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Old 01-23-2007, 06:14 AM   #1
Baffo OP
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R65G/S future and past modifications

First of all, don't get overwhelmed by the large posting, read all and reply to what ever part you want.

Ok so I want to modify my (unrestricted) R65GS and I could use some help/info
.

.
I ride onroad mainly and especially inner-city-guerilla, please read all before answering because camshaft, gearbox and final drive mods will each have an effect on the others.
A R65GS is actually much like the R80G/S, it has a monolever, brake caliper behind the fork, 247E frame, etc
Differences can be found here
A big example for me is this bike, if someone here owns it or knows who owns it, let me know

-exhaust, I ram a 38mm hole-saw in the exhaust, hoping to take out the last inner bit and leaving the outside looking original (hole-saw fit perfectly between inner and outer tube). (first I ordered some different sizes mainjets offcourse, which is hard to find out which partnumbers they have so if anyone needs partnumbers from 130-170...) This last bit of absorption pipe is ~20cm long and after disconnecting inner and outer at the end I found out that at the other side it is still connected inside as well...anyone has a picture of an opened up original exhaust end-pipe?. Problem is that the exhaust is way to quiet when driving ~110km/h on a bycicle filled dyke, they can only hear you 15mtrs away so had a few near-hits... So by just removing half or the complete last inner pipe I hope to give it just a bit more noise, rest of the pipe is reflection so not much gain in power anticipated.

-header pipes, I'm contemplating a dubbel crossover system, so one in front of the engine and the collector at the back of the engine, I'm under the impression that the one in front is for high revvs/street use and the one in the back for lower revvs/nduro/offroad. Something like this
There is a double also
But then you have to have 2 low end pipes also

Update exhaust: have found R65LS headerpipes and Ducati Supertrapp megaphones
.

.

-final drive, I'm thinking of using one from a restricted R65GS (3,44 9/31 versus 3,36 11/37) so the bike has a little less top speed but gets there much quicker, but the normal 1st gear will become very short and the 5th also, so maybe only combined with a longer 5th to have some higher top/cruising speed.

-gearbox, with or without this other final drive I think a shorter 1st gear will be nonsense on a street bike, but a longer 5th will improve always?

-camshaft, having found 7 different camshafts but apparently in 2 categorie's, probably because lift-hight. There are for instance 2 different 308 cams, one for R45, R65 and restricted 65's and one for 800cc's and up. And I've read some good reports about this mountain/enduro 296 cam, which is not a BMW original only aftermarket from 2 or 3 producers, but...will it fit my R65GS and not smash the valves against the piston? Or should I keep my 308...? Or get the restricted 256 cam, which supposedly is also good for higher revving engines.
Also, imagine a 296 cam, 9/31 final drive, and short 1st gear, 17 inch tyres with Michelin Pilot Powers... I'm afraid I'll have to learn how to Wheelie...

-front end, is going to be an XTZ one like on the Legobike with stabiliser, only then with 320mm brake discs from mxtec, caliper brackets from he-motorradtechnik and a Brembo 16x18 radial brake-pump...
Also still would like to know fitting top yokes/triple clamps from other bikes/makes/after market, found eurotech if there are others please let me know
.

.

-wheels, said earlier, 17 inches? front easily a 3.5x17" but the rear?

-carbs, allensperformance.co.uk sells Keihin CR Roundslide Smoothbore carbs, I'm looking at these because I heard that boxers don not run well with Flatslides, comments on sizing etc welcome

-tank, for esthetic purposes I just bought a 26ltr tank on ebay, which is going to be painted silver/gray, together with the rest all black I think is a nice combination, and the bike is going to be used as my (own) company vehicle, being a computer repairman onsite/athome.
.

.

-tyres, well for now I just ordered a set of BT45 from rodamoto.net in spain (check m out, really cheap) I would have loved getting Michelin Anakee's but because of the 18" rear wheel... and if there are going to be 17 inches front and rear it's going to be Michelin Pilot Power

-side stand, the one from boxertoko/CTI seems to be the best, the original is fixed to the wider R80+ bars and with my engine being 6cm smaller in width... Saw that an R45 has different bars but actually I don't want any bars, have also found motobins Surefoot, but also atached to the bars

-airfilter, K&N? with or wihout modified arifilter box lid

-headlights, xenon from LEDSEE?

-suspension, well keeping an eye out on ebay for a WP shock, and with or without an XTZ front-end there are going to be progressive springs in the fork.

What I've done so far since I bought the bike is; small gearbox overhaul, 1 new exhaust thread, new piston rings, overhauled the trigger-unit, replaced carb needles jets needletubes pre-atomizer, new valves and seats, 1 helicoil in carter for cylinder bolt and filled up the caps on the carb lids, replaced timing chain and tensioners, and got me an original windscreen.

