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Old 03-07-2010, 08:09 AM   #16
shua
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailace
The other day I was getting the X Challenge ready for Big Bend and decided to check out my throttle body for dirt and dust. I run a foam filter but after doing the west side of the TAT what could it hurt just to make sure. I found a small amount of dust built up on the throttle body but I think that was still from running the old paper filter. Anyway if you look on the front side of the throttle body about an inch down there is a small hole this is the opening for the idle control device. It looked like there was some carbon build up in the hole. I cleaned it with a Q-tip and alcohol it took about 5 Q-tips to get it clean. Put the all back together and the stalling is gone. My stalling would only happen on the first start up of the day when it was cold. I did some other things to the bike but this is the only one that had anything to do with the motor. Maybe someone else can try it to see if this will resolve there stalling issue and let us know. Good luck!

I will be pulling mine apart soon for some maintanance. I will take a look. Thanks.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:23 PM   #17
pope12
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G650 Cold Stalling Problems

Can relate to the cold stalling problems with the 2009 G650 x-country. I had mine back and forth to the dealer a number of times trying different things. I bought a new battery, a battery tender to keep it charged, only buy brand name 91 octane fuel. All these things helped, but it still stalled when cold or ran lean. The dealer was out of ides. I called BMW customer service finally at the suggestion of the dealer, since BMW had not suggested anything that worked either. Finally someone at BMW suggested downloading the G650 gs download into my g650 x-country after getting some pressure from customer service. To do this required some trickery, but it seems to have worked. It is four weeks later and I have not had a stall and when cold the bike does not run lean. Along the way the tech at the local dealership also found an almost ready to fall off terminal lug on the positive side of the battery. He soldered it for a secure connection. Hope this helps.
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Old 07-02-2011, 02:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailace View Post

Part 6 on the diagram is the idle air controller. It can get a bit bunged up with muck causing idle issues. Best bet is to remove the throttle body and the IAC and clean the end of the controller and the idle port with carb cleaner and cotton buds.

The pulse generator is a separate issue, caused by metal particles from the starter clutch shorting out the pulse generator. This may mean that the started clutch also needs replacing.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:18 AM   #19
ridin gaijin
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Yes, the problem still exists. Now that the weather is cooling off here, it's a daily hassle, and BMW's customer service on the issue hasn't improved. I'm bumping this thread to raise awareness for those contemplating buying this model, and also continuing to try to work with my nearest BMW dealer to implement some of the ideas suggested here!
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridin gaijin View Post
Yes, the problem still exists. Now that the weather is cooling off here, it's a daily hassle, and BMW's customer service on the issue hasn't improved. I'm bumping this thread to raise awareness for those contemplating buying this model, and also continuing to try to work with my nearest BMW dealer to implement some of the ideas suggested here!

I had the exact same thing and now my bike runs perfect everyday. Fix it - you will love the bike afterwards. Here is what fixed it for me:

1) clean the idle actuator and throttle body with carb cleaner (mine wasn't very dirty) - then run Seafoam through a few tanks of high quality ethanol-free gas to finish the cleaning.
2) remove the charcoal canister - google G650X Canisterectomy or similar to find instructions. Do it, don't worry about the warranty.
3) Install Leo Vince X3 pipe. I use the quiet insert.
4) reset the throttle body with the key on / key off full gas maneuver - Drone knows the exact procedure.

My bike has run perfect every single day since these changes and was a real pain in the ass, especially in the winter, before these changes.

The other things that greatly improved the bike for me were removing one of the throttle return strings (there are at least two - this is where the throttle cable ends, use a needle nose plier to remove one and leave it loose in there) and finally - replacing the stock grips.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:04 AM   #21
ridin gaijin
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Yeah, I need to do #1. I already have done #s 2, 3 and 4.

I do wonder about the correlation between colder weather and dirty idle actuator--it doesn't seem intuitive. Well, after this weekend we'll see!
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:03 AM   #22
ridin gaijin
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Puke

Update--the idle air controller and throttle body were clean as a whistle--as expected, this bike has never been off road. Carb cleaned it all anyway, put it back together, fired it up. It stalled within a minute. Fired it up again, it stalled inside 30 seconds.

LAME
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(past) 09 XCountry; 05 Tiger, sold after 32 dual sporting US states; and about a dozen on & off road Japanese bikes, all good in their own way.
"I consider it a victory if I change my oil without a catastrophe." -- Slide
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:19 AM   #23
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1) G650Xs are very picky about battery voltage. I had erratic starting because my battery was toast.

