up to 120C/250F is okay, but approaching the upper end for non-synthetic oil.

I see 80C/180F all the time on my Ducati, and it is not unusual for to see 100C/212F or more on a hot day, especially in traffic.
Yeah, but the 102C we're talking about is the coolant temperature, not the oil temperature. If the coolant is at 102C, then how hot is the oil? 110C? 120C? More?

And just because the fan comes on at 102C doesn't mean the coolant never gets hotter than 102C.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:37 AM   #15
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try this, found it over on KTMtalk site, it's for the smaller dirt bikes but with a little research you can determine if it applies to the 690 also.
"Go to the PartsGeek.com website. Click on '84 BMW 318i auto. Then click on 'Auxilliary Fan Switch' under the 'Cooling System' category. These are the correct thermo-sensors for KTM's. These BMW sensors are available at NAPA or Kragen or Parts Geek pretty cheap."

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/198...an_switch.html

Good luck.

bass_on_tap screwed with this post 07-11-2009 at 03:45 AM
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