So please, give me your opinion on my thought up mods or maybe you have better mods/ideas, or know of parts, producers/factories, etc

Baffo screwed with this post 01-24-2007 at 12:34 PM
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:50 AM   #2
jtwind
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Sounds like lots of mods. Didn't know there were that many cams available for the r65. From my experience and from others I've learned the r65 doesn't respond well to lots of modifications. You might be better off just putting a 800 or 1000cc engine in there. JT


Nice looking bike!



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Old 01-23-2007, 11:46 AM   #3
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front end, is going to be an XTZ one like on the Legobike with stabiliser, only then with 320mm brake discs from mxtec, caliper brackets from he-motorradtechnik and a Brembo 16x18 radial brake-pump...
Also still would like to know fitting top yokes/triple clamps from other bikes/makes/after market, found eurotech 31426 if there are others please let me know


I have a thread going that speaks to the triple clamp question.... what is the deal with the eurotech part? their web page is down.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:56 PM   #4
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@ jtwind: I will certainly NOT put an 800cc or bigger engine in there, I will loose the 6cm width difference which I will need when putting on 17 inches and cornering, and also to get the bike through the front door And when comparing specs I definitely don't need an 800
I'm not sure if these mods will be too much for the 65, I think I'm helping the engine actually by reducing the rear wheel ratio, but any links to 65 mods and/or troubles are more than welcome. I am contemplating forged pistons but I do not want to do what Duursma has done to their restricted R65GS with shortened 1000cc Siebenrock pistons etc. Although my list of mods/wishes is long, I do want to drive it and not race it or do a lot of maintenance. And am still not sure which of those cams will fit the 65 without resorting to modifiing the pistons.

@ SOLO LOBO: the top triple clamp for my R65GS should be the same as for the G/S and older bikes, so any links for different ones are appreciated, or mods, but especially (with) prices. I'm still not sure if I'm going to use the XTZ front-end and maybe just get 2 4-piston calipers and 2nd disc but than I (think) I need a better top clamp. I've noticed that another manufacturer has the same order nr for this kind of clamp (San Jose BMW and Eurotech, both sites work fine here) And which of the 120 threads you started do you mean?
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:22 PM   #5
Baffo OP
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Cam only reply:
For R45/65
256 11.31.1.337.922
284 11.31.1.335.182
308 11.31.1.335.181

296 Ro 267.7 at least from triebel, motoren-israel and maybe also from schleicher, scheffer edelweis, fallert

then there are those for 800cc and up
308 11.31.1.338.302
320 11.31.1.338.498
324 (unknown part nr)
336 11.31.1.336.393

http://www.mirotec.org/nocke_list.htm
http://lottmann-technik.de/247/Motor...urbelwelle.htm
http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1163620740/17#17

2 interesting pics:



and some 'general' links
http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jroche/road_rod.html
http://home.jps.net/~snowbum/engineinternals.htm
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/engine.htm
http://moragafalconers.org/BMW_336_cam/
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Baffo screwed with this post 01-24-2007 at 12:34 PM
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:29 PM   #6
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San Jose BMW / CC-Products made an 800cc kit for the R65 that kept the original short stroke. In fact, I think there's one listed for sale on IBMWR right now. However, I think an earlier response is accurate in that any major boost in performance comes at the expense of reliability.
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
I will loose the 6cm width difference which I will need when putting on 17 inches and cornering, and also to get the bike through the front door
Hadn't thought 6 cm would make a difference. Glad it doesn't in my riding. It's fairly common knowledge that r65's and to a lesser extent airheads in general don't respond well to engine mods. The r65 does seem to be the worst of the lot. I bought one that had bigger jugs, carbs,a cam etc. and never did get it sorted or remotely reliable. Finally got a donor engine for parts and put it back to stock and all was fine. In any case what would you gain for lots of money and work, 5-8-10 hp and maybe be able to run and hide from a 80's japanese 500 twin, if you are lucky. You just don't gain much. Airheads are reliable partly because they are undertuned. Anyway here is some info you asked for, Have fun. JT

http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/R65.beefup

http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/R65.faq.html

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Old 01-23-2007, 01:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
I will certainly NOT put an 800cc or bigger engine in there, I will loose the 6cm width difference which I will need when putting on 17 inches and cornering, and also to get the bike through the front door And when comparing specs I definitely don't need an 800
You will probably spend 2-3 times the amount of money modifying the R65 engine as you would on a decent R80 or R100 engine, and in the end you will have an engine that probably has worse performance and reliability. One of my friends calls this "gift wrapping a dead beaver".