2) Follow the procedure in this post, it may well solve the problem. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=5702

#2 is really cool. I see you've done it before -- do it again!!
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:48 AM   #24
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I am wondering how many of you still have your sidestand safety switch still installed. It sadly determines if your bike will start or not. I'm not saying it's your problem, but it can make it hard to diagnose another problem if it is intermittently acting up. I have 12K on my 09Xco. I had expierienced these stalling issues at about 1500 miles, and also had it feel like the bike was cutting out on bumpy roads. I did away with the switch and have never had a starting/running issue since. I take that back. My stock exhaust also clogged causing poor performance due to excessive backpressure. It may be worth bypassing the sidestand switch just to see.

The more parts I replace with non BMW/Aprilla parts, the better my bike gets. SAD!

Good luck everyone! I'd say we are on our own as BMW seems less than willing to help. I think the warranty is useless, as I don't want you to replace my failed part with another part from your new/old stock that will fail again.
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:35 PM   #25
ridin gaijin
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Hey Geoffster. Thanks, yes, I tried that before going the carb cleaner route (hoping to not buy any carb cleaner, heh). Mike, I do have the sidestand safety still installed. The problem isn't that the bike won't start. It also dies while on the sidestand trying to warm up. Your solution is logical and sensible for you, but since I don't ride this bike off-road, I don't see the same kind of issue you did. Plus, it's happening now that the weather is colder, not with any change in riding habit, which might otherwise point me in your direction.

I'm reluctant to change the battery but can certainly see why it might make sense. Although, I've had bikes with electrical system faults before (I spent many an hour addressing my Tiger's) and haven't seen a weak battery produce a strong start but an occasional stall when under power.

...Next step: I'm genuinely curious why BMW would let this sorry state of affairs persist. Sent to Customer Service:

Quote:
Dear BMW Motorcycles,

I'm the relatively new owner of a BMW 2009 X-Country motorcycle. I have been riding motorcycles for over 25 years in the USA and internationally, and am encountering, for the first time ever, a performance and safety issue with a motorcycle under warranty that the dealer cannot remedy.

Your 2009 X-Country stalls when cold and sometimes when warm. The problem manifests in cold weather. I've learned, from my nearest BMW dealer as well as from the wider community of BMW owners, that my motorcycle is not unique in this, and that in fact owners have been reporting it almost since the model year first came out. Dealers have consistently relayed to owners that there is nothing to be done. In my case, my dealer (Bob's BMW in Jessup, MD) has told me the issue is a software problem that owners must wait for BMW to address.

This is challenging for me to accept. A high-quality modern machine, fed by electronic fuel injection, should not have such faults. Furthermore, it has been some three years since this model came out. Surely that has been enough time for a concerned manufacturer to correct a problem like this.

BMW must be aware of the liability you carry, given this is a well-known yet uncorrected fault, should a rider experience stalling in traffic or even off-road, and suffer injury or worse as a result. Can you please explain to me why this safety issue has not been addressed to date, and when the community of BMW X-Country owners may expect our motorcycles to be fixed so as to run normally?

Thank you,
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(past) 09 XCountry; 05 Tiger, sold after 32 dual sporting US states; and about a dozen on & off road Japanese bikes, all good in their own way.
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:27 PM   #26
XFrog
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G650X Stalling Issue

Guys, this subject has been run into the gound on the "Show us your X Country" thread. At the risk of I will repost what I compiled in the other thread. I had this problem and I searched the Web over top-to-bottom and fixed my bike, here are the recommended steps.