The R80/100 engines are wider, but the G/S is pretty tall, which might offset the 17-inch wheel difference. Someone on this site has put 17-inch wheels on an R100GS. Check with him to see if he has cornering clearance issues. Of course there's still the front door issue. . . .
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:35 PM   #9
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I'm not into power gain, I'm into torque, and small(er) engines, cornering ability, inner-city-hooliganning, cross-town-traffic evading traffic lights and thus loads of speedbumps, not high speed traffic camera triggering. And for now almost completely stock it goes too fast way too soon (3rd gear already), so yes I want lighter pistons, but not 800cc, and yes I'm tuning the engine, but only just a little, to make it more agile, keeping it lean and mean. And maybe have a cruising speed of 110km/h, and 130km/h top. (I rarely ride on freeways, always take the side roads)
With a previous bike (Yamaha XT350) I only tuned it so that the cranck HP (27) was at the rear wheel, a balance between driveability and maintenance. And yes it took some money (wiseco, supertrapp, 17 inches etc) but it is great fun to drive (top at 127km/h said GPS) and still holds out maintenance wise (ok these are extreme though little mean engines with their 4 valves) O and with that little feisty machine I put the end-tip of the sidestand to the tarmac... (yes while it was up)
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baffo
First of all, don't get overwhelmed by the large posting, read all and reply to what ever part you want.

Ok so I want to modify my (unrestricted) R65GS and I could use some help/info, here goes

I ride onroad mainly and especially inner-city-guerilla, please read all before answering because camshaft, gearbox and final drive mods will each have an effect on the others.
A R65GS is actually much like the R80G/S, it has a monolever, brake caliper behind the fork, 247E frame, etc
Differences can be found here
A big example for me is this bike, if someone here owns it or knows who owns it, let me know

-camshaft, having found 7 different camshafts but apparently in 2 categorie's, probably because lift-hight. There are for instance 2 different 308 cams, one for R45, R65 and restricted 65's and one for 800cc's and up. And I've read some good reports about this mountain/enduro 296 cam, which is not a BMW original only aftermarket from 2 or 3 producers, but...will it fit my R65GS and not smash the valves against the piston? Or should I keep my 308...? Or get the restricted 256 cam, which supposedly is also good for higher revving engines.
Also, imagine a 296 cam, 9/31 final drive, and short 1st gear, 17 inch tyres with Michelin Pilot Powers... I'm afraid I'll have to learn how to Wheelie...

So please, give me your opinion on my thought up mods or maybe you have better mods/ideas, or know of parts, producers/factories, etc
Baffo
Call Siebenrock!
Buy an oppropriate Power up kit. Might have to find a R80 Heads and Carbies but they will tell what you need to make it go . .
Then buy a 32:10 Swiss R80ST final Drive Part No: ?? thought I had it . .
Then ride it and enjoy it
Pezz :)
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:39 PM   #11
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Hmm if I understand correctly I need to put a disclaimer in my sig:
"I'm mad. I do not, repeat, NOT want an 800 or 1000cc airhead"

No-one here thought when Dakar rules changed for twins to max 450cc, to soupe up an old R45 to a GS...?
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baffo
No-one here thought when Dakar rules changed for twins to max 450cc, to soupe up an old R45 to a GS...?
well Homey, R45's are as rare here as tits on a bull. If anyone has one it's gray market.

Torque to me means either of 2 things: appropriate powerband delivery in the low end, and a large rear end gear. I'd expect an R65GS (Euro military, yes?) to have adequate specs of both. Displacement to 800cc seems the most cost-effective way to increase torque to the rear-end you already have, given our US experience with the revvy 650 motor.

I have zero doubt i'm missing something in your query! But i think it has to do with our US-market user experiences. The 650 airhead motor in US-spec is a revvy, twitchy, throbbing acquired taste. It's less sexy than that sounds. Been there.

To us statesiders your dilemma is a no-brainer: rare G/S frame, 3-bolt rear end, G/S forks: up the displacement to 800 minimum and re-jet/re-needle the 32mm Bings
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Old 01-24-2007, 01:05 AM   #13
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You can buy 45's here cheap/easy. The 650 you discribe sounds a lot like a restricted version, which more or less is a 45 in 65 clothes. And by the sound of it in most of the replies I hardly dare to ask if anyone knows what this is: It's supposed to be called a Kölner topf and should increase breathing at higher revvs, picture is from an R45
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:54 AM   #14
Pezz_gs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baffo
Hmm if I understand correctly I need to put a disclaimer in my sig:
"I'm mad. I do not, repeat, NOT want an 800 or 1000cc airhead"

No-one here thought when Dakar rules changed for twins to max 450cc, to soupe up an old R45 to a GS...?
You obviously know what you want so why ask here??
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:56 AM   #15
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Yeah, just please send us pics.

R65g/s in general are grey market here like pinzgauers, sold by Swiss Army vehicle resellers as I understand it. If any made it here new, they were few indeed.
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