In agreement with what others have said, this is not 'normal' and is repairable. That said, it is not entirely uncommon either, mine did this exact same thing when I bought it used. I was able to fix mine and it starts, idles and runs as smooth as can be now. All the information you need to fix this problem is out there in this thread and/or the web but it does take some sifting thru and there is some mis-information out there. I would do the following steps in this order. Details on how to do these things can be found elsewhere. I did not do the things in green to my bike but I have heard they may help, I am doing the plugs and air cleaner the next time I do a full service but my standard components are working great.
  • Clean the throttle body and pay particular attention to the idle actuator mechanism which gets gummed up.
  • Vent your crankcase breather to atmosphere, instead of back into the airbox, and it will keep it from getting gummed up again.
  • Reset throttle position sensor & idle actuator positioning. I think these two are the exact same procedure done by turning the key and holding the throttle in a certain position. You can actually hear the idle actuator move and calibrate itself.
  • Run a can of your favorite fuel injector cleaner thru the bike. I use Lucas.
  • Switch to better gas...super unleaded at lower elevations. I use unleaded plus with good success at >5000' elevation.
  • Perform a canisterectomy.
  • Check for a kinked fuel lines between xtank and main, vent tubes, etc.
  • By-pass side-stand safety switch.
  • Install new Uni foam air fliter.
  • Installing a Booster Plug, or placing a 10K Ohm resistor between the air temperature sensor and the "controller", has worked on many bikes to promote stable idling by making the air/fuel mixture richer.
  • Install an Odyssey PC310 battery and put a battery tender on it occasionally to keep it at optimum performance.
  • Remove "tip over valve" assembly -- see next post for details.
  • Frayed speed sensor wire/pulse generator (same thing).
  • Faulty engine coolant temperature sensor in radiator. (worked for one inmate).
  • Install new iridium tip spark plugs.
  • Install a Leo Vince exhaust pipe.
  • A problem with your ECU or software? See BMW dealer and have them pull fault codes.
I think the issue is a combination of things as the problem got less-and-less with each step I performed. The more I read about the issue, and based on my own experience, I think the "canisterectomy" is one of the most effective fixes! I kind of have them listed in order of cost too, start with the easy stuff first as different people's bikes have responded to different fixes for this issue. Give it some time after making all the changes as the ECU seemed to adapt and it ran better after a few rides.

The stalling issue was a complete and utter annoyance to me and I spent a lot of time working on this. Please don't put it off, the bike is SO MUCH more fun when it runs right! I think it is even dangerous as I had it stall as I was pulling out into traffic and it scared the hell out of me.

Xfrog

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Old 06-05-2012, 09:48 PM   #27
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Tip Over Valve Removal

Moving to the G650X Stalling Thread for reference...

-XFrog

Originally Posted by donnh
I'm posting this for the record in case anyone is searching for information on this topic. My Xc had the same cold stalling issue everyone here has discussed. I never had time to look into it and decided I would probably just live with it. Then as part of the aux tank install I removed the vent assembly from the main tank and removed the parts that have been described as the tip over valve. Ever since then the stalling problem has gone away.

Assembly with the insides removed


The parts just snap out and can be saved and re-installed later if needed. I really have no idea why this helped but it did. Hope this helps someone.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:46 PM   #28
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Greetings from Oregon!

First I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed info and suggestions on these stalling problems. I took a moto class and got my license 4 years ago, but just recently bought an Xco as my first bike. I love the bike, hate the closed-source nature of servicing it. I've printed out this thread and others (it has been such a help having pictures to reference) and am on my own personal quest to defeat my G650X's cold-engine stalling issue.

I'll post my own observations here along the way. Hopefully it will help someone else down the line.

My Xco currently starts up and immediately stalls (1-3 seconds) when cold. The weather is colder now than it was early last month when I bought the bike- back then it would run for 10-20 seconds before stalling. I can either opt to continue starting it many times, or I can apply the throttle for about a minute to get it past the point of stalling. When I use the throttle, after a second or two the RPMs start decreasing and at this point I know the bike is about to stall. I increase the throttle to prevent the stalling, and after a few seconds the bike "catches on" / "pops the fuel bubble" / WTF is happening, and the RPMs skyrocket as the engine actually gets the oomph I've been applying from the throttle. My neighbors probably think I'm being an ass, when in reality I just want to start my bike. Now that the bike is running, if I turn it off and go to start it again it will usually exhibit the same behavior. The engine needs to be very warm for it to start right up and stay running.

The first thing I did was to clean the throttle body and idle actuator without removing them. In hindsight this was a pointless step, as not much additional work is required to just pop out the whole throttle body and give it a good deep cleaning.

Next (still stalling, no difference) I went down to NAPA and picked up one can each of Seafoam and Lucas fuel injector cleaner. I'm running the last of the Seafoam through the tank now. A tank or two later I'll add the Lucas. Hilariously, after half the Seafoam treatment, the stalling happens sooner after ignition. It could be the colder weather or that the treatment has knocked residue elsewhere but somewhere there's a BMW engineer laughing at me for not having a $6k computer and a way to communicate with the onboard computer as this could be completely unrelated.

I followed instructions to remove the throttle body and cleaned it out along with the idle actuator. This bike has been used on the dirt by previous owners so these components were pretty filthy. I used carb cleaner and Q-tips to get it nice and clean and then reinstalled everything. In the process I also cleaned off the injector which was filthy as well.

This made no difference, so I decided to change out the spark plugs with new NGK DR8EB 's. NAPA didn't have them, but Amazon does. I didn't have a thin-walled 18mm socket (though I will soon) so I had to remove the rocker cover (after removing throttle bracket) to gain access to them, and although this was easier than it looked, I was very cautious about dirt/grime falling into the engine from around the edge. I used compressed air and shop cloths to ease my mind. With the rocker cover hanging off to the side, I used compressed air again to spray filth out from the spark plug recesses. Oh, one thing to add, the plug wires are a pain in the ass to remove unless you have BMW's official tool (OEM 90886123561 [1] [2]). The old plugs came out easy, the wires are the trickiest part. Sadly the new plugs didn't make a difference in the stalling department. I didn't think they would, but for $8 for new plugs I figured it was a safe bet.

Most recently my focus has shifted to the engine coolant temperature sensor (OEM 13621703993). I got out my multimeter and measured the resistance between the top two pins (the only two in use when connected) when cold and after running the engine. I need to read it again to make sure. Cold, I read 3.92 K, and warm, 0.17 K. (The resistance increases as the temperature gets cooler.) I also measured 1.9 K to the ECU from the ECT plug. I need to take another set of readings before deciding on whether or not to buy a new sensor for $20 (more like $35 shipped) but it makes sense that this could be the culprit. Interestingly, I started up the bike with the ECT disconnected and it seemed like it was going to run perfectly- it didn't stall for about 20 seconds.

Last week I broke down and decided to buy a GS-911 to talk to my onboard computer, only to find out this week it's out of stock for another week or so. Being that the riding season is almost over, I cancelled my order. Figure I'll have plenty of time to tinker with it while the snow is falling. It would be great to find or borrow a used GS-911, but confidence is low.

On a positive note, last night marked my first night riding session AND my first ride into town. Had to get that ballot dropped off somehow!

Again, thanks everyone for posting what has/hasn't worked for you. I'll try to keep this updated to fight the good fight. I love this bike but can't accept the cold stalling as if it's a design feature. I'd rather save the stalling occasions for being in third gear at a stoplight, as I did last night.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:05 AM   #29
motoreiter
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I also have this problem, but have noticed that it seems like when the battery is freshly charged, above about 13, it runs great. I have a short commute (10 min) and moreoever the bike sometimes sits for a week or more at a time, and I think this tends to run down the battery, and the stalling becomes progressively worse at the battery drops below 13. It is easy to track this by showing battery strength on the dashboard.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:06 AM   #30
cpuover
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Originally Posted by motoreiter View Post
I also have this problem, but have noticed that it seems like when the battery is freshly charged, above about 13, it runs great. I have a short commute (10 min) and moreoever the bike sometimes sits for a week or more at a time, and I think this tends to run down the battery, and the stalling becomes progressively worse at the battery drops below 13. It is easy to track this by showing battery strength on the dashboard.
I've noticed increase stalling when the battery isn't topped off as well, but even with the BMW charger on it solid green (full charge) the stalls are still present with a cold engine.

Last night I performed the canisterectomy (following the excellent guides by Flo_Evans and kres). Used a vacuum cap ($8, set of 16) and a 3/8" fuel line coupler ($5, set of two). Getting the coupler all the way into the hoses was a pain, but putting a thin layer of new motor oil on it made it a slightly easier job. The vacuum line I was already familiar with after spending so much time around the throttle body. Used one of the clamps from the now-discarded "big hose" to hold the cap on it.

Started it up and it ran for a good 30 seconds before the stall. It hadn't been started for two days and was on charge for that full duration, so I consider this an improvement. The bike was also running with noticeably more power.

Next I'll be changing out my coolant ($78, case of 4 Engine Ice 1/2 gal.) and coolant temperature sensor ($20 shipped). I suspect this bike hasn't ever had its coolant changed (nothing in docs/service receipts) in the past 3 years, so it's a worthwhile endeavor, especially since some of the coolant has to be removed to cleanly take out the sensor. Also, I confirmed a resistance on the currently-installed sensor on a very cold bike, when the new sensor is reads OL/no resistance. So I'm hoping it is in fact a bad sensor here.

I don't like throwing money at the bike, but it's turned out to be quite a learning experience, and my DIY service manual (courtesy of you all) seems to grow by the week. Which is good thing, not just because it may add to the perceived value when I eventually sell it, but also because the knockoff workshop service DVD I bought on ebay from Canada has evidently been lost in the mail.

cpuover screwed with this post 11-16-2012 at 10:47 AM
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